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  • Originally posted by LizardState View Post
    They might want to run old Gilligan's Island episodes, or maybe Classic College FB games from 2-3 decades ago. :--)

    Imagine the hit on David Carr's self esteem when Singletary announced that despite everything he's going to start Smith vs the Raiders.
    I think I'd take the self esteem hit just fine if I was getting paid as much as Carr is to not see the field.


    #thestruggleisreal with Tomsula in as HC after the "Harbacle"
    Operation Pile Up Draft Picks for Re-Build: In progress, with much work to be done


    "He who thinks he knows it all has the most to learn"

    Comment


    • Originally posted by WhatWouldBillyBajemaDo?
      No I'm tired of a QB showing flashes late down the year and the fanbase annoiting him the new starter and wanting to pass on every QB in the draft. We did it with Hill 2 years ago and Smith a year ago. Time to take the best QB prospect out there and develop under an offensive minded coach the right way. Plus the prospect will be walking into a situation with 2 1st round lineman entering year 2 and Gore/Crabtree/Davis combo. Not a bad setup.
      I want to pass on every QB in the draft because there's no guarantee that the drafted QB will do any better than Smith especially if Singletary is still the HC or if the new HC is a defensive minded HC or if the new HC is just some damn assistant just happy to have a chance at a head coaching gig.

      The last two years, we werent in position to draft Stafford or Bradford so none of it matters anyway and no way would I give up an entire Draft or some crap like that just to pay a rookie $50m guaranteed.

      I said it before and I'l say it again, I would much rather give Davis a shot for the last 8 games of the season to see how he does. If he can at the very least have a 2 to 1 TD to INT ratio, he's my QB in 2011 because it makes no sense whatsoever to NOT give Davis at least a chance to see what he can do especially when drafting a QB in the first round isnt a guarantee that he'll do better than who we've had since Garcia.

      Personally, if McNabb doesnt re-sign or get franchised by WSH and becomes an UFA, I sign him in a heartbeat for three years as a stopgap. Only difference is that this stopgap would be a good one. Add an offensive minded HC like Jon Gruden and have them run the WCO which both of them already know and there ya go. Then have Gruden develop Davis especially if he was to play good in the final eight games of the season and keep Carr as the backup.

      Everyone is bashing Smith but after watching the entire game Sunday Night, I realized a few things that a lot of people here seem to ignore.

      1) His career in SF has been doomed from the day he was drafted. Nolan wasnt even sure who to draft between him and Rodgers, had a chance to trade Smith to CLE for #3 and then draft Rodgers but he decided to just stay with Smith.

      2) He was misused with Nolan especially when he was injured.

      3) Until 2009, he's had no offensive weapons whatsoever and the OL sucked.

      4) He's had a different OC and system every year he's been here except for last year and this year.

      As for now -

      5) The OL was average at best on SNF and Rachal sucks and he was the reason for that game ending INT. Not Smith. Rachal basically let the defender go by and pushed him to Davis who had his own defender to worry about. The defender hit Smith's arm and well, game over. Cant blame Smith for Rachal sucking and his OL not giving him time to pass.

      6) Smith's one bad decision was the lost fumble. The first INT was a chuck it up pass that the receiver didnt even look for until it was intercepted.

      7) Gore has TWO LOST FUMBLES but yet, no one here seems to remember that or want to blame Gore for that. And my off-season plan would include trading Gore because he already has four fumbles in five games compared to four fumbles total in 2009. Gore has 26 fumbles (17 lost) in 78 games played. I'm sorry but Gore should be helping Smith but instead his fumbling problem is just making things worse for Smith and putting even more of the blame on his shoulders.

      8 - The coaching sucks starting and ending with Singletary. He has no clue as to what he should be doing and quite honestly, im going to guess that when Smith does good, its because Smith is adjusting at the LOS or calling his own plays in the huddle. Also, Singletary continues to stay with Rachal because he's one of his projects and doesnt want to bench him because it then shows that he failed with him and Singletary's ego wont allow him to do that.

