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Jeremy Maclin or DeSean Jackson?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Thumper View Post
    when you look at their stats, Jeremy had the better rookie season.
    Um, except for the time where he didn't.

    DeSean- 62/912/14.7/2
    Maclin- 55/762/13.9/4

    Tack on another 440 yards and one touchdown of punt returns, and no, Maclin did not have a better rookie season.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by cunningham06 View Post
      As of RIGHT NOW I would say Desean, with Maclin not far behind. I think Maclin will surpass him soon as a more complete receiver, but if I had to pick one for a game tomorrow, I'd take DJax.

      A key thing to remember is that Desean did really well his rookie season without a real established receiving threat to take the focus off him like he did for Maclin last season. There's no doubt about it that Desean made Maclin's job easier. It was the games where teams sold out to stop Desean where Maclin had his biggest games.

      So as of right now I'd say Desean but it's close, and it's in no way ridiculous to say that Maclin's better. They are very different, DJax excels in certain aspects, but Maclin is more of a prototype #1.
      Fair enough, you're entitled to your opinion, I'm entitled to mine and like I said, since nobody else wants to hold it down for Desean, I will. The point you make about focal points of a defense, that's easier said than done though. It changes everything.

      If Dmac becomes half as good as Eagle fans are projecting (let's say the equivalent of a Austin Miles), then Desean won't draw nearly as much attention and will not be stopped. He's never played with another true #1 on his other side. Let's put it this way, when Desean was welcoming rumors that Boldin might come to the Eagles, I knew exactly why he wanted that.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Sniper View Post
        Um, except for the time where he didn't.

        DeSean- 62/912/14.7/2
        Maclin- 55/762/13.9/4

        Tack on another 440 yards and one touchdown of punt returns, and no, Maclin did not have a better rookie season.
        Except for the time he did... Maclin missed 4 games, the Carolina game, the Giants game, the Saints game and the 49ers game.

        Maclin Per Game stats:
        4.41 catches a game, 62.5 yards a game and .3 touchdowns a game

        Jackson's per game stats:
        4.1 catches a game, 60.8 yards a game and .1 touchdowns a game

        Yeah...

        And punt returns don't count because as you said in your first post in this thread, "don't factor in punt returns".

        Comment


        • #19
          Ugh, I can't wait for the Cowboys to play the Eagles again, because all I hear is "did you see how Maclin destroyed Jenkins in the playoff game wozers!1!!1!!!"


          Look, dude had a nice game, Jenkins bit on some underneath stuff, slipped on some trick plays involving Vick, it just wasn't a good game for him and stat wise it was amazing for Maclin. That said, nobody would like it, if we used one game where Jenkins was shut down and had a few picks in every argument as to why he was going to be a top 5 CB in the league.


          I hate to use this argument(and hate when other people do it too), but that wasn't even a traditional play where Vick threw that 80 yard TD to Maclin. He started like it was a run, Jenkins ran up assuming it was, and slipped getting back, take that away and dude had like 70 yards, a solid game. It's not like it was a deep double move downfield on an obvious passing down where Maclin just shook Jenkins out of his shoes so ridiculously.


          Nobody wants to bring up how Maclin was being scary at the end of the game prior and alligator arming passes all game like he had no heart though. I like Maclin alot, but it's a little annoying to see people continually bring up that game like he destroyed Jenkins knowing 80 yards came off of a Wildcat fake run. It's ok to bring it up, but how about not basing entire arguments off of it.



          That said, I still have to go with Jackson at this point. Haven't seen nearly enough from Maclin to say he'll be better then Jackson. Dude is ridiculous, the amount of TD's he had over 50 yards, the way he seperates from defenders, the way he can take a short slant to the house, he's nasty and looks like he's turning into a younger version of Car Steve Smith.


          Maclin I like alot and think will be good, always liked his skillset at Missouri, but it would be a blind leap of faith for me to say he'd be better then what Jackson will be.


          Scary thing is, Jackson isn't even as good as he's going to get yet, and when you look at his season last year it's all the more ridiculous.



          Also Maclin's stats vs Dallas the other games:



          3/44/0
          4/58/0



          But your right Thumper, Maclin made Dallas his ***** zomgzz!!!!1!!


          You have got the be the most annoying person on this earth, I'd rather listen to arguments by T-new wherever he is then to have you be a raging homer and be in denial about it.
          Last edited by LonghornsLegend; 04-06-2010, 09:23 PM.





          Originally posted by Scott Wright
          I guarantee that if someone picks Cam Newton in the Top 5 they will regret it.

