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POLL: Alex Smith or Mike Singletary

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  • #16
    Originally posted by dan77733 View Post
    People I work with get under my skin. Someone who I dont know and have never met and never will could never get under my skin. While you blamed Singletary earlier in the season, you havent lately, just Alex which is the real reason why I made this poll. I wanted to see who everyone would keep if they had to pick one or the other. But hey, if you want to think that I posted this poll as some sort of revenge or whatever, go ahead as you're free to think that but just because you think it doesnt make it true.

    You blamed Sing earlier in the season but why not lately? He's still to blame just as much as anyone else this season but like you said, you blamed him earlier this season. Why is that? If you're going to blame Alex, you should have Sing's name right next to his.

    You seem to ignore responding as to why you think Troy is better than Alex. Still havent posted why you think Troy is better. Troy not being at TC or pre-season has nothing to do with him or Alex. He was a Raven. How could he possibly be here for TC and PS? And if that's such a disadvantage like you claim it to be, shouldnt a head coach like Sing know that and take that under consideration before signing him to replace Davis? And how has Alex not been at a disadvantage here in SF? Since he was drafted, he's been at a disadvantage. Nolan, Singletary and whoever else instilled in him to be cautious when playing which is why he makes mistakes he probably wouldnt if he didnt have that drilled into his mindset for the last seven years. He's had a different OC in every season including this year. He's had Nolan screw him over. He's had Sing screw him over. Even when Alex is starting, he gets screwed time and time again because of Sing's crappy mentality that running the ball 40 times a game is going to produce wins even though it obviously hasnt worked that way but yet, Sing still does the same thing. You cant blame Alex or crap like that when his damn head coach is basically telling him and the OC what plays to run and then he (Sing) bitches about it when they dont work. While you may have bashed Sing for signing Troy in favor of Davis, you sure as hell dont sound like it right now and considering the fact that Troy has done less and worse than Alex, I dont see how anyone could have liked or now like that signing. And considering the fact that Sing decided to sign Troy and demote Davis despite the fact that Troy was at the Ravens TC and PS, Sing still signed him which should tell everyone that he sucks as a head coach and obviously doesnt have a clue which in-turn will only hurt Alex, Troy or whoever the damn QB happens to be.

    I just dont understand why you've focused on Alex when it comes to bashing players. He cant control what the other 52 players do or dont do. If a WR doesnt run their correct route, how can that be on Alex? I personally blame Alex 50% with the other 50% on Sing. The only difference is that if Alex actually had good stable coaching around him, you could actually be good. Sing could have a Pro Bowl squad and he would still find a way to screw it up.

    Alex and Troy being here in 2011 is 50/50 for each but I think if there's a new head coach, that head coach will lean towards Alex especially if its a veteran head coach who's offensive minded and knows what he's doing. I personally would keep Alex over Troy and Carr but Davis over all three if it came down to that. I dont see how keeping Alex in 2011 hurts the franchise or the team or the players because as you've seen this season and in the past when Alex wasnt even playing (J.T. O'Sullivan ring a bell?), he's far from being our biggest negative or problem. That would go to ownership followed by management followed by the coaching staff. But whatever, we'll just have to wait and see what happens. As long as Sing is gone and we get Gruden, I'll be a happy camper.

    And yeah, crystal clear.
    And just because you deny it doesn't make it true either. The fact that this poll exists because of a discussion we had involving me and you just makes it seem you're trying to push your point further because I didn't agree with it and/or didn't say what you wanted to hear.

    Actually I have posted why I believe Troy is better, even though it seems obvious. The winning record for one. He's passed the ball just as effectively without turning it over as much (his interception percentage is a lot lower). Balls don't bounce off the hands of receivers magically into the hands of the defender, something that was a trademark of Alex. Troy gets sacked a bit more, I'll give you that. This guy has accomplished these feats without even being here in the summer for preseason and training camp. Within his first few starts he passed for over 300 yards, something that took how many seasons to do? All in all it doesn't matter because I believe you'll refute this evidence anyways and/or just plain ignore it. Seems like your mind is already made up. Whether you like it or not, not being here to learn the system and have chemistry with the players matters. It's a reality. This isn't Madden where you can just plug in whoever you please.

    I don't know why Singletary cut Davis in the first place and signed Smith. Regardless, that's irrelevant to him being at a disadvantage when coming here compared to Smith who was here all summer. I never said Alex wasn't at a disadvantage with the coaching. But as far as being here and knowing the system and having a lot more reps with the players, that is an advantage. How in the world would it not be? And you babble all you want about the fragile psyche of Alex Smith as if this can be evidence you can actually present in a court, but at the end of the day it's just one of the many pathetic excuses used for the last six seasons. The playcalling however flawed it may be doesn't excuse Alex for not being able to throw the ball effectively...as in never pump faking, throwing the ball late resulting in defenders to get a jump on it, being inaccurate resulting in receivers having balls tipped, etc.

