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  • Originally posted by Ness View Post
    Meant the defense. My bad.
    I believe from the starters on D they only have 2 left. Suggs and Upshaw.

    Other starters that game for them where: Ngata, Kemoeatu, Jones, Ellerbe, Lewis, Williams, Graham, Reed and Pollard.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Ness View Post
      Reminds me of the 2003 offseason when the 49ers got rid of Garcia, Owens, Hearst, Streets, and a bunch of other role players. Then we went 2-14. Our team appears a lot more talented than that, but it still looks grim in the win department.
      For me, I really believe Harbaugh and his stubbornness kind of undermined the talent. Now I'm not saying Harbaugh wasnt a vital part of our success but after the 2012 season, teams started to figure out the offense. And he refused to adjust or change. That can stiffle a team's momentum and growth. When your leader is headstrong and very gun-ho about runnning into to a brickwall, meanwhile you have players and executives with foresight like, "Don't you see that brickwall ahead?", but he's steadily saying "full speed ahead", it can cause dysfunction. You remove that element and guys now start to feel hey, the reins are off...we may actually be able to look and function like a REAL NFL offense. That confidence breeds comrade, cohesion, and a sense of purpose. This team may not have the star power of previous teams under Harbaugh but it defintely has enough talent to surprise the naysayers and doomsayers.
      Last edited by VAfy-ya; 06-09-2015, 12:14 PM.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by VAfy-ya View Post
        For me, I really believe Harbaugh and his stubbornness kind of undermined the talent. Now I'm not saying Harbaugh wasnt a vital part of our success but after the 2012 season, teams started to figure out the offense. And he refused to adjust or change. That can stiffle a team's momentum and growth. When your leader is headstrong and very gun-ho about runnning into to a brickwall, meanwhile you have players and executives with foresight like, "Don't you see that brickwall ahead?", but he's steadily saying "full speed ahead", it can cause dysfunction. You remove that element and guys now start to feel hey, the reins are off...we may actually be able to look and function like a REAL NFL offense. That confidence breeds comrade, cohesion, and a sense of purpose. This team may not have the star power of previous teams under Harbaugh but it defintely has enough talent to surprise the naysayers and doomsayers.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by VAfy-ya View Post
          For me, I really believe Harbaugh and his stubbornness kind of undermined the talent. Now I'm not saying Harbaugh wasnt a vital part of our success but after the 2012 season, teams started to figure out the offense. And he refused to adjust or change. That can stiffle a team's momentum and growth. When your leader is headstrong and very gun-ho about runnning into to a brickwall, meanwhile you have players and executives with foresight like, "Don't you see that brickwall ahead?", but he's steadily saying "full speed ahead", it can cause dysfunction. You remove that element and guys now start to feel hey, the reins are off...we may actually be able to look and function like a REAL NFL offense. That confidence breeds comrade, cohesion, and a sense of purpose. This team may not have the star power of previous teams under Harbaugh but it defintely has enough talent to surprise the naysayers and doomsayers.
          Harbaugh deserved another year to get his **** together. That's my biggest issue. Replacing him with a defensive line coach with not even any coordinator experience is stupid. Jed and his family have ****** up before. And the 49ers were losers for nearly ten years afterward. Don't forget that.

          "Every light must fade, every heart return to darkness!"
          -San Francisco 49ers: Five Time Super Bowl Champions-
          Originally posted by Borat
          Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Ness View Post
            Harbaugh deserved another year to get his **** together. That's my biggest issue. Replacing him with a defensive line coach with not even any coordinator experience is stupid. Jed and his family have ****** up before. And the 49ers were losers for nearly ten years afterward. Don't forget that.
            Harbaugh refused to get his **** together....THAT was the major problem. If he doesn't believe there is a problem, then what do you fix? He refused to fire Roman, who I think wasn't really the problem. He refused to alter the way he gameplaned and the overall offensive structure(4 guys basically being the OC). Harbaugh's offense worked in the beginning with ALL the various shifts and the expansive run game UNTIL defenses figured out all you have to do is follow the FB. Once defenses caught on to what those shifts were meant to do.....cause confusion, they adjusted. We(Harbaugh) had no counter. The proof is in the film.

