Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

San Francisco 49ers Discussion

Collapse
This is a sticky topic.
X
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by binary View Post
    Not down for that. Maybe if we cut Lewis.
    We NEED to cut Lewis. He's not the weakest spot on our defense but his declining ability leaves a gaping hole back there that could be filled if Goldson were to move over. If we do in fact move Goldson over, we should either bring in a vet or acquire one through draft. Either way, I'm down with.


    Comment


    • Hey!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      I mentioned FS Darren Sharper a week or two ago and everyone bashed me for it. What the hell guys?????!!!!!

      Comment


      • Originally posted by dan77733 View Post
        Hey!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

        I mentioned FS Darren Sharper a week or two ago and everyone bashed me for it. What the hell guys?????!!!!!
        Did you mention he would be replacing Lewis? An overpaid, declining Sharper and an overpaid, ineffective, concussion-prone, molasses slow Lewis would not be a good combo.

        Why aren't we looking at Atogwe right now? Lewis is gonna get 4.5 mill next year I believe. I'm pretty sure we could swing Atogwe for around 5 mill, WTF, I'm confused. Atogwe would be a VAST upgrade over Lewis. Dan and I can't be the only ones seeing this. Is there something wrong with this train of thought?

        Comment


        • Originally posted by binary View Post
          Did you mention he would be replacing Lewis? An overpaid, declining Sharper and an overpaid, ineffective, concussion-prone, molasses slow Lewis would not be a good combo.

          Why aren't we looking at Atogwe right now? Lewis is gonna get 4.5 mill next year I believe. I'm pretty sure we could swing Atogwe for around 5 mill, WTF, I'm confused. Atogwe would be a VAST upgrade over Lewis. Dan and I can't be the only ones seeing this. Is there something wrong with this train of thought?
          I really would like them to act on Atogwe as well and have wondered why they haven't jumped on trying to get him already.

          Maiocco highlighted their possible strategy of laying low yesterday in his blog. Read the second part under the Carr update. It gives me hope. :)

          http://tinyurl.com/ybvwns5


          #thestruggleisreal with Tomsula in as HC after the "Harbacle"
          Operation Pile Up Draft Picks for Re-Build: In progress, with much work to be done


          "He who thinks he knows it all has the most to learn"

          Comment


          • Originally posted by binary
            Did you mention he would be replacing Lewis? An overpaid, declining Sharper and an overpaid, ineffective, concussion-prone, molasses slow Lewis would not be a good combo.
            I'm pretty sure I did because signing Sharper to start at FS would mean that I would move Goldson to SS and thus release/trade Lewis. And sadly, I have to agree with you as I dont think a Lewis/Sharper would be a good combo. I do think that Sharper would be an upgrade though as he does somewhat remind me of one of my all-time favs Rod Woodson when he played FS.

            Originally posted by binary
            Why aren't we looking at Atogwe right now? Lewis is gonna get 4.5 mill next year I believe. I'm pretty sure we could swing Atogwe for around 5 mill, WTF, I'm confused. Atogwe would be a VAST upgrade over Lewis. Dan and I can't be the only ones seeing this. Is there something wrong with this train of thought?
            I cant believe this either especially when there would be no compensation required plus SF could always include a poison pill to avoid STL from matching the offer. Goldson and Atogwe would be very good in my opinion.

            We're NOT doing a damn thing. Everything thats been going around have been nothing but rumors like the McNabb being traded to us for a first rounder or rumors surrounding Leon Washington which by the way, I hope doesnt happen.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by binary View Post
              Did you mention he would be replacing Lewis? An overpaid, declining Sharper and an overpaid, ineffective, concussion-prone, molasses slow Lewis would not be a good combo.