    I already told you I don't like Singletary as the head coach and that I believe his decisions have been terrible. Just because I haven't said anything recently doesn't mean I've changed my tune. Stop making assumptions without a basis for a conclusion. Both Smith and Singletary are terrible at what they do in their own regard and need to be axed from the team for various reasons...most of which would be serious baggage that screws the reputation of the organization.

    As for Alex being able to be a Pro Bowl quarterback if he had a Pro Bowl squad, that is only speculative and not factual. You could say that about a lot of quarterbacks that busted in the NFL. Other quarterbacks have come in with inadequate coaching, a bad cast, and just an overall bad team, but still made it work. They didn't need excuses. Me talking about how terrible the other members of the team are isn't going to change my stance on Alex at all. I could do it if it'll make you feel better?

    Keeping Alex would be awful for the franchise and humiliating. That would be like the Chargers keeping Ryan Leaf until 2004...even as just a backup. It's embarrassing. It's basically sending a message everyone out there that the franchise still has confidence in it's busted quarterback...instead of doing the logical thing and admitting a mistake was made and move forward.

    "Every light must fade, every heart return to darkness!"
    -San Francisco 49ers: Five Time Super Bowl Champions-
    Originally posted by Borat
    Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.

    Comment


    • #17
      Keeping Alex would be awful for the franchise and humiliating. That would be like the Chargers keeping Ryan Leaf until 2004...even as just a backup. It's embarrassing. It's basically sending a message everyone out there that the franchise still has confidence in it's busted quarterback...instead of doing the logical thing and admitting a mistake was made and move forward.
      It would be nothing like that. Leaf was a bottom 3 QB in addition to being, by all accounts, an a-hole and a locker room cancer. Alex is an average QB who is a hard worker and who no one in the locker room has ever had any type of problems with. If the new coach makes it clear that Alex is going to be the backup and there will be no competition or that the guy he drafts is eventually going to take over then there won't be a problem. Alex could even perform well waiting for the new guy to take over and we could have a Drew Brees/Philip Rivers scenario.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Borat View Post
        So basically this is like choosing between having cancer or AIDS.
        That's testicular cancer by the way.




        2 C 5:6-8 Jakob Murphy aka themaninblack

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by abaddon41_80 View Post
          It would be nothing like that. Leaf was a bottom 3 QB in addition to being, by all accounts, an a-hole and a locker room cancer. Alex is an average QB who is a hard worker and who no one in the locker room has ever had any type of problems with. If the new coach makes it clear that Alex is going to be the backup and there will be no competition or that the guy he drafts is eventually going to take over then there won't be a problem. Alex could even perform well waiting for the new guy to take over and we could have a Drew Brees/Philip Rivers scenario.
          The fact that you're still dreaming that Alex could be good and your mind won't be changed is sad and makes this discussion pointless. When Alex starts performing like Brees or Rivers let me know. Alex will never be a good quarterback. I'm willing to bet you 100 dollars that within the next five years he won't do anything significant anywhere.

          "Every light must fade, every heart return to darkness!"
          -San Francisco 49ers: Five Time Super Bowl Champions-
          Originally posted by Borat
          Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Ness View Post
            The fact that you're still dreaming that Alex could be good and your mind won't be changed is sad and makes this discussion pointless. When Alex starts performing like Brees or Rivers let me know.
            I don't think he will start performing like Brees or Rivers, I never said I did. To act like it is impossible is stupid, though, because he has performed well in short bursts before. If a good coach can just find some way to harness it you never know...

            It is irrelevant whether he can be good or not, though, because he is already average while Troy sucks. A new coach would rather have an average QB than a crappy one. Alex's past will have no effect on whether or not he stays

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by abaddon41_80 View Post
              I don't think he will start performing like Brees or Rivers, I never said I did. To act like it is impossible is stupid, though, because he has performed well in short bursts before. If a good coach can just find some way to harness it you never know...

              It is irrelevant whether he can be good or not, though, because he is already average while Troy sucks. A new coach would rather have an average QB than a crappy one. Alex's past will have no effect on whether or not he stays
              Then why even bring up that scenario in the discussion? It's pointless. Why would acting like it's impossible for Alex to perform like Brees or Rivers stupid? Just because you don't want to believe it?

