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  • Originally posted by king2am View Post
    But...

    What if Peterson, Amukamara, Miller, and Green are all gone by 7 - and nobody wants to trade (parting with picks without a CBA doesn't seem like a good idea right now)?

    Bowers is likely just a 4-3 end, Dareus on the other hand would be an elite 3-4 lineman, so that one makes sense.
    Honestly, have no idea. Would have to make a decision at that time. Of course, I dont think all four will be gone by 7. Prince is the best bet to drop to 7 with Miller second, Green third and Peterson fourth.

    I think Dareus, Bowers and at least one QB will be gone in the first six draft picks which means one of the four will be available at seven.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Brent View Post
      Teams don't trade down, teams trade up. If no team is willing to move up, what do you do? Take someone you don't rate as high? I just want to understand your logic on this, Dan.
      I think if Green is there at 7, a team like WSH would trade up to acquire him. Also, a team that could use a DT would want to trade up ahead of TEN since most expect them to draft a DT at 8.

      If no team wants to trade up and Green is there, I draft him and move forward. If all four players are gone, like I posted above, im not sure. I wouldnt make a decision until that time and see who's already been drafted and who's still available.

      The reason I wouldnt draft Locker at 7 is because I think the team could trade down once or twice, acquire extra draft picks and still draft Locker. And yeah, I know that a team would have to be willing to trade up and im sure that there would be a player available at 7 a team would want/need more than us.

      Of course, I still think that at least one of the top four will be on the board at 7. Just have to wait and see.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by dan77733 View Post
        HELL YEAH!!! Newton seems like Vince Young part two who was Michael Vick part two. Well, Falcons version of Vick. Plus, I can see that guy and his father causing problems. I dont want that guy period.

        Gabbert is better and prefer him over Newton but I still wouldnt draft him at 7. None of these QB's are worth the 7th overall draft pick and personally, the longer the "lockout" lasts, the more reasons there are NOT to draft or trade for a QB because that guy wont have enough time to learn the system and I dont want the guy to be thrown in like Alex was back in 2005. He was rushed into the starting lineup. Dont want that to happen again.
        I disagree the talent level of the '05 team was the worse in the league and the record proved that. It was the worse situation that a long term project, like Alex, could have stepped into. If the 49ers drafted Gabbert or Newton they would be stepping in with a young offensive line, a TE who can post double digit touchdowns, former 1,000 yard running back, and an above average WR core. It is the perfect time to invest into a young signalcaller.

        And in all honestly, I would have no problem drafting Green if the other three are gone because Crabtree is more of a possession receiver and could use a player like Green to push him to work harder since he wouldnt automatically be the number one WR. Worse case scenario, draft Green and trade Crabtree in a year if he doesnt improve. Would most likely gain a late first rounder for him and including our own first rounder in 2012, we would be able to trade up for a QB if needed.
        I was for Dez Bryant last season but that was only because SF had two first round picks and they were outside of the top 10 picks. I think Green is a damn good player but I would rather grab the best defensive player at that spot then load up at a spot that we are already set at.

        Hiring a new HC, OC and DC in an off season that could be eliminated or more likely very short isnt going to help us whatsoever. Add in the fact that it seems like we could lose Baas, Franklin, Lawson, Spikes, Goldson and possibly Clements and we're an average team at best with or with out a "franchise" QB because that guy isnt going to have enough time to make an impact for us in 2011 anyway.
        I would give up a year to develop a franchise QB. That position is so important to how far a team goes and you have seen first hand what happens when it does not work out. I think the reward outweighs the risk and would rather risk a pick in round 1 then draft one later or even trade for one. That is why you see guys like Mike Lombardi and Dan Reeves talk about giving up so much for a QB. It is the hardest position to evalute and fill in the league.

