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  • Ughhh, we got bigger issues than Crabtree. Lets move on.
    The Brian Sabean sig is no more. I disagreed with you on so many levels. And then you went out and built a dynasty. I am lame.

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    • Originally posted by Borat View Post
      Ughhh, we got bigger issues than Crabtree. Lets move on.
      And that's really the point I was trying to make, believe it or not. Crabtree should be the least of our worries at this point. Moving on....

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      • I'm worried about NT. I've read rumors that Franklin is going to get a big contract for another team. I don't exactly feel very comfortable with Sopoga.

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        • Originally posted by Victory X View Post
          I'm worried about NT. I've read rumors that Franklin is going to get a big contract for another team. I don't exactly feel very comfortable with Sopoga.
          Absolutely, THIS is my main concern at the moment. I want to believe Franklin will be resigned, but with more teams switching to the odd front, he's going to command top dollar. I dont think Baalke will break the bank to keep him. He's one of the best 0-Tech's in the bussiness. Great techncian and a major reason why our run defense is so stout. And looking at the free agent list, there aren't alot of options. Chris Hoke, Mebane(who Im still iffy about as a 3-4 nose) and a aging Shaun Smith. And the rest aren't even worth mentioning. My guess is if we dont re-sign Franklin, we go after one of the better 5-techs on the market like Cullen Jenkins, Jacques Cesaire, or Marcus Spears and hope Sopoaga can provide steady play(a big ?). But that still leaves little depth behind him. After re-signing Baas, addressing the D-Line becomes top priority once the lockout is over.

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          • The thing about NT is that we don't completely know what Fangio is looking for...

            My wishful thinking is that Jean-Francois continues his progress and is able to fill in. The improved pass rush, with Aldon Smith, will also -- hopefully -- help out the D-Line. Another thing is that in the last couple of years, the d-line group has ranked pretty high, at least in the run-stopping category.

            I guess I'm just putting faith in the new staff, plus we still have Tomsula!

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            • Originally posted by VAfy-ya View Post
              He's one of the best 0-Tech's in the bussiness.
              I've heard this from countless fans recently and it puzzles me. Franklin struggled in Nolan's 0-Tech 3-4/4-3 hybrid. He didn't start to excel until Manusky took the reigns and let them use a penetrating shade at NT.

              Like mentioned in the previous post, alot depends on what Fangio envisions out of his defensive front.

              Regardless, I would be more comfortable knowing Franklin was a fairly priced 49er in 2011.
              Last edited by phlysac; 06-05-2011, 04:57 PM.

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              • Originally posted by edgrenade View Post
                The thing about NT is that we don't completely know what Fangio is looking for...

                My wishful thinking is that Jean-Francois continues his progress and is able to fill in. The improved pass rush, with Aldon Smith, will also -- hopefully -- help out the D-Line. Another thing is that in the last couple of years, the d-line group has ranked pretty high, at least in the run-stopping category.

                I guess I'm just putting faith in the new staff, plus we still have Tomsula!
                Very true about what kind of a NT Fangio perfers but my thing is, whether he's looking for more of a 2-gapper or not, there are very little options out there regardless of his preference. Let's say he is looking for more of a tree trunk at NT....what are his options? Alan Branch? Hell No! Pat Williams? Too old. Howard Green? Too old and too bad. Its just really bare as far as talent goes. And RJF at NT won't cut it. He's very active when he's in there and he'd be ok for a few snaps a game but he's really a 5-Tech moonlighting as a NT. He can't anchor nearly as well as a true nose and you could see last year in the pre-season when he played extended snaps. Evetually he'll get worn down and and as the game wears on, he'll get blown off the line. I commend the guy for showing verstality bit if he's your main back-up at NT, your 3-4 is in trouble. I really wish they would have left him at DE. He'd be ready to challenge for some serious minutes this upcoming season. I thought he flashed a ton of potential at DE.

                If Fangio uses more of the 1-gap scheme he used with Stanford last year, Franklin is most defintelty the best option. He could actually probably do more with him, scheme-wise, than he was able to do with Fua. But if he is looking for more of a true 2-gapper, we might see him slide Sopoaga over. Now Ice isn't nearly the NT Franklin is, though he has improved his technique as a DE. The thing I worry about is he was moved to DE for a reason. And he himself has said he perfers DE over nose. So do you move him away from his comfort zone knowing it might mean a drop-off in his level of play? Did I mention, I love talking football, lol.

