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  • Josh Wilson actually not that bad

    http://www.fieldgulls.com/2008/11/20...s-annotated-hi

  • #2
    I don't really understand this post...

    I went, read the article, read the comments. I also remember watching that game (The one in November against the Cardinals). Wilson got manhandled by Fitzgerald and Boldin. It's not really a question of his coverage ability, it's a question of his physical ability.

    Wilson just doesn't have the body to be able to shut-down physical receivers. Granted, he isn't asked to a lot, but having another guy capable of shutting down WR's other than Trufant would be nice. Wilson is going to get pushed around a lot because of his size. He is probably best suited for being the nickelback.

    Another thing, if Wilson is the answer at CB, then why would he be returning kicks? You generally don't risk your starters returning kicks unless your not that afraid of getting them hurt. Burleson returned kicks because that was about the only area that he contributed regularly or significantly in. Wilson has a knack for returning kicks, but if he going to be a full-time starter, he won't be back there much longer.

    I think pretty much everybody agrees that Jennings is turning out to be a major disappointment, in fact, that could almost be an understatement since he lost his starting spot. How long before we call him a bust?
    Video games keep me sane

    University of Washington Huskies: 7-6

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    • #3
      Originally posted by summond822 View Post
      I don't really understand this post...

      I went, read the article, read the comments. I also remember watching that game (The one in November against the Cardinals). Wilson got manhandled by Fitzgerald and Boldin. It's not really a question of his coverage ability, it's a question of his physical ability.

      Wilson just doesn't have the body to be able to shut-down physical receivers. Granted, he isn't asked to a lot, but having another guy capable of shutting down WR's other than Trufant would be nice. Wilson is going to get pushed around a lot because of his size. He is probably best suited for being the nickelback.

      Another thing, if Wilson is the answer at CB, then why would he be returning kicks? You generally don't risk your starters returning kicks unless your not that afraid of getting them hurt. Burleson returned kicks because that was about the only area that he contributed regularly or significantly in. Wilson has a knack for returning kicks, but if he going to be a full-time starter, he won't be back there much longer.

      I think pretty much everybody agrees that Jennings is turning out to be a major disappointment, in fact, that could almost be an understatement since he lost his starting spot. How long before we call him a bust?
      Like Ive already stated, Jennings is having the same problem Trufant did in the early parts of his career. How soon people forget about the troubles Tru had early on. Jennings is always in great position, but has trouble making plays on the ball. Once he gets more experience and learns to play the ball better, he will be a very good corner in the league.

      And Wilson is back there returning kicks because he is one of the better kick returners in the league and was only a nickel back. Obviously he is going to be back there. If he turns out to be a full time starter, playing at a high level then he will most likely have to give that up.

      Bottom line, we have young, talented corners on this team already. We have much bigger needs that cornerback at this time, S, WR, OG, DT just to name a few. We will not draft Malcom Jenkins, or any CB in the first 3 rounds unless it is an obvious BPA situation.
      summond822- Seattle will not draft a WR in the first 3 rounds.

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      • #4
        I honestly don't agree with you about having "talented" corners, and if we fail to address that position in the offseason we are going to get torched through the air again all season long. I'm not going to hope one of those two turns out to be a decent CB. I really hope that we can address CB in free agency so we don't have to worry about that position on draft day.

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        • #5
          Read the Facts

          I dont understand why all seahawk fans have gottenon this bandwagon to say Josh Wilson cant get it done. He was one of our lone bright spot through out the year. Yea he had his missteps here and there but so did Trufant. I just think we need to look at the facts and stop just sayin things that have no basis.

          "I went, read the article, read the comments. I also remember watching that game (The one in November against the Cardinals). Wilson got manhandled by Fitzgerald and Boldin. It's not really a question of his coverage ability, it's a question of his physical ability.

          Wilson just doesn't have the body to be able to shut-down physical receivers. Granted, he isn't asked to a lot, but having another guy capable of shutting down WR's other than Trufant would be nice. Wilson is going to get pushed around a lot because of his size. He is probably best suited for being the nickelback."

          When was he man handled...when he went for the pick on Boldin and just dropped it and Boldin caught it or when fitz and him had a jump ball and fitz caught it. So what I guess Wilson is the reason both of them were in the Pro Bowl and killin everyone in the playoffs too. Oh yea and Trufant did an excellent job shutting down fitz right I get it.

          He doesnt have the body???? Yea how is that he has the same body type as Darnell Green and the Pro bowler Winfield from the Vikings not to say he is them but there are many players his size that have been shut down corners. Its amazing how we were ready to hand the keys to Jennings last year and Wilson comes and plays ten times better and we are ready to not give him a chance.

