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  • #31
    With Ted Ginn, you guys are giving him the benefit of the doubt. For me, it's "Show Me" time. He hasn't proved he's a good WR in this league yet.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by eaglesalltheway View Post
      I'm not the one making decisions, so maybe you should send this to Reid...

      You said he doesn't do these things, i.e. going across the middle, when there is plenty of proof that he has and does. Yeah he may not be the best blocker, but he does all he can do and has successfully gotten in the way enough to help break some plays for us. That is all we can hope for. DeSean can be a decent Red Zone target, though will never be a good one, I agree there, he just needs to be used better, implementing guick slants.

      As for his inability to beat the jam, he's made tons of progress there, he won't overpower many CBs, but he uses his quickness in both his feet and hands to beat it. I want people to jam him, because he was beating the jam all camp and so far in the preseason.

      The fact is, you said things that aren't true.
      You said he doesn't go over the middle. He does.

      He isn't physical, I agree, no one said he was.

      Problems with the jam? Jam him, I dare you. (lol)

      Blocking is not good, no one said it would be, but his effort has certainly helped us a lot

      No one said he was a great red-zone target...

      There are very few truly complete WRs in this league, but DeSean runs all the different routes asked of him, he is a complete WR in the fact that he can run any route asked of him, and contribute in many aspects of the game.

      You will almost never find a receiver who is very good in these three aspects of play: Receiving, blocking, and special teams. Hell, even our best WRs can only do two of these things, and DeSean is very good as a receiver and a returner. He isn't a great blocker, no one will debate that, but he has helped us in some plays with his ability to get in the way, for lack of a better word. My point for bringing this up... The greatest receivers in the NFL still weren't great in all three of these areas, but were great in at least two. In no way am I saying DeSean is comparable to the greats at the position right now, but as it stands at this moment, he is both a great returner and a great receiver, not to the level of the great, but he has the talent to further improve in all these areas.

      I personally would love to know how DeSean is a one trick pony...
      OK, I really like Desean Jackson, but just because I'm saying he has weaknesses, you want to make it out to be that I think he's some kind of bust. Get off your high horses. The guy as I pointed out has issues that he'll have difficulty overcoming. He's great at a lot of things, but a complete WR, he is not. ...maybe someday, but he'll need to work on it.
      Last edited by D-Unit; 08-24-2009, 07:26 PM.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by D-Unit View Post
        With Ted Ginn, you guys are giving him the benefit of the doubt. For me, it's "Show Me" time. He hasn't proved he's a good WR in this league yet.
        Just like what I'm talking about with DeSean, you can see changes in their game that show you they are making that next step. I'm not sure how much football you've played, but it is something I notice a lot because I played the game. Ginn has shown improvements in his route running, noticeable ones, and that will only help make him have a bigger impact with the Dolphins offense, just like DeSEan is doing with the Eagles.
        Nanna Bryndís Hilmarsdóttir is a goddess

        Rest in Peace, themaninblack

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        • #34
          Originally posted by D-Unit View Post
          OK, I really like Desean Jackson, but just because I'm saying he has weaknesses, you want to make it out to be that I think he's some kind of bust. Get off your high horses. The guy as I pointed out has issues that he'll have difficulty overcoming. He's great at a lot of things, but a complete WR, he is not. ...maybe someday, but he'll need to work on it.
          So I'm on a high horse now? Glad you told me.

          Listen this is serious, my mentality is more prone to make me seem more like a piece of garbage than on some high horse. Perhaps the internet is skewing how you are perceiving my posts, but in no way am I on a high horse or am I talking down to you. I am simply explaining things how I see and and why I feel you are wrong.

          DeSean isn't a complete WR in the area that he is monster blocker, a great returner, and a great receiver, but name me one WR who excells in all three aspects of that game. There isn't, but the great ones excell in two of those areas, and DeSean is good at both. In terms of his responsibilities as a receiver, particualrly his routes and route running, combined with footwork and technique, he is a complete WR. You will see that this season, though admittedly I don't know why you don't see it now, or at least the potential.

          Where we agree...

          He is small, light, is nowhere near Hines Ward as a blocker, and isn't an ideal red zone threat.