        No thanks to Kolb who thinks that he's better than what he is - an average couldnt even beat out an ex-con concussion prone QB period. Anything higher than a 3rd for Kolb, I will run a muck. And in no way, shape or form would I trade away my 7th overall draft pick for any QB this year whatsoever especially when Peterson, Prince, Green and even Miller easily surpass any QB that we would acquire via trade in regards to skill, talent, potential and upside.
        He couldn't beat out a guy who finished 2nd in MVP voting last season. I thought a Philly beat writer had a nice stat breakdown of Kevin Kolb:
        http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/m...he-market.html

        However, when looking at Kolb's numbers, it's important to judge them fairly. There have been six games in the past two seasons where Kolb has had a week of practice to prepare as the starter. He did so against the Chiefs and Saints in 2009.

        And he did so against Green Bay, the 49ers, the Falcons and the Titans last season. I'm not counting the Cowboys game when he was surrounded by backups.

        In those games, he completed 64 percent of his passes for 1,552 yards, nine touchdowns and six interceptions for a QB rating of 89.76.

        Kolb is 26, and it's reasonable to assume that he could be a very good starting quarterback in the next couple of years if he gets the right coaching and is put in the right system.
        What I found appealing about Kolb is that he is a great fit for the 49ers system, high pedigree (former 2nd round pick), and has been surround by great offensive coaches. Judging by past cases such as Matt Hasselbeck, Jake Delhomme, and Matt Schaub this is a solid formula (IMO) for success.

        I do agree with you on Matt Flynn. He does not hit on the same scale of Kolb in terms of arm strength but he hits on all the things I brought up above, aside from being a 7th round draft pick, and I love how accurate he is.
        Last edited by WhatWouldBillyBajemaDo?; 03-21-2011, 01:02 AM.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by WhatWouldBillyBajemaDo? View Post

          I do agree with you on Matt Flynn. He does not hit on the same scale of Kolb in terms of arm strength but he hits on all the things I brought up above, aside from being a 7th round draft pick, and I love how accurate he is.
          Come on man. Matt Flynn? That guy looked like he really didn't know what he was doing when he started against New England. Looked very erratic. Not bad for a 7th round draft selection and he might be a good backup, but at this point he doesn't look like anything more. That Super Bowl team made him look greater than he actually is in my mind. Doesn't matter anyways. Mike McCarthy said the team has no interest in dealing him. So it's a moot point.

          "Every light must fade, every heart return to darkness!"
          -San Francisco 49ers: Five Time Super Bowl Champions-
          Originally posted by Borat
          Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Ness View Post
            Come on man. Matt Flynn? That guy looked like he really didn't know what he was doing when he started against New England. Looked very erratic. Not bad for a 7th round draft selection and he might be a good backup, but at this point he doesn't look like anything more. That Super Bowl team made him look greater than he actually is in my mind. Doesn't matter anyways. Mike McCarthy said the team has no interest in dealing him. So it's a moot point.
            I thought he played great against one of the best teams in the league.
            24/37 (64%) 3 TDs 1 INT 251 Yards and 100.2
            Here is the cut up of every pass from the game:
            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_C8F0cWvAfo

            Like I said above not impressed with his arm strength but he is a QB that hits on everything Harbaugh looks for. Accurate, mobile, sells the play-action well, and off the chart intangibles.

            Flynn also fits a lot of the criteria you look for in past back-ups that have gone onto have long term success in the league. Flynn has sat for a few years, fits the 49ers offense, and coached by a great staff. Not saying I would sell the farm on Flynn but if the other guys price themselves out of the 49ers range Flynn is not a bad fall back plan.
            Last edited by WhatWouldBillyBajemaDo?; 03-21-2011, 02:09 AM.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by WhatWouldBillyBajemaDo? View Post
              I thought he played great against one of the best teams in the league.
              24/37 (64%) 3 TDs 1 INT 251 Yards and 100.2
              Here is the cut up of every pass from the game:
              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_C8F0cWvAfo

              Like I said above not impressed with his arm but he is a QB that hits on everything Harbaugh looks for. Accurate, mobile, sells the play-action well, and off the chart intangibles.

