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  • Originally posted by dan77733 View Post
    If you want, feel free to get all the college 4-3 DE's that have been drafted since 2005 to play OLB in a 3-4 and you let me know how many have been good and how many have sucked. I'm willing to bet that its 30-70.
    No problem! The funny thing is I think most think there have been a large number of these 4-3 DE to 3-4 OLB draftees. Truth be told, there haven't been.


    Here is every player (as far as I found) that was a college 4-3 DE and was either drafted to play 3-4 OLB or now plays 3-4 OLB.

    Likely 2010 starters are in bold and those drafted in rounds 4-7 are in italics...


    2009

    Aaron Maybin - Bills
    Brian Orakpo - Redskins
    Larry English - Chargers
    Robert Ayers - Broncos
    Clay Matthews III - Packers
    (Included even though he played a huge number of snaps at USC as a LB)
    David Veikune - Browns
    Paul Kruger - Ravens

    Brandon Williams - Cowboys


    2008

    Vernon Gholston - Jets
    Shawn Crable - Patriots
    Bruce Davis - Steelers

    Erik Walden - Cowboys
    Brian Johnston - Chiefs
    Alex Hall - Browns



    2007

    Jarvis Moss - Broncos
    Anthony Spencer - Cowboys
    LaMarr Woodley - Steelers


    Jay Moore - 49ers
    Abraham Wright - Dolphins



    2006

    Kamerion Wimbley - Browns
    Tamba Hali - Chiefs
    Manny Lawson - 49ers

    Elvis Dumervil - Broncos
    Parys Haralson - 49ers

    Tim Dobbins - Chargers
    Jeremy Mincey - Patriots



    2005

    DeMarcus Ware - Cowboys
    Shawne Merriman - Chargers

    Dan Cody - Ravens

    Brady Poppinga - Packers
    David McMillan - Browns



    Overall 31 players of this type were drafted. 14 of whom will start in 2010. Of those 14, 12 were drafted in the first 2 rounds. Elvis Dumerville and Parys Haralson being the other 2 players.

    13 of the 30 players were drafted in the 1st round. Of those 13, 6 have had a double-digit-sack season.
    Last edited by phlysac; 06-23-2010, 02:23 PM.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by YAYareaRB View Post
      there he is!
      Being a Pitt homer, I'd absolutely LOVE Romeus. Unfortunately, he's not a pure pass rusher. He is earily similar to Lawson in style of play, albeit better at sacks at the college level. He is on the heavy side for an OLB but he has freakish athleticism and often lines up wide (standing up) and both rushes and drops into coverage. He has enough coverage ability to be able to blanket Golden Tate 40 yards downfield on several occasions last season.


      With that said, unless the 49ers lose Lawson in the next offseason, I hope the 49ers do everything in their power to select a top CB prospect. The team was 4th in the NFL in sacks last season and IMO a youthful stud at CB is FAR MORE NEEDED than another 3-4 OLB project.

      Comment


      • Owned. .....
        The Brian Sabean sig is no more. I disagreed with you on so many levels. And then you went out and built a dynasty. I am lame.

        Comment


        • Thats why I love you Phly. always got my back hahaha


          Comment


          • Originally posted by phlysac View Post
            No problem! The funny thing is I think most think there have been a large number of these 4-3 DE to 3-4 OLB draftees. Truth be told, there haven't been.


            Here is every player (as far as I found) that was a college 4-3 DE and was either drafted to play 3-4 OLB or now plays 3-4 OLB.

            Likely 2010 starters are in bold and those drafted in rounds 4-7 are in italics...