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                • Originally posted by phlysac View Post
                  I've heard this from countless fans recently and it puzzles me. Franklin struggled in Nolan's 0-Tech 3-4/4-3 hybrid. He didn't start to excel until Manusky took the reigns and let them use a penetrating shade at NT.

                  Like mentioned in the previous post, alot depends on what Fangio envisions out of his defensive front.

                  Regardless, I would be more comfortable knowing Franklin was a fairly priced 49er in 2011.
                  Its not really puzzling if you think about it. Nolan's hybrid had Franklin more as 2-gapper. But it also moved him around alot, from 3-4 NT, to 1-tech, to 3-Tech in a even front in some instances. Im a firm believer in versatility, but I think too much flip-flopping can stunt growth. Remember, Franklin was a 3rd string project when we signed him as a free-agent. He was still learning. And when you don't bring alot of physical attributes to the table, you have learn to do other things well. And I think simplifying his role and responsibilty, while sticking to one scheme allowed him to work at his technique as a 0-Tech extensively and improve. I also think him and J. Smith just work so well together in our base front, especially versus the run. I think Nolan asked for much more than his ability allowed him to do at that time. But he wasn't really bad under Nolan. He just didn't really stand out because fans saw guys like Sopoaga and Marques Douglass penetrating and making plays, but Franklin was the guy playing his role, freeing those other guys up to do those things. I remember getting into it with posters on another board before the '09 season because they all said Franklin was garbage and we needed a upgrade in the worst way. They all call me crazy for defending the guy but he showed them and the rest of those not in the know that year just how good he really was.
                  Last edited by VAfy-ya; 06-05-2011, 11:05 PM.

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                  • I'm not trying to argue but your post is exactly why I'm puzzled...

                    He played a 0-tech under Nolan and NOT under Manuskey, at least as far as what I remember seeing and reading.

                    However, Fangio will be running a bit of a hybrid, himself.


                    We will see just how important the 49ers see the need at NT.

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                    • End of drama.... Crabtree is here.

                      List of players at Camp Smith

                      Here's the list of 49ers players who attended today's offensive minicamp. Some notable no-shows were Frank Gore, whom Alex Smith indicated would take part and who could show up later this week, and offensive lineman Adam Snyder, who has heretofore been a stalwart at the 49ers' workouts at San Jose State.

                      Quarterbacks
                      Alex Smith
                      David Carr
                      Colin Kaepernick

                      Running backs
                      Anthony Dixon
                      Kendall Hunter
                      Moran Norris

                      Wide receivers
                      Michael Crabtree
                      Ted Ginn
                      Ronald Johnson
                      Kevin Jurovich
                      Josh Morgan
                      Kyle Williams
                      Dominique Zeigler (is running after ACL injury, but not yet running pass routes).

                      Tight ends
                      Nate Byham
                      Vernon Davis
                      Delanie Walker

                      Offensive linemen
                      Anthony Davis
                      Mike Iupati
                      Mike Person
                      Joe Staley
                      *Daniel Kilgore's agent said his client would be on hand this week.

                      In addition, there were five defensive linemen present. They, however, are part of the group that regularly works out at San Jose State and did not take part in any of Monday's practice drills with the offensive players. They are:

                      OLB Parys Haralson
                      DL Ray McDonald
                      DL Justin Smith
                      DL Isaac Sopoaga
                      S Curtis Taylor
                      http://blogs.sacbee.com/49ers/archiv...f-players.html

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by phlysac View Post
                        I'm not trying to argue but your post is exactly why I'm puzzled...

                        He played a 0-tech under Nolan and NOT under Manuskey, at least as far as what I remember seeing and reading.

                        However, Fangio will be running a bit of a hybrid, himself.


                        We will see just how important the 49ers see the need at NT.
                        No, he played 0-Tech for both coaches. Nolan just had Franklin as primarily a 2-gaper. He would move him around some but his responsibilty was pretty much the same wherever he lined-up though. Under Manusky, he was allow to penetrate more. Our scheme was more 1-gap oriented under Manusky, which I belived was influenced from his time in San Deigo, coaching under their DC at the time, Wade Phillips.

                        And I'm not sure about Fangio's use of a hybrid. He'll employ some four man lines in nickel situations but that's not the same as running a true hybrid. Most 3-4 teams have even looks in their nickel packages so its not out of the ordinary. But I'd be surprised to see him play extended snaps with a four-man front using base personel.