            There were a lot of aspects of Harbaugh's personality and personal beliefs that made him a great coach. But there were also aspects of him that made him a inferior coach and a guy I wasn't convinced could ever lead us to a SB win. His unwillingness to adapt and adjust to the ever changing landscape of the NFL. Teams make it there job to figure you out. Once they do, you have to be ready to counter that and Harbaugh always seemed to be a guy who firmly believed that he didn't need to alter his approach. He felt that the players just needed to execute his vision better. At some point, its not the message but more than likely the messenger when expectations aren't met and guys seem to not be "all in". You may believe he deserved one more year. I personally, saw enough regression in 2013 and 2014 to know that things were not improving, they were getting worst. Despite the success, you don't keep a coach if you're unsure of his ability to maximize the talent you give him. I rather they try and find the guy they feel has the tools to led their team to its ultimate goal. Not just stand pat to appease fans and settle for being a really good team who never plays up to their capabilities. Tomsula may be just "some D-Line coach" just like Harbaugh was just "some college coach" before he came here. You have to start somewhere. But all some guys need is a shot. Just like Harbaugh's brother was "some STs coach" for the Eagles before he led them to a Super Bowl victory.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by VAfy-ya View Post
              Harbaugh refused to get his **** together....THAT was the major problem. If he doesn't believe there is a problem, then what do you fix? He refused to fire Roman, who I think wasn't really the problem. He refused to alter the way he gameplaned and the overall offensive structure(4 guys basically being the OC). Harbaugh's offense worked in the beginning with ALL the various shifts and the expansive run game UNTIL defenses figured out all you have to do is follow the FB. Once defenses caught on to what those shifts were meant to do.....cause confusion, they adjusted. We(Harbaugh) had no counter. The proof is in the film.

              There were a lot of aspects of Harbaugh's personality and personal beliefs that made him a great coach. But there were also aspects of him that made him a inferior coach and a guy I wasn't convinced could ever lead us to a SB win. His unwillingness to adapt and adjust to the ever changing landscape of the NFL. Teams make it there job to figure you out. Once they do, you have to be ready to counter that and Harbaugh always seemed to be a guy who firmly believed that he didn't need to alter his approach. He felt that the players just needed to execute his vision better. At some point, its not the message but more than likely the messenger when expectations aren't met and guys seem to not be "all in". You may believe he deserved one more year. I personally, saw enough regression in 2013 and 2014 to know that things were not improving, they were getting worst. Despite the success, you don't keep a coach if you're unsure of his ability to maximize the talent you give him. I rather they try and find the guy they feel has the tools to led their team to its ultimate goal. Not just stand pat to appease fans and settle for being a really good team who never plays up to their capabilities. Tomsula may be just "some D-Line coach" just like Harbaugh was just "some college coach" before he came here. You have to start somewhere. But all some guys need is a shot. Just like Harbaugh's brother was "some STs coach" for the Eagles before he led them to a Super Bowl victory.
              Harbaugh deserved another year. I'll trade Harbaugh and Roman sorting out their issues and getting back on track in the offseason for the potential of having it blow up again for a second straight season. Because if you get rid of him at that point, you don't look like the moron like Jed is looking like right now. Like I said this isn't the first time the Yorks have screwed things up. And it won't be the last. Harbaugh was tough to deal with, but he got results. 13-3 season, 11-4-1 season, 12-4 season, and an 8-8 season. Two NFC Championship games and a Super Bowl appearance almost winning it. You don't get rid of a coach that brings a franchise back from being an perennial doormat to a title contender in a sort amount of time. Bill Belicheck and Bill Parcells aren't the easiest people to get along with either and have strong personalities. But they're great coaches. And if you are going to get rid of a guy, at least don't organize a smear campaign with "leaks" like you did with Mike Singletary. Harbaugh leaving just stinks of cowardice on the part of the front brass.