      9) We have Westbrook and Dixon and yet neither have been used to where you would actually notice them on the team. Especially Dixon, its like WTF have you been since pre-season?

      10) The defense is overrated and hasnt done a dman thing whatsoever. You can say whatever you want about Smith and the offense but when the defense is giving up 26.0 ppg, it doesnt matter how good your QB plays when the defense cant stop anyone.

      But whatever, this is obviously just my own personal opinion.
      Last edited by dan77733; 10-12-2010, 09:22 PM.

      Comment


      • dan77733, you also need to realize that Alex Smith himself is to blame for a lot of the problems that have occurred. And no one questions Frank Gore and his two fumbles because he has actually had a respectable season in the NFL. Smith is under the microscope because he's never lived up to expectations. Is it all his fault for that? No. But is there a lot of blame that he can put on himself? Yes.

        And trading Frank Gore just for some of the fumbles issues he's had would be dumb. By that logic Minnesota should have traded Adrian Peterson after last year's NFC Championship game.

        "Every light must fade, every heart return to darkness!"
        -San Francisco 49ers: Five Time Super Bowl Champions-
        Originally posted by Borat
        Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by dan77733 View Post


          I said it before and I'l say it again, I would much rather give Davis a shot for the last 8 games of the season to see how he does. If he can at the very least have a 2 to 1 TD to INT ratio, he's my QB in 2011 because it makes no sense whatsoever to NOT give Davis at least a chance to see what he can do especially when drafting a QB in the first round isnt a guarantee that he'll do better than who we've had since Garcia.

          Look I have no issue giving Davis a shot near the end of the year but even if he posts solid numbers at the end the 49ers are still going to be in groundhog day mode if they do not bring in a high end draft pick to be the QBOTF. It would be exactly like Carolina who banked on Matt Moore after a late burst near the end of last year. Plus take a look at the teams so far with winning records:
          Jets: 4-1 (Mark Sanchez)
          Ravens: 4-1 (Joe Flacco)
          Steelers: 3-1 (Rapisburger) all 3 wins are without him but they will be in the playoffs
          Colts: 3-2 (Manning)
          Titans: 3-2 (Young)
          Redskins: 3-2 (McNabb)
          Giants: 3-2 (Manning)
          Eagles: 3-2 (Vick and Kolb, not 1st rounder but 2nd rounder)
          Bears: 4-1 (Cutler)
          Packers: 3-2 (Rodgers)
          Falcons: 4-1 (Ryan)
          Bucs: 3-1 (Freeman)

          In only 2 divisons are there teams currently in 1st place without a first round QB. One of those divisons is the AFC West and I still see the Chargers winning that divison.

          I realize you do not want to pay the money for an unproven player but great, even good, QBs do not hit the market via either trade or FA. With the new rules that have been passed the last couple of years it has become increasingly easier to develop a rookie QB. Guys that were expected to be raw and take a couple of years (ex. Sanchez, Freeman, Bradford) have been able to step in and be productive players for their team. That's why I would be very upset if the 49ers pass on a QB in the 1st 2 rounds in such a deep draft at the position.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Ness View Post
            dan77733, you also need to realize that Alex Smith himself is to blame for a lot of the problems that have occurred. And no one questions Frank Gore and his two fumbles because he has actually had a respectable season in the NFL. Smith is under the microscope because he's never lived up to expectations. Is it all his fault for that? No. But is there a lot of blame that he can put on himself? Yes.

            And trading Frank Gore just for some of the fumbles issues he's had would be dumb. By that logic Minnesota should have traded Adrian Peterson after last year's NFC Championship game.
            Smith is to blame for a lot of the problems but not all of the problems and in regards to the Eagles game, his fumble was the only problem. After he fumbled, he came back with two quick TD drives where as a lot of QB's would have just given up or allowed to be benched. In the end, I think its 50/50. If Rachal didnt let the defender go who was able to get to Smith, there's no telling what would have happened. Smith could have thrown his 4th TD pass. You cant say either way because thanks to Rachal and Singletary staying with Rachal, we didnt get the chance to see what would have happened if Smith had time to throw.