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                        • Originally posted by VAfy-ya View Post
                          No, he played 0-Tech for both coaches. Nolan just had Franklin as primarily a 2-gaper. He would move him around some but his responsibilty was pretty much the same wherever he lined-up though. Under Manusky, he was allow to penetrate more. Our scheme was more 1-gap oriented under Manusky, which I belived was influenced from his time in San Deigo, coaching under their DC at the time, Wade Phillips.
                          That's what I'm saying. A 1-gap penetrating NT isn't a 0-Tech. A 0-Tech (at least in my understanding) is faceup with the Center and 2-gaps (responsible for both A-gaps.) If Franklin shades (as I assumed he did under Manusky) it would be 1-technique or 2-technique, which is responsible for one A-gap or the other.

                          None of this matters if Franklin returns or the 49ers have other options they are happy with.

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                          • double post
                            Last edited by VAfy-ya; 06-06-2011, 08:20 PM.

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                            • Originally posted by phlysac View Post
                              That's what I'm saying. A 1-gap penetrating NT isn't a 0-Tech. A 0-Tech (at least in my understanding) is faceup with the Center and 2-gaps (responsible for both A-gaps.) If Franklin shades (as I assumed he did under Manusky) it would be 1-technique or 2-technique, which is responsible for one A-gap or the other.

                              None of this matters if Franklin returns or the 49ers have other options they are happy with.
                              But Franklin doesn't penetrate all the time. He's primary function is still to clog gaps, but he's also a very effective 1-gapper. Technique just defines where the lineman lines up relative to the O-Lineman but their responsiblity once the ball is snap may change, depending on the formation and personel. You can pentrate out of the 0-Tech position. You can have your NT and the LDE 2-gapping, while the RDE 1-gaps. You can have both your DE's 1-gap while the NT 2-gaps. You can have all 3 guys 2-gap or all 3 lineman 1-gap. Just depends on what the play-call dictates and the way the LB's are used in corespondence to the line calls. What makes Franklin so good is he can do both really well. He may not be a "push the pocket" kind of 2-gapper, but he can clog and occupy blockers with the best of them. I think he's better at penetrating and slipping blocks than people give him credit. Only NT better than him at it is Ratcliff.

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                              • Originally posted by phlysac View Post
                                End of drama.... Crabtree is here.
                                Guess I was wrong...

                                Originally posted by Michael Crabtree
                                Who's the quarterback?
                                Originally posted by Matt Barrows
                                Alex Smith.
                                Originally posted by Michael Crabtree
                                He's the quarterback? I'm just asking.
                                Originally posted by Michael Crabtree
                                Whoever the quarterback is I'm gonna do my job. I'm going to do the best I can to get whatever he needs. You know what I'm saying? That's just how it's going to be. I'm not one-sided. I'm for whoever's the quarterback. It's just how I've been. Everybody knows that.
                                Originally posted by Matt Barrows
                                But wouldn't you agree that it appears as if Smith is going to be that guy this year?
                                Originally posted by Michael Crabtree
                                I wish I could tell you that. I know that you're all scratching at it. I wish I could tell you who is going to be the quarterback. I don't know. I don't know. Whoever the quarterback is, I'm 100 percent down with it and I'm ready to go. That's it.
                                :(

                                That's some of what Crabtree said. Now compare that to what Vernon Davis had to say...

                                Originally posted by Tim Kawakami
                                What does it say to you that Alex will be doing all this organizing, without a contract?
                                Originally posted by Vernon Davis
                                I'm not surprised because I know Alex. I've been here with him. That's what leaders do. He's a leader. He's trying to set an example. And that's what we need around here. We need Alex to step up like he's doing.
                                Originally posted by Tim Kawakami
                                When you're in the room, who's running the sessions?
                                Originally posted by Vernon Davis
                                Alex. Alex. That's his job, he's the quarterback, he has to. That's what quarterbacks are supposed to do. That's what you want him to do. You want him to be that leader. Any time you have any questions offensively, you should go to Alex. He should break everything down to you.
                                Originally posted by Tim Kawakami
                                He's up on the grease board?
                                Originally posted by Vernon Davis
                                Yeah, he's doing pretty much what the coaches would do. Projector, the plays, we're taking notes. Things like that.
                                Originally posted by Tim Kawakami
                                But he's not even on the roster.
                                Originally posted by Vernon Davis
                                He will be.
                                Last edited by phlysac; 06-06-2011, 10:45 PM.

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