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  • #46
    Originally posted by Captain Fear View Post
    I'm sure he will get a chance to compete in training camp. He also has value on our practice squad running the scout team offense prior to weeks we play a scrambling QB. I think it comes down to a battle between McCown and JJ for 3rd string. If JJ wins, McCown is cut. If McCown wins, JJ to the PS.

    If JJ does get cut, he should have a long career waiting for him Canada. His skill set is perfect for the CFL.
    I'm surprised by this because I think there is almost a 0% chance McCown gets cut.

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    • #47
      Originally posted by Caddy View Post
      I'm surprised by this because I think there is almost a 0% chance McCown gets cut.
      Yeah. I'm thinking it comes down to Johnson vs Leftwich if we only plan on taking 3 QBs into the regular season. McCown has potential trade value if he plays well this year. Leftwich didn't receive any siging bonus, so he could be released with no recourse to the team.

      The only problem with this scenario is that we would have absolutely no verteran experience at the postion with a depth chart of Josh Freeman, Luke McCown, and Josh Johnson.

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      • #48
        Originally posted by Caddy View Post
        I'm surprised by this because I think there is almost a 0% chance McCown gets cut.
        A mediocre QB, who does not fit our scheme, with coaches who have no loyalty to him would suggest there is a chance he gets cut. That said, nobody knows exactly what our scheme is yet, so I am just basing that on my understanding of what I have heard. But, as it has been pointed out to me, my observation and comprehension skills are extremely lacking. So take my opinion for what its worth, that is, an opinion on a message board.

        If signing Leftwich was just a smokescreen to make people believe we weren't interested in Freeman, then that could make him the likely cut. However, my buddy is a huge Steelers fan, and he was telling me that Leftwich was somehow very popular with the fans and performed well in limited action and in practice. Maybe he's more than the pile of garbage we're expecting. If we are running a run heavy/vertical passing offense, Leftwich should fit in well and have an excellent chance of winning a spot. Given the Freeman / Rothlisberger comparisons, and the Steelers recent success, modeling our offense after there's wouldn't be such a bad idea. May as well bring in a guy with experience in that system.

        I think our QB depth chart after training camp will be as follows:

        1st - Freeman - I don't want them to put him in before he's ready, but our offense won't rely to heavily on his arm. His ability to handle the snap and hand it off will be most important. Hopefully he can follow the model set by Ryan and Flacco last year (slowly open up the passing game as the season progresses).

        2nd - Leftwich - A similar style to Freeman would allow the offense to run the same regardless of who is playing. May start in the first few weeks depending on Freeman's readiness.

        3rd - McCown - Can be effective off the bench and helps provide valuable depth.

        PS - Josh Johnson - Run the scout team offense. Allows more time to develop. Hopefully no one plucks him.

        If JJ shows a lot of promise it training camp, I believe McCown becomes expendable. Even if McCown's the better QB, that 3rd spot would be better served on JJ. Hopefully we could trade McCown for a 5th/6th rounder. However, in that scenario, teams may just wait for him to get cut.

        Oh, did I forget Griese?....
        Last edited by Captain Fear; 04-29-2009, 09:34 AM.

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        • #49
          Originally posted by Captain Fear View Post
          A mediocre QB, who does not fit our scheme, with coaches who have no loyalty to him would suggest there is a chance he gets cut. That said, nobody knows exactly what our scheme is yet, so I am just basing that on my understanding of what I have heard. But, as it has been pointed out to me, my observation and comprehension skills are extremely lacking. So take my opinion for what its worth, that is, an opinion on a message board.

          If signing Leftwich was just a smokescreen to make people believe we weren't interested in Freeman, then that could make him the likely cut. However, my buddy is a huge Steelers fan, and he was telling me that Leftwich was somehow very popular with the fans and performed well in limited action and in practice. Maybe he's more than the pile of garbage we're expecting. If we are running a run heavy/vertical passing offense, Leftwich should fit in well and have an excellent chance of winning a spot. Given the Freeman / Rothlisberger comparisons, and the Steelers recent success, modeling our offense after there's wouldn't be such a bad idea. May as well bring in a guy with experience in that system.

          I think our QB depth chart after training camp will be as follows:

          1st - Freeman - I don't want them to put him in before he's ready, but our offense won't rely to heavily on his arm. His ability to handle the snap and hand it off will be most important. Hopefully he can follow the model set by Ryan and Flacco last year (slowly open up the passing game as the season progresses).

          2nd - Leftwich - A similar style to Freeman would allow the offense to run the same regardless of who is playing. May start in the first few weeks depending on Freeman's readiness.

          3rd - McCown - Can be effective off the bench and helps provide valuable depth.