            As for Gore, the fumbling problem is just one reason. Another reason is that his average thus far is a crappy 3.5. All things considered thats crappy. I wouldnt trade him though unless I was able to sign his replacement first which in case you're curious would be DeAngelo Williams who'll be an UFA. Of course, if I was to get Gruden and McNabb and then sign Williams, oh man, the offense would be far better than what it is now. Plus, McNabb has one of the lowest turnover percentages in history and Williams rarely if ever fumbles the ball. Thats already two positives right there.

            Granted, that's an insane idea but Gore's fumbling problem is just as bad and possibly worse than Smith's turnover problem because he's not the QB and as we all know, the QB gets the blame if the team loses and all the glory if the team wins. Gore losing fumbles just isnt helping matters.

            As for Peterson, he hasnt fumbled thus far this season. Peterson is a great RB but I would take Chris Johnson over him every damn time because he doesnt turn the ball over and ball security is the most important factor because you're not going to win if you keep turning the ball over.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by WhatWouldBillyBajemaDo? View Post
              Look I have no issue giving Davis a shot near the end of the year but even if he posts solid numbers at the end the 49ers are still going to be in groundhog day mode if they do not bring in a high end draft pick to be the QBOTF. It would be exactly like Carolina who banked on Matt Moore after a late burst near the end of last year. Plus take a look at the teams so far with winning records:

              Jets: 4-1 (Mark Sanchez)
              Ravens: 4-1 (Joe Flacco)
              Steelers: 3-1 (Rapisburger) all 3 wins are without him but they will be in the playoffs
              Colts: 3-2 (Manning)
              Titans: 3-2 (Young)
              Redskins: 3-2 (McNabb)
              Giants: 3-2 (Manning)
              Eagles: 3-2 (Vick and Kolb, not 1st rounder but 2nd rounder)
              Bears: 4-1 (Cutler)
              Packers: 3-2 (Rodgers)
              Falcons: 4-1 (Ryan)
              Bucs: 3-1 (Freeman)

              In only 2 divisons are there teams currently in 1st place without a first round QB. One of those divisons is the AFC West and I still see the Chargers winning that divison.

              I realize you do not want to pay the money for an unproven player but great, even good, QBs do not hit the market via either trade or FA. With the new rules that have been passed the last couple of years it has become increasingly easier to develop a rookie QB. Guys that were expected to be raw and take a couple of years (ex. Sanchez, Freeman, Bradford) have been able to step in and be productive players for their team. That's why I would be very upset if the 49ers pass on a QB in the 1st 2 rounds in such a deep draft at the position.
              I see what you're saying but what happens if we stay with Singletary or hire another damn defensive minded coach (like Nolan was) or a coach who is just happy to have the chance at a head coaching gig?

              Personally, I think it depends on who the HC is going to be. If its some crapper, no way in hell do I want to see us draft another QB in the first round because I think the same damn thing is going to happen that happened with Smith. If its a HC like Gruden or Brian Billick or Cowher, then I wont be as against it because they're all veteran coaches and will hopefully do good with a rookie QB.

              Of course, we just have to wait and see what happens. I'm really hoping for Gruden/McNabb but thats just me.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by dan77733 View Post
                Smith is to blame for a lot of the problems but not all of the problems and in regards to the Eagles game, his fumble was the only problem. After he fumbled, he came back with two quick TD drives where as a lot of QB's would have just given up or allowed to be benched. In the end, I think its 50/50. If Rachal didnt let the defender go who was able to get to Smith, there's no telling what would have happened. Smith could have thrown his 4th TD pass. You cant say either way because thanks to Rachal and Singletary staying with Rachal, we didnt get the chance to see what would have happened if Smith had time to throw.

                As for Gore, the fumbling problem is just one reason. Another reason is that his average thus far is a crappy 3.5. All things considered thats crappy. I wouldnt trade him though unless I was able to sign his replacement first which in case you're curious would be DeAngelo Williams who'll be an UFA. Of course, if I was to get Gruden and McNabb and then sign Williams, oh man, the offense would be far better than what it is now. Plus, McNabb has one of the lowest turnover percentages in history and Williams rarely if ever fumbles the ball. Thats already two positives right there.