              Flynn also fits a lot of the criteria you look for in past back-ups that have gone onto have long term success in the league. Flynn has sat for a few years, fits the 49ers offense, and coached by a great staff. Not saying I would sell the farm on Flynn but if the other guys price themselves out of the 49ers range Flynn is not a bad fall back plan.
              Yes I know I remember that game. To cut him some slack, it was his first start against the best team in the NFL (at the time) away from home. However, he just seemed really erratic and trigger happy. Hopefully all he needs is experience. But really, wouldn't get too excited. We've all seen this story before with guys like Tim Rattay, Billy Volek, Todd Collins, and Damon Huard. Flynn might be the next best thing, but honestly I wouldn't give up more than a fourth round pick for him, and that is if he was available which he isn't. So I guess that ends that.

              "Every light must fade, every heart return to darkness!"
              -San Francisco 49ers: Five Time Super Bowl Champions-
              Originally posted by Borat
              Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by thediggler3030 View Post
                First Mock of the year, tell me what ya think!

                PS I've heard we will get a third 7th as a comp pick, so I included it!

                1. Patrick Peterson, LSU, CB
                2. Colin Kaepernick, Nevada, QB
                3. Chris Carter, Fresno St., OLB
                4. Kendrick Ellis, Hampton, NT
                4. Deunta Williams, UNC, FS
                5. Dwayne Harris, ECU, WR
                6. Richard Sherman, Stanford, CB
                6. Derek Hall, Stanford, OT
                7. Anthony Sherman, UConn., FB
                7. Nic Grigsby, Arizona, RB
                7. Mario Addison, Troy, OLB
                Love your list -- really love me some Ellis, who's being talked about as a 2nd-rounder b/c his stock is skyrocketing now after his workouts, always been high on Deunta Williams & still am despite his injury, he's the free safety young legs they crave to supplement Mays, Harris could be the mid-rd. value WR to play opposite Crabtree in the slot, you've got a lotta UConn Huskies there, you from Connecticut diggler? -- with these slight exceptions:
                • a) Peterson will be long gone by the 7th pick, nobody wants to risk trading talent away in this unstable CBA renegotiation yr to move up, still having said that teams with serious defensive needs like the Houston Texans at #11, the Skins right before them at 10, formidable Dallas with more draft day trades than any other team at 9, + Cleveland & the Cincy Bengals despite their QB desperations, before the 9ers have been rumored to be interested in Peterson, & why not? he's got like a 99% rating -- not that anyone believes anything any team says before the draft in any case. If Harbaugh wants Locker or any other top tier QB, #7 is where he has to pull that trigger, but I don't see him going that direction. Better to take the DE/OLB they've needed opposite Smith for QB pressure, Quinn if they can overlook his missed time last season, or Cam Jordan which would really irk Dallas b/c they're allegedly high on him too, or of course red hot Von Miller who will likely be gone by #7 but if he falls to him that would be pennies from heaven twice in 3 yrs (Crabtree falling into their laps was the 1st penny). Any way you perceive it there will be a jewel impact rookie defensive starter there for Harbaugh at #7 & he knows it full well, just as he knows not to bank on PP.
                • b) Kaepernick in the 2nd? I love his arm & footspeed, mobility would be a welcome relief in the pocket these last 5 yrs after Alex Smith & the fumble-prone JT O'Sullivan, but I think Ponder or Dalton might be better for your textbook pocket passer guy (or even a placeholderfor Luck in 2012? I can dream can't I?).......... just a hunch more than anything. Besides, Kaepernick is too obvious with his exclusive 9er workout at Squaw Valley & the way they gushed over him at Reno on his pro day, & he too could be gone by the early 2nd if the run on QBs everyone is predicting happens in the late 1st.
                • c) Chris Carter in the 3rd -- I know they love Fresno St. Bulldogs in 49erland, but Nevada Wolfpack players are local too, Dontay Moch is slightly smaller but faster than a speeding bullet with his scorching 40 time. Again he could be gone after the recognition he received with his Combine workout, but I would rather have Moch if he's there.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Ness View Post
                  Yes I know I remember that game. To cut him some slack, it was his first start against the best team in the NFL (at the time) away from home. However, he just seemed really erratic and trigger happy. Hopefully all he needs is experience. But really, wouldn't get too excited. We've all seen this story before with guys like Tim Rattay, Billy Volek, Todd Collins, and Damon Huard. Flynn might be the next best thing, but honestly I wouldn't give up more than a fourth round pick for him, and that is if he was available which he isn't. So I guess that ends that.
                  Erratic and trigger happy??? Come on man. He didnt seem erratic at all after watching that video and he was pressured on almost every pass attempt. As for being trigger happy, GB didnt have a running game until the end of the season and in the playoffs so what else would you expect him to do? Hand it off?

