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  • #46
    Originally posted by Mr. Stiller View Post
    Anthony Spencer(Combine)

    Height: 6027
    Weight: 261
    40 Yrd Dash: 4.70
    20 Yrd Dash: 2.74
    10 Yrd Dash: 1.64
    Wonderlic:
    225 Lb. Bench Reps: 30
    Vertical Jump: 32 1/2
    Broad Jump: 9'4"
    20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.43
    3-Cone Drill: 7.14

    Spencer (Pro Day

    Height: 6027
    Weight: 261
    40 Yrd Dash: 4.69
    20 Yrd Dash: 2.76
    10 Yrd Dash: 1.56

    LaMarr Woodley (Pro Day)

    Height: 6014
    Weight: 266
    40 Yrd Dash: 4.74
    20 Yrd Dash: 2.72
    10 Yrd Dash: 1.65
    225 Lb. Bench Reps: 29
    Vertical Jump: 38 1/2
    Broad Jump: 9'9"
    20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.42
    3-Cone Drill:


    Woodley Reminds me of a Slower/weaker dwight freeney, whereas Spencer reminds me of a more powerful/faster Phillips.

    We talked to Spencer at his pro-day and Combine. We also did the same with Jamaal Anderson.

    I'm still thinking we might Take Beason....

    But If Anderson fell, we wouldn't take him because we haven't invited him? Perhaps we're not tipping our hand?

    And one of the reasons Michigan didn't run a 3-4, is because Woodley COULDN"T cover.

    He's too slow and lacks the hips.

    They had perfect lineup for 3-4 Defense.

    Woodley, Harris, Burgess, Crable
    DE, NT, Branch

    But Woodley wasn't good in coverage, hence the 4-3.

    First of all, Anderson is widely recognized as being a higher value than Spencer. Taking Anderson at 15 would generate alot more applause than Spencer at 15. That being said, the Steelers have drafted one of the players in the first two rounds they have interviewed nearly every year. Woodley, Carriker and players of that nature are coming in for an interview. Guess, who's not: Spencer.

    That could change over the next couple weeks, but I doubt it. Every expert and scout agrees that Spencer is a 4-3 DE and is not fluid enough in the hips, the same argument you are making against Woodley.

    I highly doubt Spencer will be available in the second round nor Woodley available in the second round. Too many teams need a DE and your going to tell me Tamba Hali goes in the first round last year and Woodley does not?

    Comment


    • #47
      I'd just like to point out that I'm not the only one that actually remembers Woodley playing as a stand up 3-4 outside backer in '04, and a stand up rush backer/hand down DE in the hybrid 3-4/4-3 Michigan ran in '05. Patriots/Lions remembers that too.
      Last edited by ironman4579; 04-13-2007, 10:37 AM.



      Originally posted by Jakey
      WWWWWWWWWTTTTTTTTTTTTFFFFFFFFFFF!!!

      i am literally gonna kick a baby to death!

      Comment


      • #48
        First of all, Anderson is widely recognized as being a higher value than Spencer. Taking Anderson at 15 would generate alot more applause than Spencer at 15. That being said, the Steelers have drafted one of the players in the first two rounds they have interviewed nearly every year. Woodley, Carriker and players of that nature are coming in for an interview. Guess, who's not: Spencer.

        We still have 10 interviews.. pus we interviewed him twice.. did I say Spencer at #15?

        Originally posted by scouts about Spencer
        Positives: Has a developing frame with good upper body muscle tone, tight waist and hips, good bubble, thick arms and room to add at least another 10 pounds of bulk with no loss in quickness...Has outstanding straight-line quickness, moving with an explosive burst coming off the edge...Has the quick change of direction agility to work down the line and his speed and range dropping back in pass coverage could see him develop into a 3-4 outside linebacker (best when having a free lane to pressure the pocket rather than bull rushing inside as a down lineman)...Really improved his ball recognition skills in 2006 and is no longer fooled by misdirection...With his better recognition skills, he vastly improved his backside pursuit skills, evident by the 21 third-down stops and five fourth-down tackles he executed in 2006...Has the upper body strength to consistently get leverage coming off the snap...Gets instant penetration as a pass rusher, showing proper hand technique, combined with an array of rip-and-swim moves to explosively close on the quarterback... Shows the hand delivery and punch-out ability coming off the ball, guarding his legs vs. the chop block while maintaining angle to close on the ball...Has his best production when he beats the offensive tackle with his quickness and has the lateral range to slip in-line...Contributes on the move and has the speed needed to chase long distances and make plays along the perimeter...Relentless in his straight-ahead charge to the ball...Has that rare speed to catch plays from behind...Locks out well, delivering a powerful hand swipe to get blockers off-balance...Has improved his anchor vs. the double team (still a work in progress)...His improved hand placement in 2006 saw him no longer struggle vs. face-up blockers...Has the lateral agility to flatten down the line of scrimmage and get outside...Has the athletic agility to fit in space, using his long arms to wrap and secure...Has the functional strength to get a push on the bull rush...Shows the speed and body control to get up field and shows a good feel to work back to the ball...Will play through pain, evident by his 15-tackle performance vs. Notre Dame in 2006 despite playing with a hyper-extended knee.

