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  • Originally posted by Ness View Post
    Yeah, Baalke wasn't in charge. I knew you would say that. Regardless, he was still here and was an assistant to Scott Mcloughlin. He wasn't the trigger man, but he was around. He's been a scout, and then director for player personnel for a long time. He has brought us a lot of notable players for this roster. He also swung and missed on an entire NFL draft.

    And I never said that we don't get Harbaugh without Baalke. This isn't about who is responsible for how Harbs got here. It's about who is more replaceable. To me that is Baalke. You can have all the talent in the world and still suck because you have bad coaching. I don't want to go through that garbage again. Harbaugh has had success everywhere he's been with a variety of different people. I don't see why that would suddenly change because Baalke isn't in his life. A lot of players that Harbaugh recruited at Stanford are now in the NFL having success too. Who was Trent Baalke before Harbaugh?
    Like I said EVERY successful NFL franchise who has sustainable success starts with management. Packers and Ted Thompson, Steelers and Colbert, Ravens and Ozzie, NE who has had their front-office purged by nearly every team in the league. It starts there. I never said JH wouldn't be successful without Baalke. But its laughable that your comparing being successful in college to MAINTAINIG success at the pro level. Two completely different worlds with salary cap and free agency. JH will be successful wherever he lands. But to what degree depends entirely on the talent around him. He isn't some of God-like figure because we started winning we he got here. Talent was already here, he just knew the right buttons to push. We were always labeled as talented but underwhelming team before his arrival. We just never played up to expectations. Its not like he came here and turned water into wine with medicore players and fringe roster talent. I sure give him a ton of credit for Alex but with his background as a QB, I expected him to. Like I said, he's one of the most talented coaches in the league. I have no doubt about his abilities to lead men. But you put him somewhere with piss-poor management and so-so talent and he will stink up the place just like anybody else.

    Baalke worked his way up the ranks, like any good GM. To knock him because he came up under guys who weren't successful here is lame argument and isn't grounded in any logic whatsoever. As soon as he became a GM, the organization had successs on the field, he won Executive Of The Year, and is now responsible for one if the most talented teams in the league. What happen before he was GM is competely irrelevant. As a GM, he's been just as impressive as JH has been as a HC because their success has to be tied together. There's no other way around it. We're obviously not going to see eye to eye on this. I'm hopefully that BOTH guys hash out their differences and understand they wouldn't be as successful without the other. But JH just seems to be that alpha male type that wants to be holding all the cards and as long as Jed and Baalke are running the show, I'm not sure how that's going to happen. I have no evidence of this but, just a hunch.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by VAfy-ya View Post
      Like I said EVERY successful NFL franchise who has sustainable success starts with management. Packers and Ted Thompson, Steelers and Colbert, Ravens and Ozzie, NE who has had their front-office purged by nearly every team in the league. It starts there. I never said JH wouldn't be successful without Baalke. But its laughable that your comparing being successful in college to MAINTAINIG success at the pro level. Two completely different worlds with salary cap and free agency. JH will be successful wherever he lands. But to what degree depends entirely on the talent around him. He isn't some of God-like figure because we started winning we he got here. Talent was already here, he just knew the right buttons to push. We were always labeled as talented but underwhelming team before his arrival. We just never played up to expectations. Its not like he came here and turned water into wine with medicore players and fringe roster talent. I sure give him a ton of credit for Alex but with his background as a QB, I expected him to. Like I said, he's one of the most talented coaches in the league. I have no doubt about his abilities to lead men. But you put him somewhere with piss-poor management and so-so talent and he will stink up the place just like anybody else.

      Baalke worked his way up the ranks, like any good GM. To knock him because he came up under guys who weren't successful here is lame argument and isn't grounded in any logic whatsoever. As soon as he became a GM, the organization had successs on the field, he won Executive Of The Year, and is now responsible for one if the most talented teams in the league. What happen before he was GM is competely irrelevant. As a GM, he's been just as impressive as JH has been as a HC because their success has to be tied together. There's no other way around it. We're obviously not going to see eye to eye on this. I'm hopefully that BOTH guys hash out their differences and understand they wouldn't be as successful without the other. But JH just seems to be that alpha male type that wants to be holding all the cards and as long as Jed and Baalke are running the show, I'm not sure how that's going to happen. I have no evidence of this but, just a hunch.
      Okay. It's laughable you always think it's about management. Because it isn't. I will say that usually it is, but not always. If this was was the case then why did the Patriots keep rolling when Scott Pioli bounced for Kansas City where he was fired a short time later? Why haven't the Cowboys recovered since the days of Jimmy Johnson?

