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2011 Patriots Draft

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  • Originally posted by FlyingElvis View Post
    What do you look for when deciding if a 5tech prospect will be better as a 1 vs. 2 gap 5tech?
    This is becoming a complicated question to answer because the definition is being expanded for both types of players from what it used to be because of the sheer number of teams in the NFL switching/maintaining 3-4 defenses. The demand for defensive linemen to fit those schemes is at an all time high right now and probably won't go down anytime soon.

    But yeah, getting into it, I'm sure your aware of what we do with our defensive linemen. The primary responsibility is for them to play the run and eat space and free up space for the outside linebackers to set the edge/rush the passer and for the ILB's to come up the middle and make plays on the run. If they draw a double team, you're OK with that because there's a good chance that means someone from the second level on the front seven will be unblocked and get a free shot at the quarterback and or runningback. At the same time, you don't want a Vince Wilfork type guy. You want someone who can effect plays with their length and athleticism just as much as they can anchor. As Antion mentioned and we all say, Richard Seymour had a Hall of Fame career doing this. At the time when he came out, he was described as being "too tall for a tackle, not fast enough to be a defensive end". As it turns out, that translates incredibly well into being a five technique. Hopefully you get a guy who can effect the plays in the passing game from that spot too, but honestly that's a secondary objective for both me and this team it seems like.

    As far as a one gap scheme, you basically look for a 4-3 UT who looks good coming off the edge and running the arch. Their job is to simply beat the tackle in front of them. It's a much faster scheme and is successful on the basis of chaos at the front seven instead of organized confusion like ours. It's a fun scheme to watch actually and has been very effective for some teams.


    That's a very basic definition of that stuff, let me know if you need anything more.

    R.I.P. Junior Seau

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    • Ok, I understand the philosophy part of it, thanks.

      So what do you see in each player (Heyward v. Jordan) that makes one the clear favorite for 1 gap v. 2 gap? Is it strictly measurables? Game tape?

      I ask b/c I can't imagine both guys have played both roles. So there can't be definitive proof that one guy can 2 gap but the other can't, right?

      Sig img shamelessly stolen from teh interwebs

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      • Originally posted by FlyingElvis View Post
        Ok, I understand the philosophy part of it, thanks.

        So what do you see in each player (Heyward v. Jordan) that makes one the clear favorite for 1 gap v. 2 gap? Is it strictly measurables? Game tape?

        I ask b/c I can't imagine both guys have played both roles. So there can't be definitive proof that one guy can 2 gap but the other can't, right?
        Cameron Heyward plays with more powder and has greater leg strength. He has more in common with a defensive tackle than an DE contrary to the position he plays. He can make plays on the runner even when he's got a guy on him.

        Jordan is a much superior athlete. That offers some advantages obviously, but he'll also get caught out of position easier than because like all good athletes, he'll cheat a bit to make big plays. Easier to take out of the play when he's blocked too, although he's no slouch in that area.

        Both of them played similar roles in college and wouldn't have any issue translating to our scheme.

        R.I.P. Junior Seau

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        • Thanks.

          Originally posted by ElectricEye View Post
          Both of them played similar roles in college and wouldn't have any issue translating to our scheme.
          This is what I was thinking based strictly on measurables.

          As much as I love Seymour, I think it's clear the NFL has changed enough that the balance has shifted considerably and a guy with the ability to pressure the QB is far more desirable.

          We didn't spend much time this year discussing our major need for a stout, run stuffing DE to help contain the run. lol

          Sig img shamelessly stolen from teh interwebs

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          • Don't underestimate Heyward in that regard though. Throw on the tape of the Sugar Bowl. He completely owned DeMarcus Love and disrupted the entire Arkansas passing game. Jordan is the better player at this point, but Heyward really isn't a bad consolation prize.

            R.I.P. Junior Seau

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            • Originally posted by FlyingElvis View Post
              We didn't spend much time this year discussing our major need for a stout, run stuffing DE to help contain the run. lol
              But I think we should've. It all starts with stopping the run imo. That's why I like Jarvis Jenkins so much. He played 1-tech for Clemson and is actually pretty underrated right now. I think he can play RDE in our scheme and while he might not be a 8 sack player like Seymour, he will eat up a lot of space and make room for the OLB we draft in the first. ;)

              Originally posted by ElectricEye
              I'm a whiny little kunt. Feel sorry for me as I go masturbate to a picture of my mom dressed as a teletubby.

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              • Plus...you know...I thought we needed a stout run stuffing defensive end...

                R.I.P. Junior Seau

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                • oh, a wise guy, eh?




                  lol


                  I'm cool with either. Value, value, value. Kerrigan or Jordan @ 17. Heyward in the 20 range as a consolation prize.

                  Sig img shamelessly stolen from teh interwebs

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                  • We would be lucky to get Jordan at this point though. If I was one of those guys that did rankings I would probably put him as the best overall defensive linemen in this class right now for 3-4 teams. We might luck out though.

                    R.I.P. Junior Seau

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                    • I agree. There are too many 3-4 teams in front of us for him to fall to 17. Kerrigan's fit in 3-4 & 4-3 should put him out of range at 17 as well.


                      Unless we can get one of the top 2 WRs (also doubtful,) I just don't see us staying at 17. Though I could see us just taking Heyward there, which would be fine by me. "Overdrafting" is a term reserved for guys who bust. lol

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                      • After watching some Colorado on ESPN3, I am starting to think Jimmy Smith would be a HUGE steal at 28.

                        Smith's one deficiency is his stiff hips. He has Asomugha shutdown potential though. Someone will have to work with him a bit to correct those hips... but he could be the best CB in this draft. (Yes, Better than Patrick Peterson, Prince Amukamara, and Brandon Harris)
                        **** her in da *****!

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                        • I like Jimmy Smith a whole lot. I really don't think he lacks elite agility like some people seem to think. I don't think he's the best corner in the class, but someone is going to get a steal out of him in the late first round for sure. Might not even last that long with a good combine. Really wouldn't mind if he was the pick as long as we keep all our other picks and address our needs.

                          R.I.P. Junior Seau

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                          • I like Jimmy Smith a good bit. Not sure why he's not more highly touted at this point in the draft process. My guess is that it's because his name is so plain. If he had a name like Prince Amukamara, he'd get a lot more hype.

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                            • I Herzlich on this team so bad that I've been going through all the scenarios in which he'd fit on the roster... One is him just being a straight upgrade over Guyton. Guyton might have a leg on him right now, but Herzlich is so much smarter and instinctive that any current physical advantage that Guyton has would be covered (plus Herzlich would lap him within a year from a physical stand-point). The other is that he's an upgrade over Ninkovich as the utility LB. Once he gets the 20 more pounds his frame can easily hold without losing any potential agility or speed, he'd be a force as someone you move all over the defense and use to disguise blitzes and coverages.

                              Bottom line...I love Guyton and Ninkovich, and there are very few players from the '10 squad I want to see go (wouldn't care if Slater, Wilhite, and a few fringe OLs go), but Herzlich just brings more to the defense comparatively. The only thing keeping him from being a lock for the Patriots is the success they had with Spikes.

                              I'm debating whether I'd like Herzlich more than a pass rusher (because that just might be the trade-off).

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                              • I can't think of anything/anyone I'd rather draft (realistically able to) over a quality pass rusher.
                                -Boston Red Sox-New England Patriots-Boston Celtics-

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