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  • Originally posted by AntoinCD View Post
    Disagree. I think it's the easy option to blame the players. It's not simply a coincidence that anyone the Pats draft in the secondary have't been good players.

    The Pats LBs are big by design. Their size is a massive part of the scheme. You can't blame Hightower because he's 270lbs. BB basically wants to use his front 7 to stop the run. How often do you see Chung or Gregory or Wilson etc make the run stuff up the middle? Virtually never. The job of the safeties is to play zones waiting for the pass. Not often do they play a simple cover 2 shell. The DBs play so many different types of defense. Cover 1, 2, 3, robber, man etc. They don't have a true FS. Patrick Chung playing 30 yards of the line of scrimmage is a fault in the scheme, it is not Chung's fault. Yet often times he rotates deep while Gregory or Wilson come up to an intermediate zone.

    The Pats don't have the defensive talent to line up in one defense and say to the offense "this is what we got, what have you got?" but in saying that very few teams do. However BB has gone too far to counteract this. Every DB has so many responsibilities for so many different possible outcomes. It is what BB such a respected coach so many years ago but he has possibly gone too far. Some times you just have to say go out and play and see what we have.

    As for the question scheme or players, does anyone really think Sterling Moore or Kyle Arrington are better players than Ras-I Dowling? Because they aren't but Dowling is simply not good in zone
    It's not like he hasn't tried the man coverage route though. They ran a ton of man against Seattle with extremely mixed results. They tried manning McCourty and Dowling up against Marshall and V-Jax in the opening weeks last year with poor results. They mix man and zone in every game. It's not like playing bump and run is some magic bullet that is going to solve the issues that our guys fundamentally have covering people. Last week we were more zone exclusive because I don't think BB believed Hill, Kerley, Keller, and Sanchez could be disciplined enough to pick apart a zone defense. He was wrong and the Patriots looked awful, but they've looked awful plenty before in man looks.

    I want to see what Dowling and Dennard can do playing bump and run on the outside because honestly it can't get worse than what we have, but it's not like either of those guys were amazing man prospects coming out. Dowling was lauded for his press skills and physicality off the line, but a good deal of scouts thought his best fit would be in a Tampa-2 scheme, and Dennard is a limited athlete.

    McCourty was taken as a zone CB as was Wheatley. Butler was just awful. Arrington is very physical and does a good deal of bumping off the line, but he's not a good enough athlete to keep up with guys. These guys aren't man corners, and I have a hard time believing that handing guys a more difficult task when they're struggling is a good idea.

    They've been handed a very difficult set of cards, I won't disagree with that, but I've just seen too many attempts to absolve them of any blame. I mean for god's sake 3 weeks ago we were talking about how the coaching staff is teaching them the wrong technique. Now it's the system, what is next week going to be? They're wearing the wrong type of cleats.

    This defense has been assembled all wrong. They have 4 nice pieces, but the rest of it is an absolute disaster. They need to get guys who can play man, sub-linebackers who can actually move, and a DT who can actually get after the QB. Until those things happen I think it's going to be more of the same no matter what scheme, technique, safeties, or whatever we have.

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    • I wonder if it would take an injury on the DL to get the Patriots to consider bringing him in.
      **** her in da *****!

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      • I know I'm looking too far ahead at this point, but does anyone else think 2013 needs to be a trade back/trade down year? The Patriots had the youngest starting lineup in the league to begin the season, and despite some of the defensive struggles, they have some young talent at every position to develop. Wide receiver and potentially right guard could use youth injections, but the Patriots have consistently ranked among the best offenses in the league this year; it seems like a waste to work on scoring more points when giving up points is the problem.

        The solution appears to be finding more specialized players. Obviously an interior pass rusher, maybe a rotational end, a linebacker who can cover tight ends. Are any of those necessary in the first or second round, though? It seems like the majority of the defense is pretty sound, but can be exploited in consistent ways which are best addressed with mid-round rotational players. The chances of finding a long-term starter in the third or fourth round in the front seven are pretty low (20-30%) but the starting lineup already looks pretty good.