      And you can't say definitely that Harbaugh would be successful without Trent Baalke. You don't know that for a fact. What we know is that Jim has had success at every level in his career as a head coach working with various organizations and different people. This is fact. Can he do it at the pro level without Baalke at his hip? No one knows, but I'm willing to bet money that he would be able to. And I don't think Baalke is just going to find the next guy to replace Harbaugh and we'll keep on tuning. If you're going to replace Harbaugh you better make sure the next guy is at his level of coaching. Three NFC Championships and one Super Bowl appearance. Yeah good luck trying to find the next coach that can keep that kind of consistency. It's one thing to acquire talent, it's a different thing to know how to utilize it. Before Baalke was in charge we had talent on the field. It was the coaching that killed us. And while you are high on Baalke, I think you should realize that he's not some guy that has been on a hot streak with his decisions either. Missing on the entire 2012 was horrible. And yeah we got some great free agent additions during his tenure thus far, but we also got guys like Brandon Jacobs, Braylon Edwards, and Nnamdi Asomugha that were essentially a waste of time.

      And yes it's obvious we aren't going to see eye to eye on this. You think Baalke is more vital to the franchise. I completely disagree with that. Really Jed York needs to just give Harbaugh his money if that is the only thing that is standing in the way. If Harbaugh wants more power in the organization, then that is something else. If Jed, Baalke, and Paraag Marathe are simply playing hardball with just the money and trying to draw lines in the sand, that is beyond ********.
      Last edited by Ness; 02-25-2014, 07:10 PM.

      "Every light must fade, every heart return to darkness!"
      -San Francisco 49ers: Five Time Super Bowl Champions-
      Originally posted by Borat
      Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.

      Comment


      • http://blogs.mercurynews.com/kawakam...s-aldon-smith/

        Very good read and insight.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by dan77733 View Post
          Per this article, Harbaugh hasn't asked for power in negotiations....he wants a personnel guy who "fits his style". But from another source...

          And that's what makes this soap opera so interesting. York can't capitulate. And it's not just because being bullied by Harbaugh would set a bad precedent. It's because Harbaugh never will be content. It's in his nature to create chaos. He thrives in it. He's the god of discord. If this current crisis is solved, another will pop up in a few months. If general manager Trent Baalke is dismissed, Harbaugh will pick a fight with the next guy.
          http://blogs.sacbee.com/49ers/archiv...#storylink=cpy

          Which means if we choose Harbaugh, we could be in a never ending game where this kind of thing pops up every couple of years. (Thats if we have to choose anyone at all)

          Comment


          • The 49ers have in large part won because of their defense, and that defense is great because it has incredible talent (and is coached incredibly by Vic Fangio and his staff).

            Again: Harbaugh is a great coach, but without the Pro Bowlers, how far really would the 49ers have gone? You must have the talent to start, and to maintain a long run, you must have the ability to keep the conveyor belt going and going.

            –Another example: Jon Gruden was and probably remains a tremendous coach, as he showed in his Raiders tenure and in his first season in Tampa, when he won a Super Bowl with the players acquired by a previous regime.

            –But how good was Gruden’s overall reign in Tampa, when he controlled the drafts and personnel (with Bruce Allen as his right-hand man) and the Bucs’ roster kept getting less and less talented with every new decision Gruden and Allen made?

            –Not very good, it turns out. Gruden wasn’t a personnel guy in many of the same impulsive ways that Harbaugh isn’t a personnel guy–they change their minds too often, they get too upset by one mistake on one day and have a harder time looking at the longer view.

            –And Gruden’s choice for a top exec was just a go-along guy, not a strong personnel hand, which weakened the Buccaneers in the same way that another go-along guy would weaken any long-term Harbaugh regime.

            That means, if you have a good general manager who runs a good scouting department, can run a draft and manage the salary cap, pick veteran free agents and get along decently with others…

            Then that’s not a replaceable “suit,” to use John Madden’s term. That’s a guy you hold onto, if at all possible
            .

            pretty good read.....

            http://blogs.mercurynews.com/kawakam...-it/?utm_sourc
            Last edited by VAfy-ya; 03-03-2014, 04:57 PM.