          That is the common ground, but without trying to sound like I'm on a high horse, you will be proven wrong when it comes to DeSean about many things, I have seen the things in him that you haven't had the opportunity to. I was at just about every training camp practice and have seen every snap he's played. You haven't, and maybe that's why you can't see it, but as someone who has been skeptical of him since he got here, and has seen as much of him as almost any fan, and almost as much as some coaches (lol), I can tell you he has taken the next step into becoming a better overall WR who can run any route asked of him against any coverage against any personnel.
          Nanna Bryndís Hilmarsdóttir is a goddess

          Rest in Peace, themaninblack

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          • #35
            Originally posted by eaglesalltheway View Post
            So I'm on a high horse now? Glad you told me.

            Listen this is serious, my mentality is more prone to make me seem more like a piece of garbage than on some high horse. Perhaps the internet is skewing how you are perceiving my posts, but in no way am I on a high horse or am I talking down to you. I am simply explaining things how I see and and why I feel you are wrong.

            DeSean isn't a complete WR in the area that he is monster blocker, a great returner, and a great receiver, but name me one WR who excells in all three aspects of that game. There isn't, but the great ones excell in two of those areas, and DeSean is good at both. In terms of his responsibilities as a receiver, particualrly his routes and route running, combined with footwork and technique, he is a complete WR. You will see that this season, though admittedly I don't know why you don't see it now, or at least the potential.

            Where we agree...

            He is small, light, is nowhere near Hines Ward as a blocker, and isn't an ideal red zone threat.

            That is the common ground, but without trying to sound like I'm on a high horse, you will be proven wrong when it comes to DeSean about many things, I have seen the things in him that you haven't had the opportunity to. I was at just about every training camp practice and have seen every snap he's played. You haven't, and maybe that's why you can't see it, but as someone who has been skeptical of him since he got here, and has seen as much of him as almost any fan, and almost as much as some coaches (lol), I can tell you he has taken the next step into becoming a better overall WR who can run any route asked of him against any coverage against any personnel.
            Whoa, let me clarify. I didn't mean to point you out as being on a high horse. Just the way everyone jumped on and started saying how they were high on Desean all along, he's my favorite guy in the draft, I knew he was going to be so good, blah blah blah... it was like they were propping themselves up. Which is perfectly fine with me, but I mean come on.... between the two of us, we agreed that he's got some things to overcome. The fact that I pointed those things out and got jumped on because of it.... it's why I said the things I said. I wanted the Cowboys to draft him. Anybody in the Cowboys forum knows how high many of us felt about him. I was sick that you guys got him at such a deal. We talked about him as a Top 5 pick! But anyways... we wanted him for specific reasons, his speed complimented TO. That was the thought. Him replacing TO was never a thought... for the reasons I noted before. I don't consider him a true #1 WR.
            A great weapon yes, but we're not talking Calvin Johnson here. Jackson has some limitations. Doesn't make him a bad player by any means. Just means he has to focus on taking advantage of strengths and continuing to try to improve his weaknesses. ...and there are some despite what you read here in this thread. lol.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by D-Unit View Post
              Whoa, let me clarify. I didn't mean to point you out as being on a high horse. Just the way everyone jumped on and started saying how they were high on Desean all along, he's my favorite guy in the draft, I knew he was going to be so good, blah blah blah... it was like they were propping themselves up. Which is perfectly fine with me, but I mean come on.... between the two of us, we agreed that he's got some things to overcome. The fact that I pointed those things out and got jumped on because of it.... it's why I said the things I said. I wanted the Cowboys to draft him. Anybody in the Cowboys forum knows how high many of us felt about him. I was sick that you guys got him at such a deal. We talked about him as a Top 5 pick! But anyways... we wanted him for specific reasons, his speed complimented TO. That was the thought. Him replacing TO was never a thought... for the reasons I noted before. I don't consider him a true #1 WR.
              A great weapon yes, but we're not talking Calvin Johnson here. Jackson has some limitations. Doesn't make him a bad player by any means. Just means he has to focus on taking advantage of strengths and continuing to try to improve his weaknesses. ...and there are some despite what you read here in this thread. lol.
              There are complete WRs in the NFL besides WRs like TO, and that is the point I am trying to make. My main disagreements are you saying he doesn't go over the middle and that he has trouble beating the jam. He has already shown in his games last season that he can and will go over the middle. He has shown in this preseason and TC (though you probably haven't had the opportunity to see it) that he can effectively beat the jam on a consistent basis. You may not have seen it to believe it yet, but I've seen it first hand, less than 20 feet from me, about 100 times (not exaggerating), and his hands are so quick, and he has just enough strength to take advantage of the man defending him and either avoid him or get him off balance or concerned, and beat him. I am not just pulling this out of thin air either, you can check my posts in the Training camp thread, I'm sure I posted these things somewhere.
              Nanna Bryndís Hilmarsdóttir is a goddess