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        • I don't really care if they trade back or not. What they need to do is find people who will contribute right away in the areas they need help in. If someone like Jelani Jenkins shoots up draft boards, and the Patriots think he'll be a Michael Boley type cover linebacker in the NFL, but they only plan on playing him 30-40% of the time they should still pull the trigger. Same with a guy like Sheldon Richardson, if they think he'll come in and play 30% of the snaps, but he'll produce like Geno Atkins did early in his career then pull the trigger as well.

          The only thing they can't do early is take a high upside developmental guy who specializes in the run game (Hightower) even if they plan on playing him all 3 downs. Get guys who can stop the pass, and get the best ones that are available regardless of how much they plan on playing them.

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          • Originally posted by cmarq83 View Post
            I don't really care if they trade back or not. What they need to do is find people who will contribute right away in the areas they need help in. If someone like Jelani Jenkins shoots up draft boards, and the Patriots think he'll be a Michael Boley type cover linebacker in the NFL, but they only plan on playing him 30-40% of the time they should still pull the trigger. Same with a guy like Sheldon Richardson, if they think he'll come in and play 30% of the snaps, but he'll produce like Geno Atkins did early in his career then pull the trigger as well.

            The only thing they can't do early is take a high upside developmental guy who specializes in the run game (Hightower) even if they plan on playing him all 3 downs. Get guys who can stop the pass, and get the best ones that are available regardless of how much they plan on playing them.
            If I'm being honest and the Pats don't go offensive line in the first then I don't see where they get a full time starter unless they go CB. Guys like Richardson, Short, Ansah, Carradine etc won't be every down guys to start with, or even by the end of the year.

            The problem with the Pats is they change so drastically depending on opponent. They may be in base 70% against one team and sub 70% against another. Trying to deduce who they will value is almost impossible


            BoneKrusher killing it with the sig

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            • Branch cut. Salas and Talib added to active roster.
              I didn't see the WR transaction coming.
              -Boston Red Sox-New England Patriots-Boston Celtics-

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              • I'm cool with Salas on the active roster. Branch wasn't making enough of an offensive impact to prevent the Patriots from getting younger at the position.

                Patriots/Colts preview:

                http://www.nepatriotsdraft.com/2012/...ek-eleven.html

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                • Nice write up as always Matthew. I think this game is going to be won in one of two areas. The defensive line and the secondary.

                  Chandler Jones will go up against Castonzo which is a match up you have to favour Jones in. On the left side of the defensive line Cunningham and Nink will go up against Winston Justice who is most famous for being whipped play after play by Osi Umneyiora a few years back en route to a 7 sack performance. The DEs should have some success today, however the interior of the Colts line is just awful. Satele struggles with bigger, more powerful guys and the OGs as you mentioned are at best journeymen. If the defensive line can disrupt Luck then it could be a good day. Although one thing Luck does well is scramble within the pocket whilst keeping his eyes down the field.

                  In the secondary it will be interesting to see how often Talib plays and who he matches up on. If he were with the team a few more weeks I would expect him to primarily be on Reggie Wayne, however with Wayne being used as the move WR this year BB may decide just to employ Talib on one side in a certain type of coverage. Either way expect Wayne to be bracketed most of the day. The front 7 will like their chances against this Colts run game so it all comes down to stopping big plays. Donnie Avery and TY Hilton have both had some big chunk plays this year and the Pats have a tendency to give them up. However if they can get up early and limit Wayne I would like to hope that the secondary can force Luck into some mistakes and make this one a comfortable win.

                  My prediction is 31-20 Pats


                  BoneKrusher killing it with the sig

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                  • I think the Patriots will win as well, maybe 31-24? I'm nervous about Andrew Luck and the receiving options, but New England should be able to score fairly easily. This is not one of the best defenses the Patriots will see this season, especially without Dwight Freeney playing as well as he traditionally has.

