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  • #16
    Originally posted by Milk Man View Post
    Carson Palmer for a 4th? Explain how this improves the Bengals. Mike Brown isn't gonna trade him cuz he's a distraction. He could give a rats ass about chemistry.
    Palmer is not going to fetch anything more than a 4th. While the Bengals have the leverage, usually these unhappy player cases end in a trade. He doesn't want to be there.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by PatrickWillis
      Palmer is not going to fetch anything more than a 4th. While the Bengals have the leverage, usually these unhappy player cases end in a trade. He doesn't want to be there.
      I wouldnt trade for Palmer. According to rotoworld.com, Palmer is scheduled to make $11.5m for 2011 and 2012. $13m in 2013 and $14m in 2014. Hell no. Thats worse than McNabb.

      I know everyone thinks that we have no shot in being in position to draft Luck next year which is why I would give up an entire draft for him which is why I would focus on other positions this off-season and just go all-out for Luck next year since QB would be the only main position that we would need a franchise player at.

      I think it all depends on who's number one. If it's a team that already has a franchise QB or one that drafts one this year in the first round, I think the ability to trade an entire draft for him would be possible.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Kaybra View Post
        I think it would be a lofty expectation to think Lamar Woodley would leave the Steelers to come here.I think Tamba Hali is a much more realistic target.
        Didnt even think of Hali and wouldnt mind him at all. Would easily be an upgrade over Haralson/Brooks and be a good combo opposite Lawson who we should definitely re-sign.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by dan77733 View Post
          Didnt even think of Hali and wouldnt mind him at all. Would easily be an upgrade over Haralson/Brooks and be a good combo opposite Lawson who we should definitely re-sign.
          We need to re-sign Manny Lawson? I was under the impression that in a 3-4 you need rushers to be successful. Manusky is gone and so is his pussyball way of running a defense. Fangio is going to want pass rush ability, not cover ability. Let Manny sign with a 4-3 team where he is much more of a fit with his coverage skills.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by PatrickWillis View Post
            We need to re-sign Manny Lawson? I was under the impression that in a 3-4 you need rushers to be successful. Manusky is gone and so is his pussyball way of running a defense. Fangio is going to want pass rush ability, not cover ability. Let Manny sign with a 4-3 team where he is much more of a fit with his coverage skills.
            Rushers are needed to be successful in a 3-4, especially due to the stress put on the secondary, but both OLBs do not rush on the majority of downs. Doing so would make it a 5-2, not a 3-4.

            With the rule changes favoring a passing offense, having an extra body who isn't a liability in coverage is useful (hence the 5-2 being regarded as the older version of the 3-4).

            If you read the media, you see coaches constantly talking about mismatches. One of them would be forcing a pass rushing OLB to drop into coverage, especially if the OLB doesn't have any skills in that area.

            Manny Lawson can contribute a little to the pass rush and is good in coverage, which doesn't make him completely useless for a 3-4 scheme.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Verloren View Post
              Rushers are needed to be successful in a 3-4, especially due to the stress put on the secondary, but both OLBs do not rush on the majority of downs. Doing so would make it a 5-2, not a 3-4.

              With the rule changes favoring a passing offense, having an extra body who isn't a liability in coverage is useful (hence the 5-2 being regarded as the older version of the 3-4).

              If you read the media, you see coaches constantly talking about mismatches. One of them would be forcing a pass rushing OLB to drop into coverage, especially if the OLB doesn't have any skills in that area.

              Manny Lawson can contribute a little to the pass rush and is good in coverage, which doesn't make him completely useless for a 3-4 scheme.
              Lawson was never asked to be the edge rusher in Munusky's defense.Thats not really his fault.Given an oppertunity he may be better than we as fans have given him credit for being.Also Lawson is one of the best in the league at setting the edge in the running game.Which is a major asset for a 3-4 OLB.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Kaybra View Post
                Lawson was never asked to be the edge rusher in Munusky's defense.Thats not really his fault.Given an oppertunity he may be better than we as fans have given him credit for being.Also Lawson is one of the best in the league at setting the edge in the running game.Which is a major asset for a 3-4 OLB.
                Lawson is great at everything EXCEPT rushing the passer. There was a reason why he wasn't asked to passrush often, go look at the times he DID rush the passer. He easily gets stonewalled, he's a long-strider, and has no moves whatsoever.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by binary View Post
                  Lawson is great at everything EXCEPT rushing the passer. There was a reason why he wasn't asked to passrush often, go look at the times he DID rush the passer. He easily gets stonewalled, he's a long-strider, and has no moves whatsoever.
                  I agree with this. Manny is a good player, but the 3-4 is just not for him. I have a feeling he would dominate in a 4-3, and be a Lance Briggs type force for a tampa 2 scheme. Problem is, in the 3-4 priority Number 1 from your backers' is to get to the quarterback and Lawson can't do it. Thankfully Baalke understands this, as does Fangio I'm hoping, unlike Pussyball Manusky and realizes that a premier pass rusher is a huge need for us.