              Rest in Peace, themaninblack

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              • #37
                Originally posted by eaglesalltheway View Post
                There are complete WRs in the NFL besides WRs like TO, and that is the point I am trying to make. My main disagreements are you saying he doesn't go over the middle and that he has trouble beating the jam. He has already shown in his games last season that he can and will go over the middle. He has shown in this preseason and TC (though you probably haven't had the opportunity to see it) that he can effectively beat the jam on a consistent basis. You may not have seen it to believe it yet, but I've seen it first hand, less than 20 feet from me, about 100 times (not exaggerating), and his hands are so quick, and he has just enough strength to take advantage of the man defending him and either avoid him or get him off balance or concerned, and beat him. I am not just pulling this out of thin air either, you can check my posts in the Training camp thread, I'm sure I posted these things somewhere.
                Do you think he or Maclin will end up being the Eagles #1 WR?

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by D-Unit View Post
                  Do you think he or Maclin will end up being the Eagles #1 WR?
                  there is no #1 in the Eagles offense, you have an X, Y and Z receiver.

                  DeSean Jackson is the Z, Jeremy Maclin is being trained as the X and Jason Avant is the Y but he will eventually be usurped by Curtis when he has to move to the Y when Maclin takes the X.

                  The Z is the playmaker, he goes deep more often and he is usually the faster guy. Ex- Marvin Harrison, Chad Johnson

                  The X is the possession receiver ex- Reggie Wayne, Torry Holt

                  The Y is the slot receiver.

                  There is no #1 which is part of the reason why the production is so spread out amongst the receivers.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Thumper View Post
                    there is no #1 in the Eagles offense, you have an X, Y and Z receiver.

                    DeSean Jackson is the Z, Jeremy Maclin is being trained as the X and Jason Avant is the Y but he will eventually be usurped by Curtis when he has to move to the Y when Maclin takes the X.

                    The Z is the playmaker, he goes deep more often and he is usually the faster guy. Ex- Marvin Harrison, Chad Johnson

                    The X is the possession receiver ex- Reggie Wayne, Torry Holt

                    The Y is the slot receiver.

                    There is no #1 which is part of the reason why the production is so spread out amongst the receivers.
                    I understand that. But who is Donovan's first read? For Peyton it was Marvin (Z), for Warner/Bulger it was Holt (X)... etc.

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                    • #40
                      He really likes to throw to DeSean

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Thumper View Post
                        He really likes to throw to DeSean
                        Haha. Yeah, I bet he really disliked throwing to Maclin last year. :D

                        Nevermind. I can tell this is going nowhere. He's damn good at what he does, I'll leave it at that.

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                        • #42
                          I'm lost, McNabb likes to throw to DeSean more right now especially considering that Maclin doesn't start... what are you talking about? :/

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Thumper View Post
                            I'm lost, McNabb likes to throw to DeSean more right now especially considering that Maclin doesn't start... what are you talking about? :/
                            Nevermind. Apparently the question I asked is way over you head.

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                            • #44
                              Kid's going to be a star. I pity Eagles fans who think he'll just be a #2/return man.

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by eaglesalltheway View Post
                                I too wanted Sweed, or even Kelly over DeSean, and man was I wrong...
                                Well, as long as you weren't one of those who said they'd rather have Beanie Wells over Donald Brown or LeSean McCoy.

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