          PS - Josh Johnson - Run the scout team offense. Allows more time to develop. Hopefully no one plucks him.

          If JJ shows a lot of promise it training camp, I believe McCown becomes expendable. Even if McCown's the better QB, that 3rd spot would be better served on JJ. Hopefully we could trade McCown for a 5th/6th rounder. However, in that scenario, teams may just wait for him to get cut.

          Oh, did I forget Griese?....
          I stopped reading after you contradicted yourself in the first two sentences.

          Well that isn't entirely true but you get the point. The reason I think McCown has a higher chance of staying around is due to his contract, which he was given by the current regime. Leftwich is a decent spot starter, no one is arguing that, I just think that there is a lot more invested in McCown which leads me too believe he is easily the favourite to make the roster after Josh Freeman and most likely start.

          The final spot comes down to a battle between Johnson and Leftwich for me. To be honest, considering we have drafted our QB of the future, I don't think Johnson has a lot of value to this team. Leftwich would be a safer option and at least gives us something to fall back on if something disastrous happens to the team.

          I also think you are underestimating McCown. He hasn't got a cannon for an arm, but it is strong enough to make mid-long distance throws with decent accuracy. Add in the fact that he is a much better athlete than Leftwich and doesn't take eighteen seconds to throw the ball and I think you have at the very least, a great second-stringer.
          Last edited by Caddy; 04-29-2009, 10:38 AM.

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by Caddy View Post
            I stopped reading after you contradicted yourself in the first two sentences.

            Well that isn't entirely true but you get the point. The reason I think McCown has a higher chance of staying around is due to his contract, which he was given by the current regime. Leftwich is a decent spot starter, no one is arguing that, I just think that there is a lot more invested in McCown which leads me too believe he is easily the favourite to make the roster after Josh Freeman and most likely start.

            The final spot comes down to a battle between Johnson and Leftwich for me. To be honest, considering we have drafted our QB of the future, I don't think Johnson has a lot of value to this team. Leftwich would be a safer option and at least gives us something to fall back on if something disastrous happens to the team.

            I also think you are underestimating McCown. He hasn't got a cannon for an arm, but it is strong enough to make mid-long distance throws with decent accuracy. Add in the fact that he is a much better athlete than Leftwich and doesn't take eighteen seconds to throw the ball and I think you have at the very least, a great second-stringer.
            I wasn't trying to contradict myself so much as qualify my opinion. I'm not an expert with insider information (I imagine none of us are). If new information presents itself, my opinion could easily change.

            Clearly we can agree to disagree on McCown. But that's cool, it would be pretty boring on here if we all felt the same way. So long as we can rub it in each others face when one is proven right or wrong.

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            • #51
              Originally posted by Captain Fear View Post
              A mediocre QB, who does not fit our scheme, with coaches who have no loyalty to him would suggest there is a chance he gets cut. That said, nobody knows exactly what our scheme is yet, so I am just basing that on my understanding of what I have heard. But, as it has been pointed out to me, my observation and comprehension skills are extremely lacking. So take my opinion for what its worth, that is, an opinion on a message board.

              If signing Leftwich was just a smokescreen to make people believe we weren't interested in Freeman, then that could make him the likely cut. However, my buddy is a huge Steelers fan, and he was telling me that Leftwich was somehow very popular with the fans and performed well in limited action and in practice. Maybe he's more than the pile of garbage we're expecting. If we are running a run heavy/vertical passing offense, Leftwich should fit in well and have an excellent chance of winning a spot. Given the Freeman / Rothlisberger comparisons, and the Steelers recent success, modeling our offense after there's wouldn't be such a bad idea. May as well bring in a guy with experience in that system.

              I think our QB depth chart after training camp will be as follows:

              1st - Freeman - I don't want them to put him in before he's ready, but our offense won't rely to heavily on his arm. His ability to handle the snap and hand it off will be most important. Hopefully he can follow the model set by Ryan and Flacco last year (slowly open up the passing game as the season progresses).

              2nd - Leftwich - A similar style to Freeman would allow the offense to run the same regardless of who is playing. May start in the first few weeks depending on Freeman's readiness.

              3rd - McCown - Can be effective off the bench and helps provide valuable depth.

              PS - Josh Johnson - Run the scout team offense. Allows more time to develop. Hopefully no one plucks him.

              If JJ shows a lot of promise it training camp, I believe McCown becomes expendable. Even if McCown's the better QB, that 3rd spot would be better served on JJ. Hopefully we could trade McCown for a 5th/6th rounder. However, in that scenario, teams may just wait for him to get cut.

              Oh, did I forget Griese?....
              I tend to agree with you here.

