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  • Originally posted by superman8456 View Post
    Take a step back from your computer, take your homer goggles off, come back and put a coherent argument together.

    You keep on saying he made all these left tackles his *****, but he lined up on both sides of the dline. I understand he made good plays. He did it all season long.

    You guys think me saying he's going to be a "6-10 sack guy" is a bad thing, but it isnt. All I'm saying is what I feel like he is going to do. This is one of those I'd be happy to be wrong about, but I have no reason to be believe otherwise.

    I've watched the tape multiple times. Great college player. Amazing motor, great strength, and good pass rush moves.

    Yeah its really not, Trent Cole is 6-10 sack guy.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by superman8456 View Post
      You keep on saying he made all these left tackles his *****, but he lined up on both sides of the dline. I understand he made good plays. He did it all season long.
      Carimi is a right tackle. Yes, that'd be the same right tackle that Graham obliterated with a speed rush to force a fumble which was recovered by Ryan Van Bergen and run in for a touchdown. Why yes, that is the same Gabe Carimi that is consistently listed as either the top or second-best OT for the 2011 draft.

      Bulaga is a left tackle. Yes, that'd be the same left tackle that Graham obliterated with a speed rush and an inside move to get a pair of sacks. Yes, in case you're wondering, that is the same Bulaga that got drafted in the first round by the Packers.

      I mean, yeah, we should definitely take your opinion on Graham over mine. It's not like I watched every single game the guy played in college or anything.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by bhaarat316 View Post
        Yeah its really not, Trent Cole is 6-10 sack guy.
        Trent Cole is a 9-14 kind of guy, he has gotten 34 sacks in the past three seasons and has hit 12.5 sacks twice while consistently rating as one of the highest defensive ends in hurries and QB hits. His numbers might even go up now that he has a potential impact pass rusher opposite him.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Sniper View Post
          Carimi is a right tackle. Yes, that'd be the same right tackle that Graham obliterated with a speed rush to force a fumble which was recovered by Ryan Van Bergen and run in for a touchdown. Why yes, that is the same Gabe Carimi that is consistently listed as either the top or second-best OT for the 2011 draft.

          Bulaga is a left tackle. Yes, that'd be the same left tackle that Graham obliterated with a speed rush and an inside move to get a pair of sacks. Yes, in case you're wondering, that is the same Bulaga that got drafted in the first round by the Packers.

          I mean, yeah, we should definitely take your opinion on Graham over mine. It's not like I watched every single game the guy played in college or anything.
          You also have an INCREDIBLE bias. You've seen a lot of him, but what do you remember? You remember the good because he was a bright spot on a very bleak defense.

          Brandon Graham showed up well in big games. He played well against good players, but there are reasons myself and scouts say things like "limited athletically" and "limited upside".

          Gabe Carimi = "2009: Started all 13 games at left tackle" via Wisconsin athletic site

          Comment


          • Originally posted by superman8456 View Post
            Limited athletically, limited physically, and often gets engulfed by bigger offensive linemen. Considering pretty much every offensive linemen he will see in the NFL will have a significant size advantage on him, he will either have to get better or try and get by off his elite motor.
            I love how people say Graham is limitted athletically, but performed right around the same at the combine as any of the other top DEs this year, who are labelled as physical freaks. Graham is shorter than the other top DEs in this draft, if you look back at his combine numbers, they are similar to any of the other top DEs. As far as his size... He weighs the same as Cole, and you know how he is doing. Like Cole, he plays with great leverage, and actually, Graham may be stronger than him, so with his stength and GREAT use of leverage, he does fine, hell, more than fine, he still dominates.

            Originally posted by D-Unit View Post
            I have to say... I would've loved Brandon Graham for the Cowboys. As either an ILB or OLB in our 3-4 system. As far as hit fit as a traditional DE in the 4-3, I don't think that's his best NFL fit. He needs to be an OLB like Woodley... we all saw what a difference the switch made for Elvis Dumervil. I think he's a 9-12 sack guy in the 4-3, but in the 3-4, he'd rip off a few more.
            I have to say I disagree with you. I know he played LB in high school, but if you look at him now, his physique and his style of play, he is the perfect fit as a 4-3 LE. I have no doubt Graham would be able to learn and adjust to coverage if he was in a 3-4, but he is much better suited in the 4-3 where he won't be asked to do that nearly as much.

            Originally posted by bhaarat316 View Post
            Yeah its really not, Trent Cole is 6-10 sack guy.
            Cole's only season with under 8 sacks was his rookie year. He had 8 his second year, 12.5 his third year, 9 his fourth, and 12.5 last year. If I remember correctly, he had an injury two years ago (ankle?) that slowed him down. I say Cole is a 10-12 sack type of guy, with the ability to get to 14, definitely not a 6-10 anymore. I expect Graham to have similar sack numbers, and actually, maybe a bit more. And like Cole he is great against the run as well, which has added value.
            Nanna Bryndís Hilmarsdóttir is a goddess

            Rest in Peace, themaninblack

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Thumper View Post
              Trent Cole is a 9-14 kind of guy, he has gotten 34 sacks in the past three seasons and has hit 12.5 sacks twice while consistently rating as one of the highest defensive ends in hurries and QB hits. His numbers might even go up now that he has a potential impact pass rusher opposite him.
              But he's, like, not 6'6", 280 pounds. There's no way he could be good at football.