            Comment


            • Boldin signed!!!!!

              2 years $12 million.

              Awesome

              Comment


              • How far would Harbaugh have gone without the Pro Bowlers? Gee, I don't know. He made the most out of Alex Smith. How far would Walsh have gotten without Montana, Rice, or Lott? How far did Singletary get with the same core group of players in a weaker NFC West? Gotta love how in recent weeks Harbaugh's value to the team has been questioned. Because he's just sooooooooo replaceable. Just because you provide a painter with the best tools, doesn't mean he knows how to utilize them correctly.
                Last edited by Ness; 03-03-2014, 03:22 PM.

                "Every light must fade, every heart return to darkness!"
                -San Francisco 49ers: Five Time Super Bowl Champions-
                Originally posted by Borat
                Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.

                Comment


                • That was a good read. And for the record, I like Gruden as a HC but in no way, shape or form would I give him any more power or control than I would give Harbaugh which for the record would be minimal at best.

                  Baalke baby!!!!!

                  Great to see Boldin re-signed even though im guessing that its more likely to be a one year deal with a "dummy" second year but have to wait and see the details.

                  While its just reports, its said that Kaepernick is looking for a whopping $18m a year. I would laugh in his face as I walk out of the room. My personal feeling right now is for Baalke to go all in for 2014 with the hopes of winning the Super Bowl and then decide on what to do with Harbaugh, Kaepernick, Crabtree and others.

                  If they were to win the Super Bowl next season, I wouldnt have any problem going either way in regards to paying them what they want or franchise/trade them away. Even though I'll admit that I would probably lean towards trading them away/letting them go. Long term, its just not worth the money and bullcrap especially when we have a great overall team and with all the draft picks we have this year and im sure we'll pick up a few for next year, we'll be fine.

                  Comment


                  • Yep nice to Boldin is coming Back!! An 18 mill a year **** that. But I guess he desrves and the 49ers will pay him no doubt. It would be different if we were picking in the top 5 but where not. so we extend him and go from there..

                    Comment


                    • I asked Harbaugh about these rumors. Let's start with the last one first. Can he envision a scenario in which he leaves the 49ers before his contract expires?
                      "No," Harbaugh said. "Zero opportunity or chance of that in my mind."
                      Harbaugh said he would not negotiate in the media. Instead, our conversation was something of an anti-negotiation. He talked about all the things people think he wants.
                      "I see all these reports about how I want to be the highest-paid coach in football," Harbaugh said. "They presume I covet some kind of extension. I have never said to anybody that I want to be the highest-paid coach in football. I have never said that to anybody -- my wife, my brother, my dad. I make plenty of money.
                      "The other one is that I want more power. I have never said that, nor do I want any more power than I have. I coach the team. I've told my owner I don't want any more power. I want to coach the team. And I've never told anybody else otherwise."
                      http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nfl...#ixzz2uxWFT0dA

                      I still believe there is growing tension between JH and the front-office behind the scenes. All these reports didn't just come out of thin air or because its a slow off-season for the media. Sure the media took it and ran with it, but there has to be some rumblings somewhere in that dynamic. But this interview does make me feel better about JH's willingness to work with Baalke and not let it be a distraction to the team, nor letting it distract them from the ultimate goal, which is winning.
                      Last edited by VAfy-ya; 03-03-2014, 10:21 PM.

                      Comment


                      • If Harbaugh doesnt get his extension this off-season, I think that he'll be gone in a year from now. Personally, I would let Harbaugh, Kaepernick and Crabtree all play out 2014 and go from there based on how our season goes.

                        Comment


                        • Here's the article from PFT -

                          Many league and media insiders believe that, if the 49ers and coach Jim Harbaugh don’t work out a long-term extension this offseason, Harbaugh could be gone after the 2014 campaign ends.

                          Harbaugh isn’t among those who believe that.

                          “Zero opportunity or chance of that in my mind,” Harbaugh told Michael Rosenberg of SI.com regarding the possibility that he’ll leave during the final two years of his five-year contract.

                          “I see all these reports about how I want to be the highest-paid coach in football,” Harbaugh said. “They presume I covet some kind of extension. I have never said to anybody that I want to be the highest-paid coach in football. I have never said that to anybody — my wife, my brother, my dad. I make plenty of money.