              As for Tomsula, history isn't on his side for starters. I'm almost certain there has never been a successful defensive line coach that made the jump to head coach ever before. And he'll be at the mercy of his coordinators on offense as well. As a fan I don't want to go back to the days of Alex Smith jumping coordinators every single year. Also, there have been so many departures along with a new coaching staff. The decked is stacked against Tomsula to say that least. Oh yeah and they play in the NFC West. To say it looks grim is an understatement.
              Last edited by Ness; 06-10-2015, 02:59 AM.

              "Every light must fade, every heart return to darkness!"
              -San Francisco 49ers: Five Time Super Bowl Champions-
              Originally posted by Borat
              Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Ness View Post
                Harbaugh deserved another year. I'll trade Harbaugh and Roman sorting out their issues and getting back on track in the offseason for the potential of having it blow up again for a second straight season. Because if you get rid of him at that point, you don't look like the moron like Jed is looking like right now. Like I said this isn't the first time the Yorks have screwed things up. And it won't be the last. Harbaugh was tough to deal with, but he got results. 13-3 season, 11-4-1 season, 12-4 season, and an 8-8 season. Two NFC Championship games and a Super Bowl appearance almost winning it. You don't get rid of a coach that brings a franchise back from being an perennial doormat to a title contender in a sort amount of time. Bill Belicheck and Bill Parcells aren't the easiest people to get along with either and have strong personalities. But they're great coaches. And if you are going to get rid of a guy, at least don't organize a smear campaign with "leaks" like you did with Mike Singletary. Harbaugh leaving just stinks of cowardice on the part of the front brass.

                As for Tomsula, history isn't on his side for starters. I'm almost certain there has never been a successful defensive line coach that made the jump to head coach ever before. And he'll be at the mercy of his coordinators on offense as well. As a fan I don't want to go back to the days of Alex Smith jumping coordinators every single year. Also, there have been so many departures along with a new coaching staff. The decked is stacked against Tomsula to say that least. Oh yeah and they play in the NFC West. To say it looks grim is an understatement.
                He deserved another year IF he was willing to make some concessions. Harbaugh never struck me as the type to make concessions. He's a "my way or no way" type of personality. I'm pretty sure Jed didn't wake up one morning and decide to fire his coach. It was a culmination of little things that added up and ultimately Harbaugh's stubborness that did him in. I'm almost certain that if Harbaugh was willing to change some things about his staff and his approach, mainly on offense, that he would still be the HC.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by VAfy-ya View Post
                  He deserved another year IF he was willing to make some concessions. Harbaugh never struck me as the type to make concessions. He's a "my way or no way" type of personality. I'm pretty sure Jed didn't wake up one morning and decide to fire his coach. It was a culmination of little things that added up and ultimately Harbaugh's stubborness that did him in. I'm almost certain that if Harbaugh was willing to change some things about his staff and his approach, mainly on offense, that he would still be the HC.
                  Why is Jed even getting involved though? That is what I don't understand. Jed has zero football background. He hired Harbaugh to do a job. Let the man do what he wants. Especially if you don't have someone better to replace him.

                  "Every light must fade, every heart return to darkness!"
                  -San Francisco 49ers: Five Time Super Bowl Champions-
                  Originally posted by Borat
                  Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Ness View Post
                    Why is Jed even getting involved though? That is what I don't understand. Jed has zero football background. He hired Harbaugh to do a job. Let the man do what he wants. Especially if you don't have someone better to replace him.
                    Its his team(well, his dad's team) so if he feels he needs a change, that's his prerogative. I'm sure Baalke had a lot to do with it as well. But I don't think he made the decision without any input from the football minds around him like Baalke, Marthe, etc.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Ness View Post
                      Why is Jed even getting involved though? That is what I don't understand. Jed has zero football background. He hired Harbaugh to do a job. Let the man do what he wants. Especially if you don't have someone better to replace him.
                      So if someone is successful they should lose all accountability to authority?

                      Regardless of York's "football background"... even though he has been in the 49ers' facility his entire life... he is the "boss" and in the real world if you fail to follow the boss' orders or defy his wishes you'll get fired.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by phlysac View Post
                        So if someone is successful they should lose all accountability to authority?