              Why aren't we looking at Atogwe right now? Lewis is gonna get 4.5 mill next year I believe. I'm pretty sure we could swing Atogwe for around 5 mill, WTF, I'm confused. Atogwe would be a VAST upgrade over Lewis. Dan and I can't be the only ones seeing this. Is there something wrong with this train of thought?
              Maiocco pretty much summed it up in a post a few days ago. Essentially his agruement is that RFAs are bad deals (something I've been saying for about a month now...

              http://blog.pressdemocrat.com/49ers/...for-49ers.html

              Also, I really doubt the Niners would use a "poison pill," mainly cause no one uses that tactic anymore for fear of opening up the whole antitrust quagmire.

              I only see them getting Atogwe if we worked out a trade (where we could negotiate a contract without having to compete with other teams and the owning team). Otherwise I think the team is comfortable with their Safeties.

              Something to keep in mind with Lewis is that his contract is big, but its short. They could easilly cut him after this year with no consequences as most of his guaranteed oney was paid in the first 3 years of his deal. Replacing him with Sharper or Atogwe would be replacing his short term deal with a longer one (with a similar, though most likely, larger payout).
              Last edited by thediggler3030; 03-11-2010, 03:30 PM.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by thediggler3030 View Post
                Maiocco pretty much summed it up in a post a few days ago. Essentially his agruement is that RFAs are bad deals (something I've been saying for about a month now...

                http://blog.pressdemocrat.com/49ers/...for-49ers.html

                Also, I really doubt the Niners would use a "poison pill," mainly cause no one uses that tactic anymore for fear of opening up the whole antitrust quagmire.

                I only see them getting Atogwe if we worked out a trade (where we could negotiate a contract without having to compete with other teams and the owning team). Otherwise I think the team is comfortable with their Safeties.

                Something to keep in mind with Lewis is that his contract is big, but its short. They could easilly cut him after this year with no consequences as most of his guaranteed oney was paid in the first 3 years of his deal. Replacing him with Sharper or Atogwe would be replacing his short term deal with a longer one (with a similar, though most likely, larger payout).
                That's his and your opinion. Here's mine - I think going after an RFA can be good OR bad depending on the player, contract offer, age and draft pick compensation.

                Why should we try to workout a trade for Atogwe and give up something in return when we can get him for FREE? Contract wise, wouldnt matter but since he was tendered at the lowest level which only allows STL to match, why on Earth would we try to trade for him? That makes no sense whatsoever. I would make him a good (not great) offer and see if he accepts. If the Rams allow him to leave, great and if not, no big deal.

                Lewis has two years left if I remember correctly. Signing Sharper would most likely be a one year deal regardless of how many years his contract says and acquiring Atogwe would be an UPGRADE because it would allow Goldson to move to SS which means that we'll have two playmaking safeties who are younger and better overall. Plus, releasing Lewis would free up cap room that could be given to Atogwe since Lewis' base salary would have went to him anyway if he was still on the team in 2010.

                The only RFA that I would seriously go after would be 25 year old Panthers CB Richard Marshall and yeah, I would much rather give up a second rounder for a four year CB instead of drafting a rookie and asking him to make an impact.

                Bottom line is this - the 49ers have a GREAT chance to make an impact and be a legitimate threat not only for the division but the conference as well but management has to go out and take advantage of the chance we have because no one knows if that chance will be there next year and quite honestly, im sick and ******* tired of watching my beloved 49ers start out HOT and then end the season at 8-8, 7-9 or worse. It's ******* time for them to stop being scared and take some damn chances because who knows when we'll have a great chance like this again.

                Rams suck and the Seahawks arent much better but I do think Carroll is going to turn them around sooner rather than later. The Cardinals still have a good overall team but Warner's retirement and losses in FA have hurt them to where there's question marks about them. NOW is the ******* time to reclaim what should be ours - the NFC West division title followed by the NFC championship and the damn Super Bowl!!!

                I would like to think that all 49er fans would agree with me on that.

                Comment


                • Not too bad for post #1,800 .......

                  Rams suck and the Seahawks arent much better but I do think Carroll is going to turn them around sooner rather than later. The Cardinals still have a good overall team but Warner's retirement and losses in FA have hurt them to where there's question marks about them. NOW is the ******* time to reclaim what should be ours - the NFC West division title followed by the NFC championship and the damn Super Bowl!!!
                  Dan, I couldnt agree more, with that paragraph anyway. You deserve props for the Sharper proposal 2 wks. ago too.