        Negatives: Plays with good functional strength, but relies on his speed too much...Lacks the size to gain leverage vs. double teams...When he fails to use his hands to fend off blocks, he gets covered up by offensive tackles defending the run, as he generally will lose containment...Needs to add more lower body strength, as he lacks the leg drive to split or play off the combo blocks...Sometimes gets a little reckless in his pursuit and this results in him getting taken out of the play...When he fails to keep his pads down, he tends to lead with his shoulder before making the hit, rather than extending and securing with his arms...Lacks the ideal size to run over offensive tackles and will get engulfed and struggle to disengage when the opponent gets into his chest...Has good backpedal skills, but is a bit stiff in his hips trying to turn...Lack of size could see him as a better fit for a 3-4 alignment as a linebacker (has the speed to make plays in front of him)...Will play through pain, but missed action in several games with nagging leg cramps in 2006.

        Compares To: SHAUN PHILLIPS-San Diego...Both players were developed in the Joe Tiller system at Purdue to attack the quarterback with quickness. Both lack the ideal size you look for in a defensive end, but Phillips proved that he was capable of competing in a stand-up position. Spencer was a better prospect than Phillips coming out of college. If used in a similar system, Spencer will have just as much success in the pro ranks that Phillips has shown.
        Originally posted by Scouts about Woodley
        Positives: Has a shorter than ideal frame, but shows good upper body thickness, wide hips, good bubble, muscular arms and very good straight-line speed...Aggressive and physical edge rusher who plays with a high motor and a very competitive nature...Will go until the whistle and demonstrates the upper body power to stack, shed and press off coverage...Hard worker in practices and the training room and takes well to hard coaching (will do whatever the staff asks, evident by playing a different position in each of his years at Michigan)...Excellent edge rusher who constantly beats the blocker with his initial quickness...Has the initial step off the line and times his jumps well shooting the inside gaps...Does a good job of making adjustments on the move and has the lateral range to get to the perimeter and force the outside running game back inside...Plays more on instincts than ball recognition (needs to settle down at one position), but shows ease of movement flowing to the ball and a sudden burst to fill the rush lanes...When he stays low in his pads, he is capable of driving through blocks and also demonstrates functional ability to anchor at the point of attack...Showed improvement in 2006 in using his hands to stack and control...Was also more effective using his hands to shed...Very aggressive taking on blockers and even if he loses the battle, he will not throttle down, quit or get frustrated...Uses his hands well to defeat blocks and keep the opponent from attacking his feet...Pursues the play with vigor and has fluid lateral agility in pursuit, showing good urgency throughout the chase...Best when given a free lane to close in and flush the quarterback out of the pocket...Applies constant pressure coming off the snap and has the change of direction skills to pursue from the backside...Explosive closing on the ball in the short area and has the valid foot speed to make plays outside the box...Hits, wraps and drives through the ball carrier with good technique, doing a good job of adjusting in space and fit to finish...Generates good pop on contact and hits low, with good violence...Comes off the edge with a very effective hand slap, rocking the blockers back on their heels...Has multiple rush moves and the range to chase down the play...Can play linebacker, but is much more instinctive when he lines up with his hand down as a defensive end...Shows the leg drive to change direction in an instant...Displays impressive hip snap turning and takes good angles while keeping his hands active to defeat the block...Gets nice inside position with his hands shooting the gaps (lacks bulk to split double teams, though)....His ability to explode off the edge is due to his flexibility and counter moves in attempts to come under the tackle...Lacks size, but shows strength on his bull rush (hard to take him off his feet once he gets moving).