          Comment


          • #20
            Haha wow, if you're going to do that, then call out Superman and Sniper on the same thing LL because they've done the same thing.

            By your logic I could say that Mike Jenkins really didn't have good games against Maclin the first two times because Maclin dropped passes so clearly Jenkins had nothing to do with that. That is just a stupid argument, you know kind of like saying Maclin wasn't that good because Mike Jenkins bit on some underneath stuff.

            Crappy argument, you can't come on here and call me a homer and then go on and make crazy ass homer excuses for Mike Jenkins.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Thumper View Post
              Wow mj.... Did you see DeSean get taken out of games against the Cowboys? Don't you think people are going to figure that out? They're going to look at the tape and say "Hey, if we do this, we can stop one of the most explosive players in the nfl". DeSean needs to adjust his game if he wants to keep up because right now if other teams figure out what Dallas did, DeSean is going to have a down year. Jeremy Maclin is a guy who can do everything, he can go deep like DeSean or he can go underneath without worrying about him being snapped. Jeremy Maclin made the Dallas Cowboys his ***** and he was mighty impressive doing it and when you look at their stats, Jeremy had the better rookie season.
              Oh yeah 3 catches for 44 yards, 4 catches for 58 yards is ripping it up there. He had one good game and sadly it was more Mike Vick then Maclin running as Vick ran around duping the safeties for a 76 yard play take that out its a good game of 6 catches 70 yards. Like the 04 game where Mcnabb hit Mitchell after scrambling around so take that with a grain of salt. Fluky plays doesn't mean Those are not good numbers but all 3 games are losses so really kinda a moot point. Winning a game and giving up some yards to a teams number 2 receiver isn't getting to be made a ***** in my book.

              Really its going to be up to the teams to pick their poison. Any team really can take most receivers out of a game if they adjust their coverages to how they want. What is really going to make or break them is developing a bit more of a running game to get more one on one coverages.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by LonghornsLegend View Post
                It's not like it was a deep double move downfield on an obvious passing down where Maclin just shook Jenkins out of his shoes so ridiculously.

                the way he seperates from defenders, the way he can take a short slant to the house...

                Scary thing is, Jackson isn't even as good as he's going to get yet, and when you look at his season last year it's all the more ridiculous.
                Thank you. These are the little things I'm talking about, not necessarily things that show up on the stat line. Quite frankly, at times Maclin's double move and route running is below average and doesn't fool anyone, but I don't want to get into bashing Maclin and I have no doubt he will continue to improve. I just want Desean to get the respect he deserves.

                Like I said on my first post, put desean on the other side of Austin, and it's just lights out, but my point was more that Austin activates the passing offense and puts pressure on the defense in a manner similar to Desean.

                Also, just a little revisionist history, but here are Desean's stats his last year at Cal vs. Lavelle Hawkins, the #2 receiver that year who's now riding pine for the Titans:

                Desean: 65 rec. 762 yards, 11.7 average, 6tds.
                Hawkins: 72 rec. 872 yards, 12.1 average, 6tds.

                Perfect example of why stats don't mean ****. By Desean's 3rd year, he faced double and triple teams like 80-90% of the time. Say what you want about Pete Carrol and USC, but Pete would throw 3 defenders on Desean with a DB, safety, and linebacker and that's how he stopped Desean - it's not fair, but that's football. It's really not rocket science and mark my words, the Cowboys will continue to stop Desean. If the eagles are going to beat Dallas, the offense HAS to come from somewhere else. When you start trying to force balls into that kind coverage, all kinds of bad things start happening, including serious injury.

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                • #23
                  Im glad we have both on this squad, and dont have to make an election. Mac, showed at the end of the season why the Eagles traded to grab him,and Desean, was so good he made it to the pro bowl twice in the same year, lol. The games against the chiefs and Saints, Djax showed he can play underneath and make cathes into yac.

                  Sig by Bone Krusher

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by frubulubu View Post
                    Im glad we have both on this squad, and dont have to make an election. Mac, showed at the end of the season why the Eagles traded to grab him,and Desean, was so good he made it to the pro bowl twice in the same year, lol. The games against the chiefs and Saints, Djax showed he can play underneath and make cathes into yac.
                    Not the best examples, but DeSean has shown it against other teams as well. Anytime he has space he is a threat.
                    Nanna Bryndís Hilmarsdóttir is a goddess

                    Rest in Peace, themaninblack

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                    • #25
                      DeSean Jackson all the way to me.
                      The whole world loves neophyte athletic tight end Jimmy Graham from Miami with the 95th pick. "Best pick in the draft,'' one AFC coach told me. "Give him time, and in that offense, he'll be better than [Jeremy] Shockey by the start of next year.''