                  He's very accurate and thats what matters most in the WCO but yet, he can still gun it when he has to. Flynn is easily a better prospect in regards to being a franchise QB than Kolb would be. After all, a year after trading away McNabb so Kolb could be franchise QB, Reid now wants to trade him? Of course, it makes sense since his value is high and he'll be an UFA in 2012 but I also think that Reid is willing to trade Kolb because he no longer has any confidence in him and that says more to me to anything anyone says.

                  Either way, I would offer a 3rd for Flynn, take it or leave it. And in no way, shape or form would I trade anything higher than a 3rd for Kolb either because unlike Flynn, he's concussion prone and quite honestly, he's not that good. If anything, he's average at best. Reid wants a first rounder for Kolb and I sincerely hope that if he gets that first rounder, its not from us because I'll be super pissed.

                  Also, I think Flynn is a better fit for us and I also dont like Kolb mouthing off saying he wants to be a starter and all that. He had his chance at being the franchise QB in Philly and even when healthy, still couldnt even beat out Vick. Sorry, but I have no interest in Kolb whatsoever. Let the Seahawks and Cardinals give up their first rounder for him. That will only help us.

                  And as far as McCarthy saying Flynn isnt going anywhere, give me a break. Anything anyone says is more full of crap than poetry especially around draft time. If the Packers get at least a 3rd for Flynn, he's as good as gone.

                  Comment


                  • Almost forgot..........Rattay wasnt a bad QB and you can see that from when he played in 2003 but what did you expect him to do in 2004 after his starting RB, both starting WR's, starting LT and starting RG were all let go in the off-season? Plus, add in the fact that the starting C Newberry missed the entire season and well, he sure as hell wasnt going to do a damn thing.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by WhatWouldBillyBajemaDo? View Post
                      I thought he played great against one of the best teams in the league.
                      24/37 (64%) 3 TDs 1 INT 251 Yards and 100.2
                      Here is the cut up of every pass from the game:
                      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_C8F0cWvAfo

                      Like I said above not impressed with his arm strength but he is a QB that hits on everything Harbaugh looks for. Accurate, mobile, sells the play-action well, and off the chart intangibles.

                      Flynn also fits a lot of the criteria you look for in past back-ups that have gone onto have long term success in the league. Flynn has sat for a few years, fits the 49ers offense, and coached by a great staff. Not saying I would sell the farm on Flynn but if the other guys price themselves out of the 49ers range Flynn is not a bad fall back plan.
                      I think both Flynn and Kolb would fit in with the WCO that Harbaugh is going to run but I dont think Kolb is as good as people think he is. Personally, I think he's overrated but thats just me.

                      I wouldnt give up more than a 3rd for either but rather have Flynn easily. Eagles want a first rounder and rumor has it that a team is actually willing to give up a first rounder for him but that Reid wants a higher first rounder. My guess would be SEA who's in the 20's somewhere. No way in hell would I trade my 7th overall draft pick (or even a 2nd rounder) to PHI for Kolb.

                      Plus, the last time we traded for a player from PHI, it was DE Brandon Whiting. How did that work out for us??? I say stay far far away from Philly.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by dan77733 View Post

                        ...I also dont like Kolb mouthing off saying he wants to be a starter and all that.

                        ...still couldnt even beat out Vick.
                        You want the guy to say that he's ok to be a back-up QB after playing out his original contract? Come on.

                        Not many QB's in the NFL could have beat out Mike Vick for a starting job last year.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by farfromforgotten View Post
                          You want the guy to say that he's ok to be a back-up QB after playing out his original contract? Come on.