                        Regardless of York's "football background"... even though he has been in the 49ers' facility his entire life... he is the "boss" and in the real world if you fail to follow the boss' orders or defy his wishes you'll get fired.
                        So if someone slips up they should get the boot immediately? This is the difference between a family like the Yorks and a family like the Rooneys. It would be like firing Cower after his third season. And being around the facility since you were a kid doesn't mean you have a football background. I can be around a physicist all my life, but that doesn't mean I'll be an expert in physics.

                        "Every light must fade, every heart return to darkness!"
                        -San Francisco 49ers: Five Time Super Bowl Champions-
                        Originally posted by Borat
                        Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Ness View Post
                          So if someone slips up they should get the boot immediately? This is the difference between a family like the Yorks and a family like the Rooneys. It would be like firing Cower after his third season. And being around the facility since you were a kid doesn't mean you have a football background. I can be around a physicist all my life, but that doesn't mean I'll be an expert in physics.
                          Noones first child should ever be disciplined because the parent has no experience being a parent? The boss is the boss.

                          And youre making the assumption that Harbaugh wasnt given a million opportunities to make the changes he was asked to make. Noone has made the assertion that Harbaugh was fired due to an inability to win football games. Theres more to being a good employee than surface results.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by phlysac View Post
                            Noones first child should ever be disciplined because the parent has no experience being a parent? The boss is the boss.

                            And youre making the assumption that Harbaugh wasnt given a million opportunities to make the changes he was asked to make. Noone has made the assertion that Harbaugh was fired due to an inability to win football games. Theres more to being a good employee than surface results.
                            Someone's child should be immediately disciplined the first time he slips up big? And a boss and parent aren't exactly one in the same. Harbaugh worked for Jed, but wasn't dependent on him. He was brought in to do a job, not to be shown the way how to do something.

                            This is kind of like when movie studios try to F with the director they hired and make consistent changes to the end product, which ends up becoming a mess. That's what happens when you get in the way of creative people trying to do accomplish a task the way they know how. If Jed wasn't liking what Jim was doing, then fire him. Just don't try to change the man's nature or how he does his job. You don't bring someone aboard that you hired to do a specific task the way they know how to do it, and then start messing with their methods. It just reeks of micromanaging a la Bud Adams, Jerry Jones, or Daniel Synder.

                            In the NFL winning football games is all that matters. Results matter and everything else is secondary. If you could only choose one of the two who would you rather have:

                            Coach A: Hard to deal with, but gets results and produces winning season essentially every year

                            Coach B: A nice guy, always says what one wants to hear, but results are lackluster.
                            Last edited by Ness; 06-11-2015, 01:15 AM.

                            "Every light must fade, every heart return to darkness!"
                            -San Francisco 49ers: Five Time Super Bowl Champions-
                            Originally posted by Borat
                            Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by VAfy-ya View Post
                              Its his team(well, his dad's team) so if he feels he needs a change, that's his prerogative. I'm sure Baalke had a lot to do with it as well. But I don't think he made the decision without any input from the football minds around him like Baalke, Marthe, etc.
                              Apparantely Harbaugh and Baalke got along great. Baalke was essentially the last friend Harbaugh had in the building according to Tim Kawakami I believe. And what football background does Marthe have? Is he not just a glorified accountant that Jed put in a position of power?

                              "Every light must fade, every heart return to darkness!"
                              -San Francisco 49ers: Five Time Super Bowl Champions-
                              Originally posted by Borat
                              Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Ness View Post
                                Apparantely Harbaugh and Baalke got along great. Baalke was essentially the last friend Harbaugh had in the building according to Tim Kawakami I believe. And what football background does Marthe have? Is he not just a glorified accountant that Jed put in a position of power?
                                Friend or not, I'm sure Baalke saw the writing on the wall in regards to Harbaugh. Baalke hired the man. If he was so much of a friend and so adamant about him staying, he would still be the coach. Jed defers EVERYTHING to Baalke so to assert that Harbaugh is no longer the coach soley because Jed wanted him gone is very illogical and naive IMO. I have a few friends who I consider good ppl outside of the work environment. But having worked with a some of them, I understand that some don't work well with others. Doesn't make them a crappy friend, just a crappy co-worker.

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