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  • eagles6606
    started a topic Donovan Mccnab

    Donovan Mccnab

    Since a lot of people are calling for Donovan's head, I feel the need to defend him. First of all, let me explain what happenned in last nights game. As usual, the Eagles failed to establish the run. This allowed the Cowboys to keep their safeties deep and prevent Maclin and Jackson from getting downfield. The Cowboys cornerbacks completely shut down Jackson and controlled Maclin except for the or gimmick play. Mcnabb had no where to go with the ball. The Eagles line could not contain the pass rush and Donovan was running fir his life most of the game. This was partially because we had our backup center in, partially because Mccoy isn't very experienced in picking up the blitz, and mainly because the Cowboys pass rushers were just better than us. I'm not saying Donovan could not have played better, but it certainly wasn't his fault. A QB who is not as mobile as Mcnabb (specifically Kolb) would have gotten killed last night. Even if we had Peyton or Brady back there, I don't think we would have won the game.
    Throughout his whole career, Donovan has been a winner. He has been successfull without good recievers. The one year when he had recievers, we went to the super bowl. In the regular season, Mcnabb has the third best TD to INT in the NFL of ALL TIME. That is very impressive. Yes Donovan is a streaky QB and sometimes he completely loses his accuracy. However when he gets into a bad streak, he doesn't turn the ball over and still gives his team
    a chance to win. Let's compare Donovan to Kolb, who would replace
    Mcnabb if he was traded. Donovan is a mobile QB, he is very good at escaping the rush, has a good deep ball, and is a proven winner. He is also a very streaky with his accuracy and could be a better leader. Kolb is theoretically more accurate, less streaky, and a better leader than Mcnabb. However he is no where near as good at escaping the pocket as Mcnabb and his arm/deep
    ball is not as good. On a team based on speed (Maclin and Jackson) a QB who can throw deep and extend the play is essential. Kolb has a good future, but he is not in Mcnabb's league.
    I understand people's frustration that we haven't won a super bowl, I am frustrated too. Replacing Donovan is not the answer. Instead the Eagles should improve the team they already have. Next year Jackson, Maclin, Celek, Peters, Justice, and Mccoy should all be better. We need to resign Weaver and Avant, get a monster left defensive end, a starting free safety, and an upgrade at strong side linebacker. This is the most talented offense the eagles have had in many years and it will only get better. Donovan is an experienced QB and a proven winner. With some growth and 2 or 3 significant upgrades on defense, the Eagles will be an extremely dangerous team.

  • Brothgar
    replied
    Really we've overanayzed a simple set of questions when thinking of the trading McNabb issue.

    1. What is the likelyhood of McNabb wining a SB wthin 3 yers (Andy Reid's extension).

    2. Will another team pay an adequate price for him.

    Here's my take:

    1. For this question we have to look at 3 things
    a. his record
    b. his health
    c. the direction of the team.

    a. McNabb has made the playoffs all but two seaons. In his career NFC Championship a couple of times SB once. On the cusp or stalling out.

    b. Based on the trend he should have a full season next year. But having never had two strait seasons injury free is troublsome.

    c. The team is young on O and an aging D is it time to rebuild or take 1 more shot?

    2. McNabb isn't going to a rebuilding team it would be futile. This leaves two teams Cards and Vikes if Favre retires. Outside shot at Jags, Raiders, Titans and Broncos. If Favre comes back and Cards like Matt you could see noone willing to trade for him.

    The plan: Bide your time listen to offers but don't activly shop him. 1st and 3rd was what Det got for Roy. 2 2nds for Schawb. 2 1st for Cutler. It seems like every year a top QB goes down then that team gets desperate. Teams always over value picks in the off season so bring them both into camp give the kid a legit chance to start and get more for the 2011 draft and put a big dent in the comming rebuild.

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  • Morton
    replied
    Originally posted by superman8456 View Post
    In my opinion, even if we keep McNabb, I don't think our defense (*not a fan of Sean McDermott underperforming with our defensive talent*) would be able to help us win games anymore. So pretty much if we keep the QB that gives us a better chance to win, we will probably lose the closer games. I say trade McNabb, get as much value for him, give Kolb the keys to the kingdom and let him grow with the young players in our offense. I'm prepared for the growing pains I know I'm going to have to deal with, with Kolb.
    To be fair to McDermott, he actually didn't have all that much talent to work with. The linebacking corps this year was really, really sketchy, and our secondary is pretty overrated. Sheldon Brown is starting to show signs of aging, and Asante Samuel is really only good at jumping routes and getting interceptions here and there. And of course, our free safety situation was just abysmal, which in turn makes Mikell look alot worse.

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  • Morton
    replied
    Originally posted by Sniper View Post
    Um, what?

    New Orleans finished...

    25th in ypg
    13th in ppg
    25th in pass defense

    Where, exactly, is this "elite" defense?
    Remember that for the latter part of the year, their two best cornerbacks were injured and they had to start some scrubs at that position until Tracy Porter and Jabari Greer came back from their injuries for the playoffs.