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                    • Originally posted by Matthew Jones View Post
                      I think the Patriots will win as well, maybe 31-24? I'm nervous about Andrew Luck and the receiving options, but New England should be able to score fairly easily. This is not one of the best defenses the Patriots will see this season, especially without Dwight Freeney playing as well as he traditionally has.
                      Yeah Mathis is the main guy now on that defense.

                      I also forgot to mention Dwayne Allen for the Colts. Fleener hasn't gotten going yet and is inactive, however Allen has made some nice plays in recent weeks. Guarding TEs is one of the worrying points about the Pats defense this year as well. I do think the Colts can score, my hope is that the Pats can get a quick start and force the Colts to be one dimensional.


                      BoneKrusher killing it with the sig

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                      • Yeah I don't see us letting Edelmen go. I dont see a ton of other teams lining up to take him, and I think we can get a pretty decent team friendly deal signed with him.


                        Originally posted by WMD
                        Jesse realizing Walt was Santa Claus could really shake things up.
                        Originally posted by gpngc
                        I don't know how old you are, but if you can get to 24/25 without getting arrested or killed, you've done well for yourself lol.

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                        • Originally posted by descendency
                          Yep. The Texans have the Colts twice and the Vikings left. We could be the #1 seed if we win out and the Texans lose to the Colts or Vikings as well.

                          However, if the Ravens and Patriots both win out and the Texans somehow lose 3+ games out of the next 4, the Ravens would be the #1 seed. (because they will beat Denver, who won't be able to tie either with a loss).

                          So winning out just about guarantees us a bye week.
                          Not true, if we win out were automatically ahead of the Ravens since we own the better AFC record despite them beating us. Its why we have the second seed despite having the same record they have and them holding the tie breaker.


                          Originally posted by WMD
                          Jesse realizing Walt was Santa Claus could really shake things up.
                          Originally posted by gpngc
                          I don't know how old you are, but if you can get to 24/25 without getting arrested or killed, you've done well for yourself lol.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Jvig43 View Post
                            Not true, if we win out were automatically ahead of the Ravens since we own the better AFC record despite them beating us. Its why we have the second seed despite having the same record they have and them holding the tie breaker.
                            We have the second seed because we are in a 3 way tie. If we are in a 2 way tie with the Ravens, we lose.
                            **** her in da *****!

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Jvig43 View Post
                              Yeah I don't see us letting Edelmen go. I dont see a ton of other teams lining up to take him, and I think we can get a pretty decent team friendly deal signed with him.
                              I think he has a good enough developmental skill set that will make someone pay him more than we're going to be willing to. He still has potential as a slot receiver, can be a 3rd down back, could be a wildcat QB, is a great punt returner, and if somebody really wanted he could probably be a functional NFL safety. There are too many options out there that would probably lead to him getting more snaps than he does here. I think we've actually messed up his development a little bit. There are really good physical tools to be utilized if somebody had him focus on doing one thing well.

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                              • My desired free agent re-signings in bold:

                                RB Danny Woodhead
                                WR Julian Edelman
                                WR Donte' Stallworth
                                WR Wes Welker
                                TE Jake Ballard (ERFA)
                                TE Michael Hoomanawanui (RFA)

                                TE Visanthe Shiancoe
                                OT Sebastian Vollmer
                                OG Jamey Richard
                                OG Donald Thomas
                                DL Ron Brace

                                DL Trevor Scott
                                LB Bobby Carpenter
                                LB Dane Fletcher (RFA)
                                LB Niko Koutouvides
                                LB Jeff Tarpinian (ERFA)
                                LB Tracy White
                                DB Will Allen
                                DB Kyle Arrington
                                DB Josh Barrett
                                DB Patrick Chung
                                DB Marquice Cole
                                DB Aqib Talib

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