                  But that factor you noted, age, is a 2-edged sword in a DB. You need the experience of a Sharper (which paid off for NOLA in the SB vs. state of the art QB Manning) at safety for pass defense strategy, but you need the young legs & footspeed of an impact rookie, & that's an oxymoron. Teams shy away from >30 DBs, just a fact of life.

                  I agree with PFW that CB is more of a need than safety with the 9ers. Here's why: Shawtae Spencer entered the yr. coming from knee ligament surgery & was a shadow of his former self, he replaced 14-yr veteran Walt Harris whose own knee surgery retired him, & Clements has an awful yr. where the quality of his play tailed off so badly he was almost benched, then fractured a shoulder blade on a return but that was mgmt's fault for using such a highly paid & irreplaceable cover corner there in the 1st place.

                  Only Tarell Brown's huge upside gives me hope for the future at CB, jury is still out on Clements but with his huge salary he will be pressed into service. If Brown or Clements tanks they will need a new starter & the draft is where they need to find one, right after taking care of the OL problem.

                  Lewis & Roman are done, end of story, dump them like garbage. This draft is so deep with safeties I think they can find one in later rds.
                  Last edited by LizardState; 03-12-2010, 12:34 PM.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by LizardState View Post
                    Not too bad for post #1,800 .......



                    Dan, I couldnt agree more, with that paragraph anyway. You deserve props for the Sharper proposal 2 wks. ago too.

                    But that factor you noted, age, is a 2-edged sword in a DB. You need the experience of a Sharper (which paid off for NOLA in the SB vs. state of the art QB Manning) at safety for pass defense strategy, but you need the young legs & footspeed of an impact rookie, & that's an oxymoron. Teams shy away from >30 DBs, just a fact of life.

                    I agree with PFW that CB is more of a need than safety with the 9ers. Here's why: Shawtae Spencer entered the yr. coming from knee ligament surgery & was a shadow of his former self, he replaced 14-yr veteran Walt Harris whose own knee surgery retired him, & Clements has an awful yr. where the quality of his play tailed off so badly he was almost benched, then fractured a shoulder blade on a return but that was mgmt's fault for using such a highly paid & irreplaceable cover corner there in the 1st place.

                    Only Tarell Brown's huge upside gives me hope for the future at CB, jury is still out on Clements but with his huge salary he will be pressed into service. If Brown or Clements tanks they will need a new starter & the draft is where they need to find one, right after taking care of the OL problem.

                    Lewis & Roman are done, end of story, dump them like garbage. This draft is so deep with safeties I think they can find one in later rds.
                    Signing Sharper would be for one year and to add veteran experience in the secondary and allow Goldson to move over to SS while giving Smith an extra year to develop. Of course, I would much rather give Atogwe an offer especially since the Cowboys are rumored to want him and for free, who can blame them?

                    CB wise, I would go after Panthers RFA Richard Marshall who's only 25 years old and already has four seasons of playing experience including starting all 16 games last season. Brown is a keeper as is Spencer. I would have kept Hudson for depth and special teams while bringing back Bly for another season. I would also draft another CB in the later rounds. Basically, I would have Marshall, Spencer, Bly, Brown, Hudson and the late round draft pick. I would release Clements in favor of Marshall and use the money that Clements has coming on Marshall.

                    Harris is done as are Roman and Lewis. I like Lewis but would much rather get Atogwe and move Goldson over to SS. We would then have TWO playmaking safeties which would help out Marshall and Spencer.

                    I'm just annoyed that the team isnt doing a damn thing to take advantage of the situation and are banking on Smith/Carr for success in 2010. Making the defense stronger and adding more offensive weapons would help Smith/Carr in that regard.

                    I dont really see making offers to Marshall and especially Atogwe a problem or a negative whatsoever especially when releasing Clements and Lewis would even things out money wise anyway. I would also bring back T.O. and draft Spiller in the first at any means necessary especially since I dont want SEA to get him but I dont think they'll draft him at six overall but their second first rounder is a definite possibility.