            2009

            Aaron Maybin - Bills
            Brian Orakpo - Redskins
            Larry English - Chargers
            Robert Ayers - Broncos
            Clay Matthews III - Packers
            (Included even though he played a huge number of snaps at USC as a LB)
            David Veikune - Browns
            Paul Kruger - Ravens

            Brandon Williams - Cowboys


            2008

            Vernon Gholston - Jets
            Shawn Crable - Patriots
            Bruce Davis - Steelers

            Erik Walden - Cowboys
            Brian Johnston - Chiefs
            Alex Hall - Browns



            2007

            Jarvis Moss - Broncos
            Anthony Spencer - Cowboys
            LaMarr Woodley - Steelers


            Jay Moore - 49ers
            Abraham Wright - Dolphins



            2006

            Kamerion Wimbley - Browns
            Tamba Hali - Chiefs
            Manny Lawson - 49ers

            Elvis Dumervil - Broncos
            Parys Haralson - 49ers

            Tim Dobbins - Chargers
            Jeremy Mincey - Patriots



            2005

            DeMarcus Ware - Cowboys
            Shawne Merriman - Chargers

            Dan Cody - Ravens

            Brady Poppinga - Packers
            David McMillan - Browns



            Overall 31 players of this type were drafted. 14 of whom will start in 2010. Of those 14, 12 were drafted in the first 2 rounds. Elvis Dumerville and Parys Haralson being the other 2 players.

            13 of the 30 players were drafted in the 1st round. Of those 13, 6 have had a double-digit-sack season.
            Out of the 31 players, only five of them have turned out thus far to be better than expected at making the transition with Ware being the best. Orakpo, Matthews, Woodley, Dumervil and Ware.

            Spencer, Wimbley, Hali, Lawson, Haralson and Merriman would be in the second tier. So, out of all 31 drafted players, only 11 of them have been at the very least worth drafting while Dumervil being the bigest steal thus far.

            Basically, its like 35% good, 65% bad. Slightly better than what I guessed but nowhere near worth the risk or gamble.

            I still think that if you draft a player who plays a certain position in college, that player should play the same in the NFL. Changing player positions rarely works out for the best. Either turns out to be a bust/flop or average most of the time unless you get real lucky.

            And thinking about it, I would obviously put Ware in a class by himself with Orakpo, Matthews, Woodley and Dumervil second class with the others third class.

            Basically, we're NOT going to get any of those second class players and NO, I wouldnt trade TWO first rounders for Dumervil next off-season if he isnt extended by then. And obviously, no chance in hell of getting Ware.

            That leaves the rest which is arguably the same, slightly better or slightly worse than who we already have in Lawson and Haralson depending on your own personal opinion.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Borat View Post
              Owned. .....
              Originally posted by YAYareaRB View Post
              Thats why I love you Phly. always got my back hahaha
              Oh please. Owned what??? That list proves MY POINT. Hell, subtract Ware and all you really have is Dumervil and Woodley with the rest bringing them two down.

              In terms of ELITE, its basically 3 (and im being generous by adding Woodley and Dumervil even though I believe that Ware is in a class by himself) players out of 31 which translates to a horrible 10% success rate but yeah, I was owned.

              *shakes head*

              Comment


              • Yeah, you got owned. The fact that you try to say otherwise is kind of funny though.
                The Brian Sabean sig is no more. I disagreed with you on so many levels. And then you went out and built a dynasty. I am lame.

                Comment


                • This is what happens in the offseason when there's not much else to talk about. We're die-hards. :)


                  #thestruggleisreal with Tomsula in as HC after the "Harbacle"
                  Operation Pile Up Draft Picks for Re-Build: In progress, with much work to be done


                  "He who thinks he knows it all has the most to learn"

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Borat View Post
                    Yeah, you got owned. The fact that you try to say otherwise is kind of funny though.
                    I say otherwise because I didnt get owned. At best, its still 35% good compared to 65% crap. I said it was 30-70 and im still closer to what I expected the results to be than anyone else here.

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                    • 1. it wasn't my intention to prove OR disprove Dan's assertion.

                      2. Dan, you said 70% of the players "sucked" and they are "crap". I'm sorry but starting 16 NFL games and being top-10 in nearly EVERY category isn't "sucking" when you can compare to the likes of Vernon Gholston and Jarvis Moss... THEY "suck" "crap"

                      3. Saying that players shouldn't "change positions" is kind of a naive statement as it relates to translateable skills. Patrick Willis had never played 3-4 MIKE before, I guess we shouldn't have drafted him, right? You can't respond with "well he played 4-3 ILB that's not a position change." Really? Tell that to Jon Vilma. Skills are translateable all over the field. You cannot simply ignore potential because a certain player didn't play the EXACT same position/scheme as you run. If that were the case, they might as well cancel drafting QB's because the "pro-style offense" barely exists in college football. And yes, I believe that changing schemes significantly within your position is just as much, IF NOT MORE difficult that translating a tweener 4-3 DE to 3-4 OLB. I believe the combination of scheme AND position is the essential element to success. If it weren't for this combination, players like NFL Defensive Player of the Year 3-4 OLB James Harrison would still be an UDFA and cut-three-times ILB and former NFL Safety Mike Furrey would never have lead the NFC in receptions, only to fail with a new scheme and return to Safety.