              You also have an INCREDIBLE bias. You've seen a lot of him, but what do you remember? You remember the good because he was a bright spot on a very bleak defense.
              I remember me not really buying into the Brandon Graham hype before his junior year because he was a one-dimensional player who didn't hold up well against the run. I remember when Brandon Graham almost became a defensive tackle because he was a lazy ****. I remember Brandon Graham not being able to make it past three plays in a row because he was almost 290 pounds in the Capital One Bowl against Florida. I remember being pissed that Graham ate his ass to the defensive line because he was a five-star recruit at MLB, the biggest position of need for the Wolverines at the time (actually, still is.) I remember thinking that he was going to be a bust after his freshman year because I didn't think he'd be able to make an impact at DE in such a short time span. Yep, you're right. You know everything about me and what I think.

              Brandon Graham showed up well in big games. He played well against good players, but there are reasons myself and scouts say things like "limited athletically" and "limited upside".
              He showed up well in every game.

              Gabe Carimi = "2009: Started all 13 games at left tackle" via Wisconsin athletic site
              Mea culpa. So instead, he beat "Insert Badass Wisconsin OT of the future here".

              Comment


              • Originally posted by superman8456 View Post
                You also have an INCREDIBLE bias. You've seen a lot of him, but what do you remember? You remember the good because he was a bright spot on a very bleak defense.

                Brandon Graham showed up well in big games. He played well against good players, but there are reasons myself and scouts say things like "limited athletically" and "limited upside".

                Gabe Carimi = "2009: Started all 13 games at left tackle" via Wisconsin athletic site
                Sniper may be incredibly biased in terms of Michigan, but he doesn't let it effect him when talking about players. How many Michigan players have we heard Sniper say will suck in the NFL? A lot. (How bout that Obi Ezeh Sniper, haha). What I'm saying is yes, he's a fan of the team, but he isn't afraid to tell the truth about the players either.

                I'm a PSU fan and I've been a Graham fan for a long time. Also, wasn't there a time when you were a huge Graham fan as well?
                Nanna Bryndís Hilmarsdóttir is a goddess

                Rest in Peace, themaninblack

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Sniper View Post
                  But he's, like, not 6'6", 280 pounds. There's no way he could be good at football.



                  I remember me not really buying into the Brandon Graham hype before his junior year because he was a one-dimensional player who didn't hold up well against the run. I remember when Brandon Graham almost became a defensive tackle because he was a lazy ****. I remember Brandon Graham not being able to make it past three plays in a row because he was almost 290 pounds in the Capital One Bowl against Florida. I remember being pissed that Graham ate his ass to the defensive line because he was a five-star recruit at MLB, the biggest position of need for the Wolverines at the time (actually, still is.) I remember thinking that he was going to be a bust after his freshman year because I didn't think he'd be able to make an impact at DE in such a short time span. Yep, you're right. You know everything about me and what I think.



                  He showed up well in every game.



                  Mea culpa. So instead, he beat "Insert Badass Wisconsin OT of the future here".
                  Graham moved around a lot on Michigan's DL, you very well may remember him blasting Carimi, because I remember a few plays where Graham got the best of him.
                  Nanna Bryndís Hilmarsdóttir is a goddess

                  Rest in Peace, themaninblack

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Thumper View Post
                    Trent Cole is a 9-14 kind of guy, he has gotten 34 sacks in the past three seasons and has hit 12.5 sacks twice while consistently rating as one of the highest defensive ends in hurries and QB hits. His numbers might even go up now that he has a potential impact pass rusher opposite him.
                    how can he be a 14 sack guy? if he hasnt hit 14. he is a kind of a double digit sack guy, he did have one year of 9. And no you can't just give that one other sack to him, else why not just do it for everyone.

                    I don't like bunching stats like that either unless a player has been doing it consistently, if he had 8, 12.5, 10, 12.5 then i wouldn't mind. But bunching stats like that isn't always a good indicator of how consistent a player is, I know he is very good. Hell then Cro three year line sounds pretty good 15 ints in three years.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by eaglesalltheway View Post
                      Sniper may be incredibly biased in terms of Michigan, but he doesn't let it effect him when talking about players. How many Michigan players have we heard Sniper say will suck in the NFL? A lot. (How bout that Obi Ezeh Sniper, haha).
                      Not even playin', EATW. Don't ever bring up that scrub until he does something useful.

                      I'm a PSU fan and I've been a Graham fan for a long time. Also, wasn't there a time when you were a huge Graham fan as well?
                      Can't be. He's not 6'7", 290 pounds like the amazing Carlos Dunlap. Measurables always determine who the better player is.