                    And considering the fact that most of our draft picks in the third round or later has a negative percentage, I care more about getting quality over quantity. If McCloughan, Singletary, etc. value BPA over need, then why not trade up a few spots in order to accomplish both?

                    And regardless of what happens with 13, im hoping we move up at least one spot from 17 to 16 so we can get our second first rounder under contract for six seasons instead of five.

                    Marshall
                    Atogwe
                    T.O.

                    Spiller
                    Williams

                    I honestly dont see the above being impossible or even somewhat difficult. Its just a matter of whether McCloughan, etc. want to be aggressive and try to do something or just stay as is. And if we cant do better than 8-8 with those five players in addition to who we already have, then, quite honestly, it will be time to clean house in 2011.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by LizardState View Post

                      I agree with PFW that CB is more of a need than safety with the 9ers. Here's why: Shawtae Spencer entered the yr. coming from knee ligament surgery & was a shadow of his former self, he replaced 14-yr veteran Walt Harris whose own knee surgery retired him, & Clements has an awful yr. where the quality of his play tailed off so badly he was almost benched, then fractured a shoulder blade on a return but that was mgmt's fault for using such a highly paid & irreplaceable cover corner there in the 1st place.
                      Hmmm? Spencer won the starting corner job in training camp and has looked better than he ever has...which would be before his injury. I don't get the "shadow of his former self" comment.

                      "Every light must fade, every heart return to darkness!"
                      -San Francisco 49ers: Five Time Super Bowl Champions-
                      Originally posted by Borat
                      Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Ness View Post
                        Hmmm? Spencer won the starting corner job in training camp and has looked better than he ever has...which would be before his injury. I don't get the "shadow of his former self" comment.
                        I would like to see Spencer come back to regain his starting role & play like he did 2 yrs ago, but knee injuries are tricky with DBs & a certain %age just don't get back to the way they were. I'm saying it would be foolish to depend on him for the consistent coverage he had -- CB is all about fresh legs & speed. So far in 09 I didnt think he was back to that level, he dicked it up badly in Minnesota, where Lewis was the goat on the final play, all the SF pass defense has responsibility for letting a W slip away then.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by LizardState View Post
                          I would like to see Spencer come back to regain his starting role & play like he did 2 yrs ago, but knee injuries are tricky with DBs & a certain %age just don't get back to the way they were. I'm saying it would be foolish to depend on him for the consistent coverage he had -- CB is all about fresh legs & speed. So far in 09 I didnt think he was back to that level, he dicked it up badly in Minnesota, where Lewis was the goat on the final play, all the SF pass defense has responsibility for letting a W slip away then.
                          He also had an interception against the Vikings. And he already is a starter. The guy made plays last season and was our best corner bar none. He didn't end the season getting injured and there isn't any reason to be skeptical because he's not coming off an injury. By that logic you might as well be afraid to have confidence in Frank Gore because he has two repaired knees.

                          "Every light must fade, every heart return to darkness!"
                          -San Francisco 49ers: Five Time Super Bowl Champions-
                          Originally posted by Borat
                          Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by thediggler3030 View Post
                            I think its more important to keep the players you've groomed for your system and style of play then bring in players who have succeeded in other systems.
                            ^This x Infinity

                            Comment


                            • So....

                              NFL Network's Jason La Canfora is reporting that the 49ers and Detroit Lions are the teams showing the most interest in CB/RS - Adam "Pacman" Jones.

                              Very interesting. I can't believe I'm saying this but... color me interested.

                              1. He'll be very cheap.
                              2. If he slips up he'll be cut.
                              3. If he sucks, he'll be cut.
                              4. If he shows even a little of his talent he will add depth at CB and as a return man.
                              5. If he returns to his potential he will be an absolute steal and fill two desperate needs.

                              Bizarre.

                              Comment


                              • ^^^^^ UGH.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X

                                Debug Information