                Granted, that's an insane idea but Gore's fumbling problem is just as bad and possibly worse than Smith's turnover problem because he's not the QB and as we all know, the QB gets the blame if the team loses and all the glory if the team wins. Gore losing fumbles just isnt helping matters.

                As for Peterson, he hasnt fumbled thus far this season. Peterson is a great RB but I would take Chris Johnson over him every damn time because he doesnt turn the ball over and ball security is the most important factor because you're not going to win if you keep turning the ball over.
                Did you not see the first interception he threw? You can blame that one on Ginn I suppose, but at the same time guys like Manning, Rivers, Brees, Brady...you never see excuses like these used. Why? Because they get the job done. And if things like that happen, it's not often and it's not talked about because they find ways to score. With Smith it's always a circumstance we have to discuss as a fan base as to "why" Smith failed and who's fault it truly was. This happens all the time. There shouldn't be an investigation every time he throws an interception. We should be talking about the touchdowns he throws more often than the turnovers he creates.

                So Frank Gore's average is below normal for the first time in a while. So? There were talks about Gore being traded last season during the middle and what happened? Gore shut everyone up with his play down the stretch. You have to remember all of the other turmoil that has gone on with this team. Gore shouldn't be the scapegoat for what has happened. He's fumbled a few times sure, but Gore at least has credentials to back up poor performance. He deserves the benefit of the doubt. The season isn't even 1/2 done and you are talking about trading Frank Gore...a guy who has laid it on the line for the 49ers when the rest of the offense has usually been lagging since he's been the starter. He and Vernon Davis are our only proven offensive weapons and you want to trade one a way after a few bad games. Doesn't make sense.

                Peterson hasn't fumbled this season thus far, but who is to stay that he won't if the Vikings reach the playoffs? Or if the Vikings are on the verge of reaching the playoffs. If that happens should he be traded? No, because he's a good player.

                "Every light must fade, every heart return to darkness!"
                -San Francisco 49ers: Five Time Super Bowl Champions-
                Originally posted by Borat
                Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.

                Comment


                • Take out Gore's long TD runs last year and were looking at 3.6 per. Just like what we have through 5 games this year.

                  Rivers is a comparison to look at. Had LT beasting for his 1st 2 years.
                  Did explode his 3rd year but compare the OC he had in year 3 to Smith's.

                  A neat thing is we can see a giant leap with Norv in 2006 as still a very young and inexperienced QB. Gore did beast that year but lost 5 fumbles.

                  2005 Smith was ALL TIME terrible.
                  http://www.pro-football-reference.co...Al03.htm?redir

                  Sack % 1 higher than the worst David Carr.

                  Adjusted net yards per att. Worst of any QB with 40 passes. 1.1
                  Manning was 8.0

                  Manning was 8.0
                  Smith was 1.1

                  If you suck you are at a 3.0

                  In 2006 Smith got the number up to 4.8 just ahead of Matt Hasselbeck, Michael Vick, David Carr.
                  Looking at the almost doubled of the rookie QB rating says a lot but that over 4x increase shows the true improvement that year was.

                  2010 he is 4.4


                  Entering Week 5, quarterbacks had attempted passes under duress 16.6 percent of the time, but Smith has been pressured on 21.6 percent of his attempts.



                  http://espn.go.com/blog/statsinfo/po...148/alex-smith
                  Last edited by ViperVisor; 10-14-2010, 07:54 AM.

                  Comment


                  • ^ Take away all of Philp Rivers completions and he has no completions. See how that logic works when you try to do that with Frank Gore? Fact of the matter is Frank Gore balled last season...and that was his what, fifth year with garbage quarterback play?

                    And I don't know what point you're trying to make about Alex. If it's to say that everything that has happened thus far is all circumstantial evidence and he really doesn't have anything to do with a lot of the problems that have gone on, then I think you've gone nuts.