              Both Troy and Alex suck. Let's get that straight. Alex is not average. But having this discussion is pointless like I said because you still believe Alex will be good. His past will have an effect on whether he stays or not. My $100 offer still stands.

              "Every light must fade, every heart return to darkness!"
              -San Francisco 49ers: Five Time Super Bowl Champions-
              Originally posted by Borat
              Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.

              Comment


              • #22
                I don't still believe Alex can be good consistently but I believe he can be average with times when he plays great. He has proven that. And he is average.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Ness View Post
                  And just because you deny it doesn't make it true either. The fact that this poll exists because of a discussion we had involving me and you just makes it seem you're trying to push your point further because I didn't agree with it and/or didn't say what you wanted to hear.

                  Actually I have posted why I believe Troy is better, even though it seems obvious. The winning record for one. He's passed the ball just as effectively without turning it over as much (his interception percentage is a lot lower). Balls don't bounce off the hands of receivers magically into the hands of the defender, something that was a trademark of Alex. Troy gets sacked a bit more, I'll give you that. This guy has accomplished these feats without even being here in the summer for preseason and training camp. Within his first few starts he passed for over 300 yards, something that took how many seasons to do? All in all it doesn't matter because I believe you'll refute this evidence anyways and/or just plain ignore it. Seems like your mind is already made up. Whether you like it or not, not being here to learn the system and have chemistry with the players matters. It's a reality. This isn't Madden where you can just plug in whoever you please.

                  I don't know why Singletary cut Davis in the first place and signed Smith. Regardless, that's irrelevant to him being at a disadvantage when coming here compared to Smith who was here all summer. I never said Alex wasn't at a disadvantage with the coaching. But as far as being here and knowing the system and having a lot more reps with the players, that is an advantage. How in the world would it not be? And you babble all you want about the fragile psyche of Alex Smith as if this can be evidence you can actually present in a court, but at the end of the day it's just one of the many pathetic excuses used for the last six seasons. The playcalling however flawed it may be doesn't excuse Alex for not being able to throw the ball effectively...as in never pump faking, throwing the ball late resulting in defenders to get a jump on it, being inaccurate resulting in receivers having balls tipped, etc.

                  I already told you I don't like Singletary as the head coach and that I believe his decisions have been terrible. Just because I haven't said anything recently doesn't mean I've changed my tune. Stop making assumptions without a basis for a conclusion. Both Smith and Singletary are terrible at what they do in their own regard and need to be axed from the team for various reasons...most of which would be serious baggage that screws the reputation of the organization.

                  As for Alex being able to be a Pro Bowl quarterback if he had a Pro Bowl squad, that is only speculative and not factual. You could say that about a lot of quarterbacks that busted in the NFL. Other quarterbacks have come in with inadequate coaching, a bad cast, and just an overall bad team, but still made it work. They didn't need excuses. Me talking about how terrible the other members of the team are isn't going to change my stance on Alex at all. I could do it if it'll make you feel better?

                  Keeping Alex would be awful for the franchise and humiliating. That would be like the Chargers keeping Ryan Leaf until 2004...even as just a backup. It's embarrassing. It's basically sending a message everyone out there that the franchise still has confidence in it's busted quarterback...instead of doing the logical thing and admitting a mistake was made and move forward.
                  If that was the case, this poll would have been Alex or Troy. Our debate/argument gave me the idea for the poll to see who fans would pick if they HAD to keep one or the other.

                  Winning record??? WTF??? He's 3-2. Big deal. His record as a starter career wise is 4-3. You're actually using a one game lead (so to speak) as a reason why you prefer him is just insane. Alex's TD percentage is 4% while his INT percentage is at 3.4%. Troy is at 3.2% to 2.4%. Of course, if you add the .8% that Alex is ahead in TD percentage, the difference becomes only .2%. Big deal. You also fail to realize that Troy has only started in 5 games and has 126 attempts compared to Alex who has started 9 games and has 298 attempts. Obviously, if the starts and attempts were the opposite, we would be having the same conversation but in the opposite direction. I'll give Troy credit and props for the 356 yard game. As for the ball bouncing off the hands of WR's and becoming INT's isnt always on the QB. Yeah, he'll get the blame but its not always on the QB. I seriously doubt all 10 INT's are on Alex. My mind is already set just like yours is so it evens out in the end. And stop saying Madden, I dont play that piece of crap of a game.

                  At least we argree in regards to Singletary.

                  The Pro Bowl squad comment I made was in regards to Sing. Sing could have a Pro Bowl team and still find a way to screw it up. I never said anything about Alex being a Pro Bowler if he had a Pro Bowl squad. I do think that Alex would be better if he had better coaching though.