                      “We know that no matter the adversity, be it the lockout, be it the suspension or be it a hurricane, our men will pull together and defend the honor of this city. We’ve shown we’ve been able to do that.” - Jabari Greer

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by LonghornsLegend View Post
                        Ugh, I can't wait for the Cowboys to play the Eagles again, because all I hear is "did you see how Maclin destroyed Jenkins in the playoff game wozers!1!!1!!!"


                        Look, dude had a nice game, Jenkins bit on some underneath stuff, slipped on some trick plays involving Vick, it just wasn't a good game for him and stat wise it was amazing for Maclin. That said, nobody would like it, if we used one game where Jenkins was shut down and had a few picks in every argument as to why he was going to be a top 5 CB in the league.

                        I hate to use this argument(and hate when other people do it too), but that wasn't even a traditional play where Vick threw that 80 yard TD to Maclin. He started like it was a run, Jenkins ran up assuming it was, and slipped getting back, take that away and dude had like 70 yards, a solid game. It's not like it was a deep double move downfield on an obvious passing down where Maclin just shook Jenkins out of his shoes so ridiculously.


                        Nobody wants to bring up how Maclin was being scary at the end of the game prior and alligator arming passes all game like he had no heart though. I like Maclin alot, but it's a little annoying to see people continually bring up that game like he destroyed Jenkins knowing 80 yards came off of a Wildcat fake run. It's ok to bring it up, but how about not basing entire arguments off of it.



                        That said, I still have to go with Jackson at this point. Haven't seen nearly enough from Maclin to say he'll be better then Jackson. Dude is ridiculous, the amount of TD's he had over 50 yards, the way he seperates from defenders, the way he can take a short slant to the house, he's nasty and looks like he's turning into a younger version of Car Steve Smith.


                        Maclin I like alot and think will be good, always liked his skillset at Missouri, but it would be a blind leap of faith for me to say he'd be better then what Jackson will be.


                        Scary thing is, Jackson isn't even as good as he's going to get yet, and when you look at his season last year it's all the more ridiculous.



                        Also Maclin's stats vs Dallas the other games:



                        3/44/0
                        4/58/0



                        But your right Thumper, Maclin made Dallas his ***** zomgzz!!!!1!!


                        You have got the be the most annoying person on this earth, I'd rather listen to arguments by T-new wherever he is then to have you be a raging homer and be in denial about it.
                        LL I think you should understand that the NFL, like much other professional sports, is a "what have you done for me lately" kind of business. Most fans last impressions of players during that season were the last ones that they saw.

                        The last game I saw the Eagles play in, Maclin tore it up. Of course I am going to have high expectations for him next season. I can only think he is going to get better from his rookie year, even though it might never happen.

                        This also relates to some of the fans feelings towards McNabb and Sheldon Brown, because they both had a poor end of the season.

                        I also believe that Maclin has progressed farther in his rookie season than DeSean did. DeSean came in with a MUCH higher floor than Maclin did.

                        Funny thing about Mike Jenkins is that he loves to call out players that he doesnt even have to cover. I remember him talking all that trash to DeSean via twitter, but not once did I see him line up opposite DeSean.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by superman8456 View Post
                          LL I think you should understand that the NFL, like much other professional sports, is a "what have you done for me lately" kind of business. Most fans last impressions of players during that season were the last ones that they saw.

                          The last game I saw the Eagles play in, Maclin tore it up. Of course I am going to have high expectations for him next season. I can only think he is going to get better from his rookie year, even though it might never happen.

                          This also relates to some of the fans feelings towards McNabb and Sheldon Brown, because they both had a poor end of the season.

                          I also believe that Maclin has progressed farther in his rookie season than DeSean did. DeSean came in with a MUCH higher floor than Maclin did.

                          Funny thing about Mike Jenkins is that he loves to call out players that he doesnt even have to cover. I remember him talking all that trash to DeSean via twitter, but not once did I see him line up opposite DeSean.


                          I'm a very huge fan of Maclin, no denying that. I just have a problem with everyone talking about "Maclin made Jenkins his ***** that game" etc etc, when that's really not the case. Maclin had 1 good play vs Dallas out of 3 games, and it came on a trick play where Vick acted as if he was going to run the ball, I don't think that's worth saying Jenkins was dominated honestly.


                          And Jenkins is a trash talker yea, but he's no more right then DeSean Jackson who talked trash on twitter for an entire week and followed it up with a 2 catch game or something.


                          I think Maclin has a very bright future, and will be very good, just disagree with the assessment on people adding in about the playoff performance.