                          Not many QB's in the NFL could have beat out Mike Vick for a starting job last year.
                          Dont like the fact that he's basically mouthing off to the media yet no one sees a problem with it but if that was T.O., forget about it. But unlike T.O., Kolb hasnt done a damn thing worthy of mouthing off and it was his job to lose and he lost it not once but twice. Sorry, he sucks, is a whiner and I dont want that guy. Let him go to ARZ or SEA. That way, our secondary can finally get some INTs.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by dan77733 View Post
                            Plus, the last time we traded for a player from PHI, it was DE Brandon Whiting. How did that work out for us??? I say stay far far away from Philly.
                            Dude, enough with the T.O. trade to Philly for Brandon Whiting. First of all, do you not remember the circumstances behind that deal? You know that Owens' agent screwed up the paperwork and T.O. technically wasn't able to file for free agency, making him 49er property? You understand that T.O. is a petulant little child that despite the fact the 9ers could have theoretically keep him, they wouldn't let a piece of **** like him ruin the franchise by keeping him around? So, you understand that anything they were able to get for him was basically for free? Stop bashing the team for getting something for nothing. Oh, and by the way, you know that the 9ers also got a 3rd round pick as well as Whiting right?
                            The Brian Sabean sig is no more. I disagreed with you on so many levels. And then you went out and built a dynasty. I am lame.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by LizardState View Post
                              Love your list -- really love me some Ellis, who's being talked about as a 2nd-rounder b/c his stock is skyrocketing now after his workouts, always been high on Deunta Williams & still am despite his injury, he's the free safety young legs they crave to supplement Mays, Harris could be the mid-rd. value WR to play opposite Crabtree in the slot, you've got a lotta UConn Huskies there, you from Connecticut diggler? -- with these slight exceptions:
                              • a) Peterson will be long gone by the 7th pick, nobody wants to risk trading talent away in this unstable CBA renegotiation yr to move up, still having said that teams with serious defensive needs like the Houston Texans at #11, the Skins right before them at 10, formidable Dallas with more draft day trades than any other team at 9, + Cleveland & the Cincy Bengals despite their QB desperations, before the 9ers have been rumored to be interested in Peterson, & why not? he's got like a 99% rating -- not that anyone believes anything any team says before the draft in any case. If Harbaugh wants Locker or any other top tier QB, #7 is where he has to pull that trigger, but I don't see him going that direction. Better to take the DE/OLB they've needed opposite Smith for QB pressure, Quinn if they can overlook his missed time last season, or Cam Jordan which would really irk Dallas b/c they're allegedly high on him too, or of course red hot Von Miller who will likely be gone by #7 but if he falls to him that would be pennies from heaven twice in 3 yrs (Crabtree falling into their laps was the 1st penny). Any way you perceive it there will be a jewel impact rookie defensive starter there for Harbaugh at #7 & he knows it full well, just as he knows not to bank on PP.
                              • b) Kaepernick in the 2nd? I love his arm & footspeed, mobility would be a welcome relief in the pocket these last 5 yrs after Alex Smith & the fumble-prone JT O'Sullivan, but I think Ponder or Dalton might be better for your textbook pocket passer guy (or even a placeholderfor Luck in 2012? I can dream can't I?).......... just a hunch more than anything. Besides, Kaepernick is too obvious with his exclusive 9er workout at Squaw Valley & the way they gushed over him at Reno on his pro day, & he too could be gone by the early 2nd if the run on QBs everyone is predicting happens in the late 1st.
                              • c) Chris Carter in the 3rd -- I know they love Fresno St. Bulldogs in 49erland, but Nevada Wolfpack players are local too, Dontay Moch is slightly smaller but faster than a speeding bullet with his scorching 40 time. Again he could be gone after the recognition he received with his Combine workout, but I would rather have Moch if he's there.
                              A. I like Peterson, I agree he may be gone by the 7th pick. I would be just as happy with prince though, so this mock would be fine with Amukamura at the top as well.

                              I would be fine with an OLB/DE at 7 as well, but I doubt Miller is there and I'm weary on Quinn. I would rather Prince than Quinn. I rank it like this: Dareus, Peterson, Miller, Prince, Quinn, Jordan. Not counting QB's.