                      4. Yay and I agree on Romeus having "potential" as a 3-4 OLB. I didn't involve myself in any other portion of any arguments may or may not have had with anyone previously.

                      5. I still luv ya Dan. I hope I'm not coming across like I bashing on you because I'm not.
                      Last edited by phlysac; 06-24-2010, 12:23 AM.

                      Comment


                      • I think the positives from getting an elite pass rusher are too good to pass up. You will AT LEAST get solid production (like we have the past couple years) if things don't pan out.

                        The thought of having the next Demarcus Ware is too good to pass up


                        Comment


                        • Here is another topic to discuss. What are your thoughts on Jason Hill? I hope he can show some true value this season. I felt like he's always been a player with good potential, but for whatever reason he was never really given that many opportunities...which I find strange because we took him in the third round which was a day one pick back then. There was also a lot of hype surrounding the guy. I'm guessing his first few years he didn't really impress the coaching staff in training camp/OTA's/minicamp or he's really just been getting the shaft. I know he had his injury issues in year one, but after that it just seemed like he didn't get very many chances.
                          Last edited by Ness; 06-24-2010, 01:57 AM.

                          "Every light must fade, every heart return to darkness!"
                          -San Francisco 49ers: Five Time Super Bowl Champions-
                          Originally posted by Borat
                          Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Ness View Post
                            Here is another topic to discuss. What are your thoughts on Jason Hill? I hope he can show some true value this season. I felt like he's always been a player with good potential, but for whatever reason he was never really given that many opportunities...which I find strange because we took him in the third round which was a day one pick back then. There was also a lot of hype surrounding the guy. I'm guessing his first few years he didn't really impress the coaching staff in training camp/OTA's/minicamp or he's really just been getting the shaft. I know he had his injury issues in year one, but after that it just seemed like he didn't get very many chances.
                            Jason Hill is probably the most natural WR on the team aside from Crabtree. I like him a lot. In '08 he reminded me A LOT of a young Isaac Bruce, with more moves and speed. I'd really like to see him grab that #3 slot, and it's my belief that if Tree or Morgan gets hurt it will be Hill that steps in as the starter. I really hope they find a way to get him on the field; he produces when given the chance.

                            Comment


                            • I love having Hill for depth; I'd feel comfortable if he needed to step in and start. Apparently he looked good during these OTA's. There is a lot to like about the WR corps (ironically, ginn and jones are the two that arent as impressive), I just wish one of them could field an effing punt.

                              As for this 4-3 DE to 3-4 OLB diiscussion, I think comparing success rates of drafting 4-3 DE's to drafting 3-4 OLB converts would settle it. I think Lawson plays well this year. I also read an interview a while back that Staley thinks Parys is the toughest of the bunch to passblock. I hope there will be more questions posed like that during training camp to the guy vets opposite a player (which CB do you think covers you the tightest, what do the rookie linemen do well and what do they need to work on to sopoaga etc).

                              Comment


                              • If Lawson plays well they better re-sign him, even if it means letting Goldson go (assuming Goldson has a similar year). OLBs are just too valuable. I would love a future LB core of Lawson-Bowman-Willis-Brooks, assuming they all reach their potential.

                                As you guys know, I'm probably the biggest Taylor Mays basher on here, but even I have been impressed by the reports out of OTas of both him and Reggie Smith. Interesting that Goldson was pretty nonexistent. I have one foot on the Mays bandwagon, just one....the guy is obviously really smart and I'm all for smart players. Barrows even said he looked fluid in coverage...wow. Smith is really encouraging because he can actually lineup one on one with WRs, something that none of our other safeties can do.

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