    When they had Porter & Greer in, the pass defense was very good. According to DVOA, Greer was the second best cornerback behind Derelle Revis this past year.

    I'm sure alot of the ypg/ppg numbers were skewed by the bad cornerbacks they had on the field after the injuries and they played poorly, but in the first half of the year their defense was great against the pass. Perhaps they didn't give up the fewest points like, say, the Jets, but they were near the top in takeaways, due in no small part to the interception skills of guys like Darren Sharper, Tracy Porter, and Jabari Greer in their secondary.

    Not only that, but their run defense was rather poor, despite their pass defense being good. So when I was referring to their defense being elite, I was mostly referring to their secondary, which is what part of the defense Kolb specifically was playing against.

    And anyway, the point is that Kolb was playing against the defense that stopped Peyton Manning from winning the Super Bowl... all numbers aside, any defense that stops Peyton Manning has gotta be good.
    Last edited by Morton; 02-18-2010, 07:00 PM.

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  • tjsunstein
    replied
    Awful spelling of the guy's name in the title.

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  • superman8456
    replied
    I think we're too young to be able to win a SB. Part of the reason I wouldn't mind trading McNabb. The offense would be able to grow with each other and probably be a real competitor in two years if McNabb gets traded. If we keep McNabb, we will win more games. Period. We may have a slight chance to make a deep playoff run as well. This is all pretty basic and I'm not telling you anything you don't already know.

    In my opinion, even if we keep McNabb, I don't think our defense (*not a fan of Sean McDermott underperforming with our defensive talent*) would be able to help us win games anymore. So pretty much if we keep the QB that gives us a better chance to win, we will probably lose the closer games. I say trade McNabb, get as much value for him, give Kolb the keys to the kingdom and let him grow with the young players in our offense. I'm prepared for the growing pains I know I'm going to have to deal with, with Kolb.

    Leave a comment:


  • Sniper
    replied
    Originally posted by Morton View Post
    2009 Saints = elite
    Um, what?

    New Orleans finished...

    25th in ypg
    13th in ppg
    25th in pass defense

    Where, exactly, is this "elite" defense?

    Leave a comment:


  • Morton
    replied
    Two things, also, to remember when discussing Kolb:

    1.) In the 2008 Ravens game, people point to the interception return by Ed Reed when calling out Kolb's performance. What people forget, however, is that after stepping in for McNabb, despite his limited experience starting for the Eagles, he moved the ball down field with remarkable ease until he was picked off in the red zone by, arguably the best ball-hawking safety in the NFL. So, really, being picked off by Ed Reed as a rookie with little experience is probably not something to be overly ashamed of. What impressed me was that Kolb moved the ball with ease when alot of other backup quarterbacks would have struggled to do even that against the Ravens.

    2.) People point to Kolb's loss vs. the Saints as a reason to downplay his abilities. Yes, he threw a few costly interceptions, but again, this was his first real start, and - get this - he was facing the Super Bowl winning defense loaded with ball-hawking safeties and cornerbacks (Darren Sharper, Jabari Greer, Tracy Porter). If these guys could pick off Peyton Manning to win the Super Bowl, I'm sure getting an interception or two against the a quarterback making his first-ever NFL start is to be expected. And again, except for those interceptions, Kolb played reasonably well. It's not as if he couldn't make any plays at all. He threw for some touchdowns, and moved the ball efficiently.

    After a year or two of playing time as the starter, there's a good reason to believe he'll be better than he was in those two starts by leaps and bounds... and that is incredibly promising if you realize that he looked *decent*, given the circumstances, against those two elite defenses (2008 Ravens = elite, 2009 Saints = elite).

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  • Thumper
    replied
    I'm not the only one who thinks this...

    http://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2...tes-kevin-kolb

    Matt Williamson of Scouts Inc for an evaluation of young Eagle QB.
    "He’s been very impressive in limited snaps, going back to preseason. Although last year he got thrown into action when [Donovan] McNabb got benched against the Baltimore Ravens, and he looked horrible. But that was the worst-case scenario for the poor guy, too, to go into the second half against one of the best defenses in the league with no preparation. So you tend to wash that away. But since then Kolb has really stepped it up, and I am high on him. I think he can make every throw. He's a quick decision-maker, and he's a good enough athlete. Kolb has everything you want physically, and the ball comes out of his hand really nice. He has an awful lot of upside, almost like a Matt Schaub when he was in Atlanta or Aaron Rodgers in Green Bay [waiting] behind Brett Favre. Kolb just needs to get a crack at it. I kind of feel like he's the next guy to be breaking out, either with his present team or with a new team. Considering what some of the teams are starting in this league, I would start Kolb today, still being more of an unknown, over 10 or 12 starting quarterbacks for sure."
    I am completely supportive of this guys opinion of Kolb.

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  • Thumper
    replied
    Broth, he does things like that even without pressure in his face and in the first Dallas game he had the time to do whatever he wanted for most of the game.

    Anyways.

    http://www.philadelphiaeagles.com/ne...story_id=20153

    Odd, I didn't expect the Eagles website to post an article on this because the website is A.) typically censored by Joe Banner and co. B.) Run by Spadaro who thinks McNabb and all the other starters are great and the Eagles are fine and C.) The site typically avoids controversial topics like this one.