                          “The other one is that I want more power. I have never said that, nor do I want any more power than I have. I coach the team. I’ve told my owner I don’t want any more power. I want to coach the team. And I’ve never told anybody else otherwise.”

                          Of course, what Harbaugh has said and how he has behaved are two different things. If the widespread reports of tension between Harbaugh and G.M. Trent Baalke regarding personnel issues are accurate, Harbaugh’s role in that tension necessarily conveys that he’d prefer to have his way more often. More power would allow that to happen.

                          As to Harbaugh’s salary, it’s a given that he wants a raise. A significant one. No one has reported he wants to be the highest-paid coach; Matt Maiocco of CSN Bay Area recently reported that Harbaugh wants to be paid like a Super Bowl-winning coach. Some believe Harbaugh wants to increase his pay from $5 million per year to $6.5 million per year, which definitely would not make him the highest-paid coach in the NFL.

                          Actually, it wouldn’t even make him the highest-paid coach in his immediate family.

                          In assessing Harbaugh’s words, let’s also keep in mind the fact that football coaches don’t always tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. Success in football often flows from successfully deceiving the opponent, and many coaches extend on-field ruses like the zone blitz and the play-action pass to other strategic issues that directly or indirectly relate, no matter how tenuously, to overall football interests.

                          For example, Harbaugh insisted two years ago that the 49ers weren’t pursuing Peyton Manning but merely “evaluating” him, in an obvious effort to bolster the confidence of former starting quarterback Alex Smith. Then, after reports emerged of the near trade to Cleveland, Harbaugh drew a line in the far side of the sandbox, claiming he “know[s] nothing” about the possiblity, a day before Browns owner Jimmy Haslam admitted there was an “opportunity” to acquire Harbaugh and 49ers CEO Jed York conceded that the Browns had made an inquiry.

                          While the truth regarding the extent of the talks isn’t known and could the subject of differing perceptions by the teams involved, the idea that Harbaugh knew absolutely nothing about the situation doesn’t seem credible. Which makes it hard to put complete and total faith in anything else he says on the subject of whether he’ll remain the coach of the team for any specific period of time.

                          It’s not in Harbaugh’s or the team’s football interests for him to say now anything that would suggest he won’t be there for the next two years. So he’ll say there’s no chance that he’ll be leaving, for the same reasons former Dolphins coach Nick Saban once declared that he’s not going to be the Alabama coach.
                          Notice the part I put in italics. Harbaugh is simply trying to say the right things. Him not knowing about any conversations between the 49ers and Browns is ********.

                          Like the saying goes...dont ******** a bullshitter.

                          Comment


                          • Whatever Dan.

                            So the "anonymous sources" are full of the truth when they "speak" but Harbaugh is just bullsh!tting when he speaks? You believe anything that fits your agenda.
                            The Brian Sabean sig is no more. I disagreed with you on so many levels. And then you went out and built a dynasty. I am lame.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Borat View Post
                              Whatever Dan.

                              So the "anonymous sources" are full of the truth when they "speak" but Harbaugh is just bullsh!tting when he speaks? You believe anything that fits your agenda.
                              This. So much this.

                              "Every light must fade, every heart return to darkness!"
                              -San Francisco 49ers: Five Time Super Bowl Champions-
                              Originally posted by Borat
                              Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Borat View Post
                                Whatever Dan.

                                So the "anonymous sources" are full of the truth when they "speak" but Harbaugh is just bullsh!tting when he speaks? You believe anything that fits your agenda.
                                I think that EVERYONE bullshits one another period. I do think that there's a lot more to this entire situation and EVERYONE is trying to "save face". Its all about leverage and who comes out as "the man". Its all about ego and stroking their egos. That goes for EVERYONE. Jed lied when he said that there werent any talks with the Browns but then admitted that there was. Harbaugh said he didnt know anything about it even though I think he did as there's just no possible way he couldnt.

                                As for me having an agenda, I dont have any agenda of any kind. To be perfectly honest, I could care less which way all of this goes as im NOT the one paying any of them and whether Harbaugh, Kaepernick and Crabtree get paid or not, I believe that there's a positive and a negative in regards to signing them AND to not signing them.

                                My only concern is that I dont want the team to get in cap hell or be like the Steelers and Cowboys where they just push money from year to year which is simply doing nothing more than delaying the inevitable.

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