          P.S. Why is he on kickoffs??? Have you seen him return??? How can you take him off without a capable replacement. He sparked a lot of offense for us. Without I dont know where we would have been,

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Cicero View Post
            I honestly don't agree with you about having "talented" corners, and if we fail to address that position in the offseason we are going to get torched through the air again all season long. I'm not going to hope one of those two turns out to be a decent CB. I really hope that we can address CB in free agency so we don't have to worry about that position on draft day.
            Like we did 2 seasons ago? Last year was different because of distractions and injuries. Like I said once Jennings gets more experience and learns to play the ball better (Like Trufant did), he will be a very good corner. Wilson is a very good playmaker at nickel back. We have MUCH bigger needs at this time than CB.
            summond822- Seattle will not draft a WR in the first 3 rounds.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by cacksman View Post
              Like we did 2 seasons ago? Last year was different because of distractions and injuries. Like I said once Jennings gets more experience and learns to play the ball better (Like Trufant did), he will be a very good corner. Wilson is a very good playmaker at nickel back. We have MUCH bigger needs at this time than CB.
              Distractions? That's a cop out. Our pass defense wasn't that amazing two years ago either, we were right in the middle of the pack. We were also 6th in sacks that year and got a ton of pressure on opposing QBs. Our pass rush hid our secondary.

              Some Hawks fans seem to really believe that either Jennings or Wilson will develop into decent corners, and I'm just not buying it. Ya, Wilson can play nickle back but that's it and we still need a CB2. Jennings has had had two years in the NFL to figure things out, what possibly makes you think that all of a sudden he is going to be a good corner? Behind WR and FS, CB2 is the biggest need for this team.

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              • #8
                Two years ago we didn't give up much through the air because teams could run right through us. We were able to get scheme's in to cover up our weakness in the secondary.

                We fixed part of our run defense this last year and team's were able to victimize our secondary.

                The biggest difference between Trufant and Jennings at this point of time wasn't being in position to make the play. Trufant went with the safe play normally because he didn't have any faith in the guys behind him. We saw that again this year, as well as teams throwing away from him, which led to a huge drop in his interceptions.

                When Trufant was in position, he did something at least got a hand in the receivers face or look back to see where the ball is. Jennings doesn't even look back for the ball, he just face guards the whole time.

                Jennings hasn't shown me he has the skills to be a number 2. I constantly see him getting beat on double moves or slants.

                Also, Wilson is electric on kickoffs, I get that. The point I was trying to make is, you don't risk your future in situations like kick off returns where they can get hurt. Wilson probably has more value to this team as a kick returner and nickleback than as a #2 corner.
                Video games keep me sane

                University of Washington Huskies: 7-6

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Cicero View Post
                  Distractions? That's a cop out. Our pass defense wasn't that amazing two years ago either, we were right in the middle of the pack. We were also 6th in sacks that year and got a ton of pressure on opposing QBs. Our pass rush hid our secondary.

                  Some Hawks fans seem to really believe that either Jennings or Wilson will develop into decent corners, and I'm just not buying it. Ya, Wilson can play nickle back but that's it and we still need a CB2. Jennings has had had two years in the NFL to figure things out, what possibly makes you think that all of a sudden he is going to be a good corner? Behind WR and FS, CB2 is the biggest need for this team.
                  Everything you say makes me think you just started watching this team just this past season. Jennings has been in the NFL for 3 seasons and has had one bad season. During the year in 2007 there were some Seattle fans that thought he was a better pure corner than Trufant. His rookie season was a success and in 2007 he improved dramatically. I'm not ready to give up on him because one poor season. Just like I'm not ready to give up on Hass or Tatupu, etc. Few players played well this past year.

                  Before the 2008 season, Seattle showed up on a lot of lists as having a top 5 CB corps. How soon you forget. Or maybe you just started watching the Seahawks in 2008, in which case I am sorry.
                  summond822- Seattle will not draft a WR in the first 3 rounds.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by summond822 View Post
                    Two years ago we didn't give up much through the air because teams could run right through us. We were able to get scheme's in to cover up our weakness in the secondary.

                    We fixed part of our run defense this last year and team's were able to victimize our secondary.

                    The biggest difference between Trufant and Jennings at this point of time wasn't being in position to make the play. Trufant went with the safe play normally because he didn't have any faith in the guys behind him. We saw that again this year, as well as teams throwing away from him, which led to a huge drop in his interceptions.

                    When Trufant was in position, he did something at least got a hand in the receivers face or look back to see where the ball is. Jennings doesn't even look back for the ball, he just face guards the whole time.

                    Jennings hasn't shown me he has the skills to be a number 2. I constantly see him getting beat on double moves or slants.


                    Also, Wilson is electric on kickoffs, I get that. The point I was trying to make is, you don't risk your future in situations like kick off returns where they can get hurt. Wilson probably has more value to this team as a kick returner and nickleback than as a #2 corner.
                    That is where you are wrong. Many people got on Trufant in his early years about getting burnt consistently. He is very similar to JEnnings in that theywere always in position but never made the play. When Jennings gets more experience he will be a very good CB.

                    I am also confident that the Seahawks FO leans more towards my stance than yours. If you want to make a sig bet on it, we shall. Seattle will not draft a CB in the first 3 rounds.
                    summond822- Seattle will not draft a WR in the first 3 rounds.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by summond822 View Post

                      Also, Wilson is electric on kickoffs, I get that. The point I was trying to make is, you don't risk your future in situations like kick off returns where they can get hurt. Wilson probably has more value to this team as a kick returner and nickleback than as a #2 corner.
                      No. Wilson 100% has more value as a KR & #2 corner.