    Essentially what it talks about is trade scenarios for McNabb, mostly Vikings and Cardinals based on retirement decisions from Warner and Favre. Whats interesting is that the Eagles website typically doesn't jump the gun on moves like this and whenever something like this is posted it is typically a sort of 'trial balloon' to test public opinion and start to get the idea out there.

    I don't think this has implications of any kind but it just strikes me as odd because Spadaro typically avoids this kind of thing.

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  • Brothgar
    replied
    Originally posted by Thumper View Post
    Bump, I'm not kidding all of you should read this.
    I read the overly long synapsis of something very simple. Donny Mc has been over rated for a long time. I've said so for years streaky completely folds under pressure (big game pressure and pass rush pressure). Also he is right if you want to compete next year you keep McNabb if you want to win in the future you gamble on Kolb.

    As for McNabb's trade value you would only get a late 2nd this year (I'm looking at you Vikings)

    Also Thumper since I replied to your post about the "article" please respond to my post at the end of the last page.

    Leave a comment:


  • Kramer
    replied
    Originally posted by Thumper View Post
    I think the Eagles can be as good or better next season with Kolb and not because of Kolb. I understand fearing the trading of McNabb, like we said franchise passers don't grow on trees but I feel like Kolb has the tools and he is within a system that can allow him to be or become a franchise QB. But the real value of losing McNabb is that he will bring extra talent most likely through draft picks. The Eagles defense was really exposed and they need help at LE, SLB, FS, SS and CB and they need depth at MLB and better depth at DE, the defense as a whole was boosted by playing weak teams and those extra picks a McNabb trade could bring in would be a huge boost to a defense that is suddenly seemingly mediocre, especially along the defensive line. And I think at the very least Kolb showed he can move the ball up and down the field and lead a high octane offense.
    You make some good points, however if we do trade McNabb, it would obviously have to be for the right price. By no means should we be desperate to trade him. We are actually in a good position right now. Plenty of teams need a QB, and I am sure a lot will be calling, and they know that we don't NEED to get rid of McNabb, so they would know to make a great offer.

    I am just a huge McNabb supporter and he has been the starting QB for the Eagles ever since I became a fan, and it would be tough for me. Seeing Dawkins leave was pretty rough and it came back to bite us.

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  • Thumper
    replied
    Originally posted by Kramer View Post
    I am just concerned with the risk of trading McNabb, I mean QB isn't our main issue right now, and if we get rid of McNabb, is it making us a better team for next season? Is Kolb really all that? Is the front office willing to trade the best QB in franchise history risking our chances of winning the Superbowl? Is Kolb an upgrade? Whats his ceiling? I know he has a different game than McNabb, but does he have the same potential? Maybe not but I guess he could make up for that with consistency.

    We will see, I am a big McNabb supporter, but he can be very frustrating at times. But I don't think he was the main reason why we lost the Dallas games. I think we have to fix our defense and add depth to our O-Line before trading our franchise QB in favor of a guy who had one really good game against the Chiefs.
    I think the Eagles can be as good or better next season with Kolb and not because of Kolb. I understand fearing the trading of McNabb, like we said franchise passers don't grow on trees but I feel like Kolb has the tools and he is within a system that can allow him to be or become a franchise QB. But the real value of losing McNabb is that he will bring extra talent most likely through draft picks. The Eagles defense was really exposed and they need help at LE, SLB, FS, SS and CB and they need depth at MLB and better depth at DE, the defense as a whole was boosted by playing weak teams and those extra picks a McNabb trade could bring in would be a huge boost to a defense that is suddenly seemingly mediocre, especially along the defensive line. And I think at the very least Kolb showed he can move the ball up and down the field and lead a high octane offense.

    Leave a comment:


  • Kramer
    replied
    I am just concerned with the risk of trading McNabb, I mean QB isn't our main issue right now, and if we get rid of McNabb, is it making us a better team for next season? Is Kolb really all that? Is the front office willing to trade the best QB in franchise history risking our chances of winning the Superbowl? Is Kolb an upgrade? Whats his ceiling? I know he has a different game than McNabb, but does he have the same potential? Maybe not but I guess he could make up for that with consistency.

    We will see, I am a big McNabb supporter, but he can be very frustrating at times. But I don't think he was the main reason why we lost the Dallas games. I think we have to fix our defense and add depth to our O-Line before trading our franchise QB in favor of a guy who had one really good game against the Chiefs.

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  • Thumper
    replied
    Originally posted by Thumper View Post
    Every single Eagles fan should read this article written by Tommy Lawlor.

    http://www.scoutsnotebook.com/module...&p=11882#11882

    It is a fantastic piece on who the Eagles should keep, McNabb or Kolb and pretty much everything is analyzed and all situations are accounted for.

    This part stands out to me because I think alot of Eagles fans want to take the safe route and keep McNabb, they're scared of switching things up.
    Bump, I'm not kidding all of you should read this.

    Leave a comment:

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