                    This is all a moot point anyways. Alex Smith is not going to be here after next season.

                    "Every light must fade, every heart return to darkness!"
                    -San Francisco 49ers: Five Time Super Bowl Champions-
                    Originally posted by Borat
                    Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Ness View Post
                      u've gone nuts.

                      This is all a moot point anyways. Alex Smith is not going to be here after next season.
                      Of course your most likely right, but it really depends on what he does in the next 11 games. If the team goes into the bye 3-5 (lol), the two games after the bye are Tampa and STL at home. They could be .500 by week 10. This team has a chance, albeit an infinitely small one, of winning the next three games if they have a change of philosophy. Then if they get to the bye, it would give Mike Johnson two weeks to get rid of Raye's stench completely. The only time this Offense has looked like anything modern has been with a pass-first philosophy, we can only hope the cavemen have figured it out by now. Developing another young QB would be quite a hassle, I really hope they put the Offense in Alex's hands so we can finally see what he has in a modern Offense. Yes, I still have some hope left for some reason, Alex's performance on Sunday was one of the coolest things I've seen from a QB in a freaking long time. It's a shame Anthony Davis failed miserably on that last INT, because I saw Zeigler getting open right in that area.

                      Anyways, I like looking at the Chargers because of what Norv has done with his scheme compared to what he did with the Cowboys. The stuff he's running is way different in philosophy now. Norv has realized it's a passing league and they have a good QB with some weapons, so he's spreading the D out a lot and putting Rivers in shotgun a bunch. It's also interesting because near the end of '06, he was starting to implement a lot more spread formations for Alex; he obviously realized where Alex was most comfortable back in '06. Meanwhile, here we are in '10, trying to run what Norv ran in the early 90s, and failing, and our coaches still haven't discovered the obvious. The whole thing is pretty pathetic really.
                      Last edited by binary; 10-14-2010, 06:26 AM.

                      Comment


                      • Point is we will never know. Too little too late for everyone that has been around the last 5+ years.

                        2005-2008. Over the 4 years the defense was horrible.

                        Averaged out to you still lose with 3 TDs and a FG. Points given up a game over that time was 24.8
                        Defense guy HC could never get that side together.

                        Offense was horrible other than blips up with Norv and Martz. Some of that production is based on the last legs of Larry Allen and Isaac Bruce. O-Line failures over 5 years led us to try and improve it with 40% of it comprised of rooks.

                        Comment


                        • Cheer up, sportsfans. I see there's a trip to Carolina the weekend following the home game vs. the Raiders.

                          With the possible exception of Buffalo, they're the most demoralized & beatable team in the league. Only coach in the NFL on thinner ice than Singletary too. Lose there & it will be b/c of self destructive errors, no way can they get it together to beat somebody.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by LizardState View Post
                            Cheer up, sportsfans. I see there's a trip to Carolina the weekend following the home game vs. the Raiders.

                            With the possible exception of Buffalo, they're the most demoralized & beatable team in the league. Only coach in the NFL on thinner ice than Singletary too. Lose there & it will be b/c of self destructive errors, no way can they get it together to beat somebody.
                            Yeah but if any team can hurt themselves enough to lose to Carolina it is us. Self destructive errors are why we are 0-5 instead of 3-2 or 4-1

                            Comment


                            • Oakland
                              Carolina
                              Denver
                              St Louis
                              Tampa Bay

                              Arizona
                              Green Bay
                              Seattle
                              San Diego
                              St Louis
                              Arizona


                              it on conceivable that they could win 7 games and play themselves out of a top QB

                              Pick the Winners Champion 2008 | 2011

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Brent View Post
                                Oakland
                                Carolina
                                Denver
                                St Louis
                                Tampa Bay

                                Arizona
                                Green Bay
                                Seattle
                                San Diego
                                St Louis
                                Arizona


                                it on conceivable that they could win 7 games and play themselves out of a top QB
                                Winning 7 could lead to Smith being re-signed. If Johnson sticks around, that might be a good thing.

                                If Singletary gets fired, it means Smith will get another OC...

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