                          Crappy argument, you can't come on here and call me a homer and then go on and make crazy ass homer excuses for Mike Jenkins.
                          What crazy ass homer excuse did I make for Jenkins? Please, point that out for me? Because alot of times you like to talk out of your ass and make something out of nothing.


                          Jenkins was beat fair and square on that play, no excuses about it, but for you to act like Maclin put on some kind of clinic vs Dallas is completely false. He had ONE big play in 3 games, and we have already gone over how that play was started, great play call, but silly to give all the credit to Maclin, or act like Jenkins is some scrub for getting beat on a wildcat fake play.


                          You can make an argument for Maclin all you want, nobody denied he is a legit NFL WR, but to continually use that game as some sort of evidence is ridiculous.





                          Originally posted by Scott Wright
                          I guarantee that if someone picks Cam Newton in the Top 5 they will regret it.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by LonghornsLegend View Post
                            Look, dude had a nice game, Jenkins bit on some underneath stuff, slipped on some trick plays involving Vick, it just wasn't a good game for him and stat wise it was amazing for Maclin. That said, nobody would like it, if we used one game where Jenkins was shut down and had a few picks in every argument as to why he was going to be a top 5 CB in the league.
                            There thats your homer argument, saying that Maclin's game wasn't that impressive because it was a trick play and because Jenkins bit on underneath stuff, Maclin beating Jenkins had nothing to do with the Maclin playing well, it was all Jenkins messing up and had Jenkins been on his game he would've shut down Maclin. Those are the implications of that statement.

                            Using your logic, Jenkins first two games weren't that impressive since Maclin dropped some balls, ran some bad routes and McNabb missed him a couple times. Jenkins had nothing to do with Maclin's lack of success, it was all Maclin's fault he didn't produce and it had nothing to do with the fact that Jenkins actually played well in those game.

                            See how dumb that sounds? Jenkins and Hamlin struggled with Maclin all night that game, Maclin had a good game, is that so hard for you to admit? Sure a big play came on a gadget-ish play, but what about those times where Maclin got into a shoving match with Hamlin or the time where Maclin baited Hamlin into getting an unnecessary roughness penalty, or the time where Maclin shoved Jenkins into Jason Peters. Sure those aren't receiving plays (although 2 were preceded by receptions IIRC) but it showed fight and heart and that was something only Maclin was showing for the Eagles. And he played a really good game and the secondary had a tough time with him. Jenkins did well the first two times, Maclin did well the third time, the tally total is 2-1 in favor of Jenkins.

                            The battles between Jenkins and Maclin are something I look forward to in the future, especially as Maclin improves because Jenkins had his way the first two games. They're both physical, confident players and I don't mean to slight Jenkins although I hate him, because he is a good player. But can you just admit that Maclin actually did have a really good game? Its not that hard to see.

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                            • #29
                              Using your logic, Jenkins first two games weren't that impressive since Maclin dropped some balls, ran some bad routes and McNabb missed him a couple times. Jenkins had nothing to do with Maclin's lack of success, it was all Maclin's fault he didn't produce and it had nothing to do with the fact that Jenkins actually played well in those game.

                              I guess you fail to see the huge difference between trying to discredit two ENTIRE games, and one single play huh? I'm talking about one play that was a trick play, your talking about two full games of body of work.


                              Also Maclin dropping balls, running bad routes etc is correlated directly to Maclin, nobody else. I also didn't take credit away from Maclin for that play at all, my point was that you shouldn't be talking about Maclin destroying Jenkins when dude had one big play in 3 games vs Dallas.


                              What's so hard to understand about that? Everyone gets beat, I have no problems with it. But if you want to ignore the fact that the entire defense bit on Vick thinking it was a run then that's perfectly fine, but Maclin is fast as hell and was wide open in a seam route. Again if you want to hold onto that play as your saving grace that's not a problem at all, you can also keep throwing around homer arguments for Jenkins on my behalf to make yourself look better.


                              When DeSean Jackson scored on his numerous 50+ yd TD's this season they were legit, people knew it was a pass, and he just outran everyone trying their hardest to cover him. You saying Maclin made Jenkins his ***** is just the homer in you which is normal coming from you now and I don't expect anything less.


                              I don't want to start a huge argument over it in your team boards though, just wanted to address that single play surely doesn't make Jenkins his *****. Your starting to get way off topic with shoving matches, dropped balls etc, stuff I never even brought up.





                              Originally posted by Scott Wright
                              I guarantee that if someone picks Cam Newton in the Top 5 they will regret it.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                What was that game where Vick threw that line drive to Maclin on a run fake? He faked the camera guy out too.

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