              The latest news is that Leftwich was signed to become the starter because McCown struggled in mini-cam[ and the coaches have little faith in him. With the new scheme and coaches that owe him nothing (like you said), I definitely see him as being the most expendable QB. He doesn't play any role in the future of this club. At least Johnson has potential to develop.

              The QB battle will be between Freeman and Leftwich. I think we'll let Freeman sit for a year and Leftwich will win the job. McCown will be a backup elsewhere.

              sig by BoneKrusher

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              • #52
                I think its a three way battle, Leftwich, JJ, Freeman, if what you say about McCown is true.

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                • #53
                  I don't think McCown is in as much danger as you make him out to be in, etk. You've never been on that bandwagon, but if we've got our QB of the future in Freeman, what good is a project? Also, we could be getting the Leftwich from Pitt, but we've got just as much chance of getting the Leftwich from Atlanta that got thoroughly out-played by Chris Redman and played as badly as Joey Harrington. Plus, we re-signed McCown after Gruden got fired, so he's got some faith from the FO. And with all the talk of Lefty just being a smokescreen, I think Luke is the safest of the 3 QBs left. Of course, this doesn't include Griese who is as good as gone and shouldn't have been brought back in the first place.

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                  • #54
                    I'd rather have Freeman, a veteran and a project over Freeman and 2 veterans. Based on current rumblings, Freeman and Leftwich will be the 1st 2 on our depth chart. I'd rather carry a project like Johnson who's a good athlete and put up ridiculous numbers in a WCO in college than a guy like McCown who will never be more than the #3 for us.

                    But again, this is based on recent talk of the coaches liking Leftwich and disliking McCown. Things could change in camp. Either way I think it makes more sense to keep Johnson over a vet, as long as he's not 2nd string.

                    sig by BoneKrusher

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by etk View Post
                      I'd rather have Freeman, a veteran and a project over Freeman and 2 veterans. Based on current rumblings, Freeman and Leftwich will be the 1st 2 on our depth chart. I'd rather carry a project like Johnson who's a good athlete and put up ridiculous numbers in a WCO in college than a guy like McCown who will never be more than the #3 for us.

                      But again, this is based on recent talk of the coaches liking Leftwich and disliking McCown. Things could change in camp. Either way I think it makes more sense to keep Johnson over a vet, as long as he's not 2nd string.
                      Eh, college numbers are just that. Especially tiny colleges. I thought he might have a chance to develop at the end of the year and was interested to see what he would look like this pre-season, but what would the staff think is my question. Would they want to wait around on a guy who the previous staff thought had the potential to be our starter in 3 years if developed right, when Freeman is that guy for the new staff now? I don't really think so. I'm not saying McCown is a starting caliber QB, but I can see him backing up in Tampa a lot longer than Lefty and his 3 day long throwing motion that has him looking at his fifth team in 5 years if he's out of here next year, which I think is entirely likely.

                      If you're buying into the talk right now, why wouldn't you be buying into the talk that Lefty was just a smokescreen? I, personally, don't really buy into much until TC. And even then, it's really not worth all that much. Like David Boston tearing it up and not making the roster. The usual 'Clayton/Stovall look incredible' talk. Marques Douglas looking good at the beginning of mini camps, then getting cut. Griese looking decent then being the absolute garbage QB that he is in-season. I think the front office likes McCown and he's younger than Leftwich, but he's not completely unprepared like JJ very well might be. Seems to me like the safest option at this point.

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by dbtb135 View Post
                        Eh, college numbers are just that. Especially tiny colleges. I thought he might have a chance to develop at the end of the year and was interested to see what he would look like this pre-season, but what would the staff think is my question. Would they want to wait around on a guy who the previous staff thought had the potential to be our starter in 3 years if developed right, when Freeman is that guy for the new staff now? I don't really think so. I'm not saying McCown is a starting caliber QB, but I can see him backing up in Tampa a lot longer than Lefty and his 3 day long throwing motion that has him looking at his fifth team in 5 years if he's out of here next year, which I think is entirely likely.

                        If you're buying into the talk right now, why wouldn't you be buying into the talk that Lefty was just a smokescreen? I, personally, don't really buy into much until TC. And even then, it's really not worth all that much. Like David Boston tearing it up and not making the roster. The usual 'Clayton/Stovall look incredible' talk. Marques Douglas looking good at the beginning of mini camps, then getting cut. Griese looking decent then being the absolute garbage QB that he is in-season. I think the front office likes McCown and he's younger than Leftwich, but he's not completely unprepared like JJ very well might be. Seems to me like the safest option at this point.
                        Yeah. I'll probably wait until the pre-season games to make my own judgments. The current rumblings aren't worth much but that's all we got for the moment.

                        I don't think Leftwich is better than McCown personally...I just get the impression that Leftwich is valued higher by the staff.

                        sig by BoneKrusher

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