                              B. I picked Kaepernick for a reason. I'm assuming if we wait until round 2 we will be pick from a list that does not include Newton, Gabbert, Locker, Mallett and Ponder. I think those 5 will be gone. I would be fine with any of them to say the truth, as long as Harbaugh got his guy. Kaepernick just has the highest upside, and if Jim thinks he can play in his offense than I would be very happy.

                              Long story short on the Kaepernick pick, I would LOVE to see Harbaugh develop him, but I will be happy with any QB we pick, for the sole reason that we FINALLY have someone who knows how to develop whoever we take!

                              C. One reason I am fine with taking a CB in round 1 is because the passrusher depth is really good this year. Moch would be fine, but I picked Carter over him for a few reasons:
                              1. I think someone will reach for Moch in round 2, Raiders? :D
                              2. Carter has a more developed passrush repertoire than Moch. Moch is a speedrusher that is too dependent on his agility. Carter is better at disengaging from blockers.
                              3. Carter has experience at LB.

                              I would be fine with Carter or Moch though, both would bring some athleticism to our passrush!

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Borat View Post
                                Dude, enough with the T.O. trade to Philly for Brandon Whiting. First of all, do you not remember the circumstances behind that deal? You know that Owens' agent screwed up the paperwork and T.O. technically wasn't able to file for free agency, making him 49er property? You understand that T.O. is a petulant little child that despite the fact the 9ers could have theoretically keep him, they wouldn't let a piece of **** like him ruin the franchise by keeping him around? So, you understand that anything they were able to get for him was basically for free? Stop bashing the team for getting something for nothing. Oh, and by the way, you know that the 9ers also got a 3rd round pick as well as Whiting right?
                                I remember all of that. I also remember the 49ers having a trade worked out with the Ravens yet T.O. didnt want to go there and the 49ers gave in to him so while he was still under contract with the 49ers, management decided to help him get traded to Philly instead.

                                Oh please, give me a break that T.O. ruins franchises. He doesnt. He's just used as the scapegoat and who gives a crap if he's a little child, he's still the last best receiver we had and I seriously doubt that you were bitching when he was scoring TD's and winning us games so dont give me that crap. And im not bashing the team for trading Owens to Philly, im bashing them for trading him for nothing. I would have kept him. He could have bitched all he wanted and quite honestly, if you look at his stats in 2005 when he and McNabb werent getting along, he was on pace to possibly break records so just imagine if he and McNabb were getting along and if McNabb wasnt playing injured.

                                Quite honestly, I dont give a damn about Owens mouthing off or pissing people off. All I cared about was how he played on the field because thats what he's getting paid for. And after Rice, he was the 49ers second best receiver in history thus far and speaking of receivers, Crabtree held out before finally signing his rookie contract and last off-season, barely if at all participated in training camp due to some bullcrap injury and didnt play in -pre-season because of that bullcrap injury. He's basically a diva but yet I dont see you bitching about him.

                                Not only that and I'll be the first to admit that Owens is an asshole but seriously, who the **** cares??? He's not being paid millions to be nice or kiss ass. He's being paid millions like everyone else is - to play football, make plays and win football games for the team that he's on. His work ethic is easily the best in the league whether anyone agrees with it or not or whether anyone likes it or not. And on gameday, you know he came to play 100% and to win. Ever notice how Owens never got pissed when he was winning? Wanting and having the desire and will to win is what he has and thats what I care about. Does he want to be paid more than he's worth? Of course he does but thats every player so no big deal.

                                We havent been in the playoffs since the 2002 season. Maybe if we had some more players like T.O. who actually give a damn about winning, maybe the team still wouldnt be a shell of their former self. So, you can ***** about Owens being this or being that but the bottom line is that he was and still is one hell of a receiver and a player that helped us win games and to me, in the end, thats all the hell that should count.

                                If it was up to me, I wouldnt give a damn about all this other bullcrap especially when so many players get arrested for drugs, murder, domestic violence, DUI's and whatever else and when you compare Owens to all of those players, Owens being an asshole shouldnt even be a concern. If anything, its nothing to even be concerned about and if thats something you disagree with, then you're screwed up and need some professional certified help.

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