                      Players who start on O or D and were among the top 20 in KR yards last season:
                      CB Ellis Hobbs
                      WR Eddie Royal
                      WR Johnnie Lee Higgins
                      WR Ted Ginn
                      + prominent contributors Leon Washington and Darren Sproles who were basically RB 1bs.

                      Wilson being a good return man has nothing to do with him at CB. So you are trying to say that you want to take him off KR duties and just have him work at CB not to risk injury? Or that him being the KR is an indication that he's not valued as a CB by our coaching staff?

                      Starters on special teams is fine.
                      "I'm Ko Simpson!"

                      - Ko Simpson

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by cacksman View Post
                        Everything you say makes me think you just started watching this team just this past season. Jennings has been in the NFL for 3 seasons and has had one bad season. During the year in 2007 there were some Seattle fans that thought he was a better pure corner than Trufant. His rookie season was a success and in 2007 he improved dramatically. I'm not ready to give up on him because one poor season. Just like I'm not ready to give up on Hass or Tatupu, etc. Few players played well this past year.

                        Before the 2008 season, Seattle showed up on a lot of lists as having a top 5 CB corps. How soon you forget. Or maybe you just started watching the Seahawks in 2008, in which case I am sorry.
                        I've lived in this state all of my life. Yes I wrote two years, I smacked myself in the head after you pointed that out. I never drank the "top 5 CB duos in the league" Kool-Aid and I'm not about to change my mind on Jennings. Before this season I thought he was a mediocre corner, but after watching him get burn Sunday after Sunday and getting (deservedly) benched, I realized the pass rush was hiding his weak coverage skills. If you want I can make a poll in the NFL section and ask if A. they thought we at any point in time had one of the top 5 CB duos in the league, and B. if they think Kelly Jennings is a good corner.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Cicero View Post
                          I've lived in this state all of my life. Yes I wrote two years, I smacked myself in the head after you pointed that out. I never drank the "top 5 CB duos in the league" Kool-Aid and I'm not about to change my mind on Jennings. Before this season I thought he was a mediocre corner, but after watching him get burn Sunday after Sunday and getting (deservedly) benched, I realized the pass rush was hiding his weak coverage skills. If you want I can make a poll in the NFL section and ask if A. they thought we at any point in time had one of the top 5 CB duos in the league, and B. if they think Kelly Jennings is a good corner.
                          What a stupid idea. Even if Jennings was a very good corner, and the fact that Seattle gets very little respect, they would probably say no. Especially after he had a bad season.

                          How about instead of asking people that know nothing about the Seahawks, we look and see what the Seattle FO is going to do. Like I said they will not go CB in the first 3 rounds.

                          All I have to say at this point (since youve obviously made up your mind) is that I'm glad you dont make decisions for the Seahawks.
                          summond822- Seattle will not draft a WR in the first 3 rounds.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by cacksman View Post
                            What a stupid idea. Even if Jennings was a very good corner, and the fact that Seattle gets very little respect, they would probably say no. Especially after he had a bad season.

                            How about instead of asking people that know nothing about the Seahawks, we look and see what the Seattle FO is going to do. Like I said they will not go CB in the first 3 rounds.

                            All I have to say at this point (since youve obviously made up your mind) is that I'm glad you dont make decisions for the Seahawks.
                            Plenty of people on the internet who aren't Hawks fans acknowledge Trufant is a good corner. Just because they don't get to see every one of our games doesn't mean they can't evaluate anyone. I only watched a couple 49'ers games, but I know Mark Roman is horrible.

                            Well hey, I don't think CB should be addressed until round 3 at the earliest either. I personally think they should either sign an FA corner or trade a pick for Sheppard. I think CB2 is our 3rd biggest need, behind WR and FS.

                            That being said, here is who I would like for our first three picks, assuming we don't send our third to Philly for Lito.

                            1. Crabtree
                            2. Rashad Johnson
                            3. Best CB available
                            Last edited by Cicero; 02-13-2009, 11:38 AM.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Cicero View Post
                              Plenty of people on the internet who aren't Hawks fans acknowledge Trufant is a good corner. Just because they don't get to see every one of our games doesn't mean they can't evaluate anyone. I only watched a couple 49'ers games, but I know Mark Roman is horrible.

                              Well hey, I don't think CB should be addressed until round 3 at the earliest either. I personally think they should either sign an FA corner or trade a pick for Sheppard. I think CB2 is our 3rd biggest need, behind WR and FS.

                              That being said, here is who I would like for our first three picks, assuming we don't send our third to Philly for Lito.

                              1. Crabtree
                              2. Rashad Johnson
                              3. Best CB available
                              I'm with cacks here. CB is such a fickle position. Fact is, we have three young guys with unquestionable talent who still have a chance to improve. I doubt we address CB in the draft.

                              As for your 1-3 mock, I love R. Johnson but I doubt Ruskell takes him because he has some character issues. Oh well.
                              "I'm Ko Simpson!"

                              - Ko Simpson

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