                      Isn't it kind of funny that Graham is six inches shorter and 20 pounds lighter than Dunlap yet is much better at every facet of the game?

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Sniper View Post
                        But he's, like, not 6'6", 280 pounds. There's no way he could be good at football.



                        I remember me not really buying into the Brandon Graham hype before his junior year because he was a one-dimensional player who didn't hold up well against the run. I remember when Brandon Graham almost became a defensive tackle because he was a lazy ****. I remember Brandon Graham not being able to make it past three plays in a row because he was almost 290 pounds in the Capital One Bowl against Florida. I remember being pissed that Graham ate his ass to the defensive line because he was a five-star recruit at MLB, the biggest position of need for the Wolverines at the time (actually, still is.) I remember thinking that he was going to be a bust after his freshman year because I didn't think he'd be able to make an impact at DE in such a short time span. Yep, you're right. You know everything about me and what I think.



                        He showed up well in every game.



                        Mea culpa. So instead, he beat "Insert Badass Wisconsin OT of the future here".
                        I thought Graham volunteered to play DT? I read that he wanted to do whatever it took to see the field so he played DT when they were thin there. Didn't he also play ST just so he could get on the feild?

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by bhaarat316 View Post
                          how can he be a 14 sack guy? if he hasnt hit 14. he is a kind of a double digit sack guy, he did have one year of 9. And no you can't just give that one other sack to him, else why not just do it for everyone.

                          I don't like bunching stats like that either unless a player has been doing it consistently, if he had 8, 12.5, 10, 12.5 then i wouldn't mind. But bunching stats like that isn't always a good indicator of how consistent a player is, I know he is very good. Hell then Cro three year line sounds pretty good 15 ints in three years.
                          He can be a 14 sack guy because he had two years where he was 1.5 sacks away. It definitely isn't out of the realm of possibilites at all. And when you consider how many sacks he shared (probably at least 3) he could already have 14. He isn't far away from it, and I think in the future we should expect 10-14 sacks out of Cole per season.
                          Nanna Bryndís Hilmarsdóttir is a goddess

                          Rest in Peace, themaninblack

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Sniper View Post
                            Not even playin', EATW. Don't ever bring up that scrub until he does something useful.


                            Can't be. He's not 6'7", 290 pounds like the amazing Carlos Dunlap. Measurables always determine who the better player is.

                            Isn't it kind of funny that Graham is six inches shorter and 20 pounds lighter than Dunlap yet is much better at every facet of the game?
                            See superman? lol

                            I love that Graham is able to do what he is, as a shorter person myself, I root for shorter guys. Its a result of the hard work.
                            Nanna Bryndís Hilmarsdóttir is a goddess

                            Rest in Peace, themaninblack

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by bhaarat316 View Post
                              I thought Graham volunteered to play DT? I read that he wanted to do whatever it took to see the field so he played DT when they were thin there. Didn't he also play ST just so he could get on the feild?
                              No. Here's what happened. Graham came to Michigan at about 290ish. In the words of major UM bust DT Terrance Taylor, "you're one Reese's Piece away from playing tackle." Graham shed some of the weight but was still a big dude. He went to DE so he could play right away instead of cutting down to the low 250s.

                              ST, I don't know. Maybe RR put him out there to add sex to the special teams. Two blocked punts and returned another for a TD.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Sniper View Post
                                But he's, like, not 6'6", 280 pounds. There's no way he could be good at football.
                                Not my argument. I've already said numerous times he is a very good football player.


                                I remember me not really buying into the Brandon Graham hype before his junior year because he was a one-dimensional player who didn't hold up well against the run. I remember when Brandon Graham almost became a defensive tackle because he was a lazy ****. I remember Brandon Graham not being able to make it past three plays in a row because he was almost 290 pounds in the Capital One Bowl against Florida. I remember being pissed that Graham ate his ass to the defensive line because he was a five-star recruit at MLB, the biggest position of need for the Wolverines at the time (actually, still is.) I remember thinking that he was going to be a bust after his freshman year because I didn't think he'd be able to make an impact at DE in such a short time span. Yep, you're right. You know everything about me and what I think.
                                I understand you know his history and what he has done for Michigan. I also know that he went through a lot during his time at Michigan, but you have an infatuation with the Brandon Graham that we know now.


                                He showed up well in every game.
                                I dont particularly remember him doing anything in the Notre Dame game, but then again I was amazed Michigan found some offense.


                                Mea culpa. So instead, he beat "Insert Badass Wisconsin OT of the future here".
                                Why do people here think I'm trying to knock the guy down? I just dont think he is going to be as productive of an NFL player as you guys think he will.

                                Edit: Do you guys expect me to say "there is nothing wrong with his game, but he is only going to be a 6-10 sack a year for his career kind of guy"?

                                Doube Edit: His flaws are not as bad as I might make them sound, but thats only because I'm magnifying them by pointing them out
                                Last edited by superman8456; 04-28-2010, 11:11 PM.

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