        Negatives: Can be neutralized by double-team blocking, as he struggles to hold his ground vs. the larger blockers...Because of all the position moves, he has not had time to develop solid read/react ability and plays more on instincts...Needs more than several reps to retain plays and might struggle in a complicated system (best when freelancing)... Might have the size and experience at linebacker, but even when playing that position, he was pulled in obvious passing situations (struggles getting good depth in his drops)...Has a great motor, but will sometimes get too out of control and over-pursue...Even with his strength, he can get washed out of the play when trying to work through the trash...Lacks ideal height and bulk to play in a base defense, but has the speed to cause problems playing wide off the edge...Has good lateral range, but looks sluggish opening his hips through transition.

        Compares To: DARRYL TAPP-Seattle...Some might compare him to the Colts' Dwight Freeney or Robert Mathis, but Woodley is not as fast as Freeney and has better tackling form and strength than Mathis. Like Seattle found out with Tapp later in the 2006 season, if you keep Woodley on the edge, his burst and hand strength are going to enable him to wreak havoc in the backfield. While he has experience as a linebacker, he lacks the loose hips, pass drop agility and read/react skills to play there. In a Cover-2 system out on a nine-tech rather than facing a seven-technique blocker, he could be a terror.
        it's more than just the hips for woodley..



        That could change over the next couple weeks, but I doubt it. Every expert and scout agrees that Spencer is a 4-3 DE and is not fluid enough in the hips, the same argument you are making against Woodley.

        Every Scout? They have him going to Baltimore at #29 in some mocks and expect him to be the next Adalius Thomas.

        I highly doubt Spencer will be available in the second round nor Woodley available in the second round. Too many teams need a DE and your going to tell me Tamba Hali goes in the first round last year and Woodley does not?

        Depth at DE is good this year... Hali was rated a 2nd rounder but the Chiefs wanted him. Spencer could fall if Detroit/Zona don't take him in round 2 (I Think Baltimore will be too busy trying to fix their oline.) Woodley was being ranked as a 4th rounder until his pro day. Unless someone like the Jets think it's their only chance and get him rd 1, he'll be around in rd 2.

        Yeah, I play WoW too.[/CENTER]

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by BigRob View Post
          Well, every 3-4 Scout out there disagrees with you. Would you be calling the writer of this article a liar for not doing his research and for trusting his sources?

          http://patriots.bostonherald.com/pat...format=&page=1
          Page didn't work..

          Sure some team may hope for a steal in Woodley considered he was a first rounder. But I don't see it, Wolverine fans don't see it. I don't think most NFL teams see it.

          You act like Everyone in the league is honest adn there's no smoke screens.

          I'm sure not every 3-4 scout disagrees with me..

          From Bob McGinn.

          LaMarr Woodley, DE, Michigan: 6-1, 269. Played with great effort and was more than respectable in '06 meeting against the Badgers' Joe Thomas. "He's such an intense, high-motor guy," one scout said. "But I'm not crazy about him." That's because he's short. Compared by another scout to Detroit's James Hall, another former Wolverine. Some say he'll be able to play linebacker in a 3-4. "He plays with good leverage, he uses his arms and hands well, he's got strength and pop," a third scout said. "But he is only a pass rusher."

          Yeah, I play WoW too.[/CENTER]

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by Mr. Stiller View Post
            Page didn't work..

            Sure some team may hope for a steal in Woodley considered he was a first rounder. But I don't see it, Wolverine fans don't see it. I don't think most NFL teams see it.

            You act like Everyone in the league is honest adn there's no smoke screens.

            I'm sure not every 3-4 scout disagrees with me..

            From Bob McGinn.

            LaMarr Woodley, DE, Michigan: 6-1, 269. Played with great effort and was more than respectable in '06 meeting against the Badgers' Joe Thomas. "He's such an intense, high-motor guy," one scout said. "But I'm not crazy about him." That's because he's short. Compared by another scout to Detroit's James Hall, another former Wolverine. Some say he'll be able to play linebacker in a 3-4. "He plays with good leverage, he uses his arms and hands well, he's got strength and pop," a third scout said. "But he is only a pass rusher."
            I kind of thought that was the whole point, that he would be drafted as a rush linebacker. If you're planning on him doing alot of covering, then I'd say no question there are better options. And I'll say again that he played as a stand up backer for at the very least, most of '04.



            Originally posted by Jakey
            WWWWWWWWWTTTTTTTTTTTTFFFFFFFFFFF!!!

            i am literally gonna kick a baby to death!