                  Considering the mistakes that this franchise has made since 2002, I seriously doubt that keeping Alex in 2011 would be horrible and humiliating compared to the past. But whatever, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Ness
                    I'm willing to bet you 100 dollars that within the next five years he won't do anything significant anywhere.
                    Just want to clarify - what exactly do you see as significant in regards to Alex?

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by abaddon41_80 View Post
                      I don't still believe Alex can be good consistently but I believe he can be average with times when he plays great. He has proven that. And he is average.
                      Well him not being good is the important part. And if he's not good consistently, then he's not good at all. If you want to believe he's "average", that's fine. I just think he's downright terrible.

                      "Every light must fade, every heart return to darkness!"
                      -San Francisco 49ers: Five Time Super Bowl Champions-
                      Originally posted by Borat
                      Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Ness View Post
                        Well him not being good is the important part. And if he's not good consistently, then he's not good at all. If you want to believe he's "average", that's fine. I just think he's downright terrible.
                        He isn't. Look at what he has done the past two years

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by dan77733 View Post
                          If that was the case, this poll would have been Alex or Troy. Our debate/argument gave me the idea for the poll to see who fans would pick if they HAD to keep one or the other.

                          Winning record??? WTF??? He's 3-2. Big deal. His record as a starter career wise is 4-3. You're actually using a one game lead (so to speak) as a reason why you prefer him is just insane. Alex's TD percentage is 4% while his INT percentage is at 3.4%. Troy is at 3.2% to 2.4%. Of course, if you add the .8% that Alex is ahead in TD percentage, the difference becomes only .2%. Big deal. You also fail to realize that Troy has only started in 5 games and has 126 attempts compared to Alex who has started 9 games and has 298 attempts. Obviously, if the starts and attempts were the opposite, we would be having the same conversation but in the opposite direction. I'll give Troy credit and props for the 356 yard game. As for the ball bouncing off the hands of WR's and becoming INT's isnt always on the QB. Yeah, he'll get the blame but its not always on the QB. I seriously doubt all 10 INT's are on Alex. My mind is already set just like yours is so it evens out in the end. And stop saying Madden, I dont play that piece of crap of a game.


                          At least we argree in regards to Singletary.

                          The Pro Bowl squad comment I made was in regards to Sing. Sing could have a Pro Bowl team and still find a way to screw it up. I never said anything about Alex being a Pro Bowler if he had a Pro Bowl squad. I do think that Alex would be better if he had better coaching though.

                          Considering the mistakes that this franchise has made since 2002, I seriously doubt that keeping Alex in 2011 would be horrible and humiliating compared to the past. But whatever, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.
                          Well we were talking about Alex, which you believe I blamed everything on...which sparked the creation for this thread.

                          Having a winning record is a big deal. If Alex Smith had a winning record you'd be all over it this season, so spare me. Alex has had more opportunities to win games this season with the same coaches, same teammates and with more experience under his belt and and his consistently failed to come through. Alex is responsible for the majority of his interceptions.

                          Anyone would be better with better coaching. But Alex being better, doesn't mean he'll throw the football differently and be more accurate magically. He might have a better understanding, but his intuition may not change. And that is what matters. Like Steve Young said about accuracy, you either have it or you don't. And Alex doesn't.

                          "Every light must fade, every heart return to darkness!"
                          -San Francisco 49ers: Five Time Super Bowl Champions-
                          Originally posted by Borat
                          Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by abaddon41_80 View Post
                            He isn't. Look at what he has done the past two years
                            You're right, he hasn't done anything.

                            "Every light must fade, every heart return to darkness!"
                            -San Francisco 49ers: Five Time Super Bowl Champions-
                            Originally posted by Borat
                            Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Ness View Post
                              You're right, he hasn't done anything.
                              ~225 yards per game, 30 touchdowns, 22 interceptions, 60% completion, and a 80 QB rating is pretty average

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by abaddon41_80 View Post
                                ~225 yards per game, 30 touchdowns, 22 interceptions, 60% completion, and a 80 QB rating is pretty average
                                Sure if this was 1985. A quarterback that flirts around 80 in terms of rating isn't going to get it done for you consistently these days. You need to be pushing 90. To be good at least. If you're talking average, then sure if you want to state that, I could accept it. In any case, stats don't tell the entire story. Smith has played worse than his rating has indicated. Especially when a lot of his yards and touchdowns have come in garbage time.

                                "Every light must fade, every heart return to darkness!"
                                -San Francisco 49ers: Five Time Super Bowl Champions-
                                Originally posted by Borat
                                Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.

                                Comment

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