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                  • #24
                    Some quotes from Fangio when he first joined Stanford.

                    Regarding the 3-4
                    "It has been a pressure oriented defense in the past. It will have to be tailored to the players we have here. We are not going to cram a system down on players that maybe they are not capable of doing. So it will be a 3-4 base, but it will be a hybrid 3-4 where we are able to do a lot of 4-3 stuff within the 3-4 personnel. We will take the package where the players lead us. But in the past, if ever I have had the conflict, I would pressure more than not. We would like to be an attacking defense and pressure more but we are not going to pressure just for the sake of doing it. We are going to try and do it intelligently and adjust the system to what we have."
                    3-4 OLBs
                    But a 3-4 outside linebacker is 50% like a defensive end and 50% like an outside linebacker. He is still going to be doing the same things he has done in the past as a defensive end except there will be some dropping (into pass coverage) involved.
                    From the Examiner

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                    • #25
                      ^^^^^

                      After reading that, im staring to like Fangio because he seems to do what I would do which is use the talent and players you have to their strengths instead of forcing your defense on players that dont fit the system (coughShanahancough).

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                      • #26
                        Baalke on the priorities of a 3-4 OLB.

                        But Reed also has flashed good pass-rush ability at the Senior Bowl, and a number of teams are looking at him as a 3-4 outside linebacker. Reed and several other college defensive ends like Texas' Sam Acho and Purdue's Ryan Kerrigan said they've been trying to improve their draft value by practicing how to drop back in coverage and play pass defense.

                        That's fine, said Baalke, but the No. 1 criterion at the position is the ability to find the opposing quarterback.

                        "The thing you have to remember is that probably the third or the fourth thing they're going to ask those guys to do is drop (in coverage)," he said. "It's a lot more important for them to be able to rush the passer, set the edges on the run game, and then you worry about what they can do in the drops."

                        So while yes, coverage is important, pass rush ability is the MOST important.

                        Steelers: 2 premier rushers in Harrison and Woodley
                        Packers: Premiere rusher in Matthews
                        Ravens: premiere rusher in Suggs

                        Funny how all the dominant 3-4's have a bonafide sack artist.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by PatrickWillis View Post
                          Palmer is not going to fetch anything more than a 4th. While the Bengals have the leverage, usually these unhappy player cases end in a trade. He doesn't want to be there.
                          Except in Cincy.

                          Corey Dillon was never happy it seemed.

                          Chad Johnson - didn't he demand a trade? Not sure.

                          Either way, unhappy campers have been in Cincy before, and have stayed until they had the control to change it.
                          Originally posted by Babylon
                          It's called Karma for all the years with Montana and Young.

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                          • #28
                            Sign: Asomugha
                            Marcus Spears

                            Re-Sign: Alex Smith
                            Dashon Goldson
                            Aubrayo Franklin
                            Barry Sims
                            Tony Wragge
                            Takeo Spikes (one more year)

                            Release: Manny Lawson
                            Ray Mcdonald
                            Brian Westbrook
                            David Baas
                            Nate Clements
                            Moran Norris

                            Resign everyone who wasnt listed to be released as backups or PS.

                            -----------------------
                            Trade Down and pick up a fourth round pick

                            1. Ryan Kerrigan/OLB - Purdue
                            2. Ryan Mallett/QB - Arkansas
                            3. Demarco Murray/HB - Oklahoma
                            4. Owen Marecic/FB - Stanford
                            4. Vincent Brown/WR - San Diego State
                            4. (Best Guard Available) Andrew Jackson/OG - Fresno State
                            5. Kenrick Ellis/NT - Hampton
                            5. Tejay Johnson/S - TCU
                            6. Ryan Winterswyk/DE - Boise State
                            7. (Development QB) Tyrod Taylor/QB - Virginia Tech
                            7. (Best Corner Available) Devon Torrence/DB - Ohio State
                            San Francisco 49ers: 5 Super Bowls
                            Auburn Tigers: 2 National Championships

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