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by ironman4579 View Post
              I kind of thought that was the whole point, that he would be drafted as a rush linebacker. If you're planning on him doing alot of covering, then I'd say no question there are better options. And I'll say again that he played as a stand up backer for at the very least, most of '04.
              Standup DE and true 3-4 OLB are different (Although I need not say that to you).

              Joey Porter was probably one of the best coverage OLB's in the league, which lead to his poor sack #'s as he wasn't allowed to rush so much because we were getting beat so much.

              When your other OLB runs a 4.8-4.9.. I'd like a Solid coverage OLB.

              Yeah, I play WoW too.[/CENTER]

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by Mr. Stiller View Post
                Standup DE and true 3-4 OLB are different (Although I need not say that to you).

                Joey Porter was probably one of the best coverage OLB's in the league, which lead to his poor sack #'s as he wasn't allowed to rush so much because we were getting beat so much.

                When your other OLB runs a 4.8-4.9.. I'd like a Solid coverage OLB.
                Yea, no I see what you're saying. I certainly wouldn't recommend Woodley as a true 3-4 OLB, trying to drop back into coverage too often. As I said, if he was used in a Merriman like role, where all he really has to do is get after the quarterback(not saying that's all Merriman does, just for simplicity sake) I think he could be very effective. If he's asked to drop back into coverage an awful lot, I think he'd be more of a hinderance than a help. And despite my arguments, I still feel and agree that he'd be better as a DE in a 4-3 anyway.



                Originally posted by Jakey
                WWWWWWWWWTTTTTTTTTTTTFFFFFFFFFFF!!!

                i am literally gonna kick a baby to death!

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by ironman4579 View Post
                  Yea, no I see what you're saying. I certainly wouldn't recommend Woodley as a true 3-4 OLB, trying to drop back into coverage too often. As I said, if he was used in a Merriman like role, where all he really has to do is get after the quarterback(not saying that's all Merriman does, just for simplicity sake) I think he could be very effective. If he's asked to drop back into coverage an awful lot, I think he'd be more of a hinderance than a help. And despite my arguments, I still feel and agree that he'd be better as a DE in a 4-3 anyway.
                  I agree. I like your sig. I'm hoping Crable is a Steeler next year. He reminds me of a Joey Porter type ferocity.

                  Yeah, I play WoW too.[/CENTER]

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Mr. Stiller View Post
                    I agree. I like your sig. I'm hoping Crable is a Steeler next year. He reminds me of a Joey Porter type ferocity.
                    Thanks. Crable is easily my favorite player on the Michigan D this year. I really think he has a ton of potential.



                    Originally posted by Jakey
                    WWWWWWWWWTTTTTTTTTTTTFFFFFFFFFFF!!!

                    i am literally gonna kick a baby to death!

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by ironman4579 View Post
                      Thanks. Crable is easily my favorite player on the Michigan D this year. I really think he has a ton of potential.
                      Same here i was hoping he'd jump..

                      but i think i found our Porter in Barnes.

                      Yeah, I play WoW too.[/CENTER]

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Look, Lets just agree to disagree. I think Woodley would be just fine in the second round and on. I am not suggesting he is pick 15 material. Don't be surprised if the Patriots take him with their second first round pick.

                        The player I really like, in the 3rd is Bryan Robison from Texas. He has the size and speed to play in the 3-4 defense.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by BigRob View Post
                          Look, Lets just agree to disagree. I think Woodley would be just fine in the second round and on. I am not suggesting he is pick 15 material. Don't be surprised if the Patriots take him with their second first round pick.

                          The player I really like, in the 3rd is Bryan Robison from Texas. He has the size and speed to play in the 3-4 defense.
                          I'll agree on Robison. As I see it though, We'll have to see from what i've been getting is that we're going to the 4-3 Immediately and could even move up for Jamaal Anderson. If thats the Case.. Harrison is a solid WLB, but we'll need a SLB (Antwan Barnes), and a MLB (Foote is a 2 down MLB, and Farrior is aging. I'm thinking DeOssie).

                          I think we'll still see 3-4 looks, but I think we're going to 4-3, which at this point I'm not against, seeing as it means Jamaal Anderson is our RDE, making Kiesel the LDE, and Smith/Hampton the DT's.

                          Got have mercy on any team that tries to run on us.

                          Yeah, I play WoW too.[/CENTER]

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by BigRob View Post
                            Sorry, but the Steelers aren't even sniffing around Spencer at this point.
                            Spencer Visited Monday April 16.

                            Yeah, I play WoW too.[/CENTER]

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