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Moving to a 3/4 whatcha think?

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  • Moving to a 3/4 whatcha think?

    Would you guys like it? Hate it? Cause if were ever going to do it now should be the time with 4 picks in the top 70. I use to hate the 3/4, but I'm coming around to it. You can just do so much more pre snap. And in todays NFL with all the rules helping the offense the defense needs everything it can get! I also saw in the last game of the season we ran some 3/4 looks ( 3 or 4 plays), they had Stylez G up in a two point playing rush backer and taking backs out of the back field.

  • #2
    Switching to the 3-4 is not a realistic idea, especially with the impending uncapped year, which means that the majority of free agents will be restricted.

    Utilizing the 3-4 as a base defense would require almost a complete roster overhaul on defense, since Tanard Jackson, Aqib Talib, Quincy Black and Roy Miller are really the only guys well suited to play in it. That leaves 7 holes to filled via the draft in addition to some of our needs on offense.

    Even if we could get an ideal starting candidate with every draft pick, expecting those rookies to come in and help form a competetive defense is pure folly and trying to pigeonhole our current players who don't fit a 3-4 scheme into playing in that type of defense will make the the disaster of Jim Bates's scheme look like the Bucs 2002 defense.

    This is primarily why I do not support hiring Cowher if he insists on installing a 3-4. A change of this magnitude would set the Bucs back at least another 2 years in the rebuilding process.

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    • #3
      hate it

      why leave the tampa 2?

      We created a defense that is so effective that it is now copied by half the league, so why do we want to change it? It makes no sense. Yet we did it, before the year.

      Changing from the Tampa 2 was the worst move we made all year, and if Raheem is responsible for it I almost think he should be fired for that alone. What a stupid, stupid decision that was. The only reaosn this would make sense is if an established 3-4 coach was brought in like Cowher

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Legacy View Post

        Utilizing the 3-4 as a base defense would require almost a complete roster overhaul on defense, since Tanard Jackson, Aqib Talib, Quincy Black and Roy Miller are really the only guys well suited to play in it. That leaves 7 holes to filled via the draft in addition to some of our needs on offense.
        I agree with you but for different reasons

        You do realize that no matter what defense were in we will have about 7 holes to fill right? other than the guys you named, Ruud and Hayes are the only
        other players with futures as starters on this team. Ruud coulld play the middle in the 3-4, and Hayes would really be the only player effected by the switch

        So I dont buy this argument that the switch to the 3-4 would cause a roster overhaul, considering we are pretty much in need of a defensive overhaul as it is and only Geno HAyes would be effected by the switch


        Anyways, switching to the 3-4 would make no sense

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        • #5
          When Bill Parcells took over in big D he had a under sized 4/3 D that used speed over size and power. He kept it because they were top ten unit and got him to the playoffs that year. Year two that D failed him, so he went into the 05 draft and took 6 3/4 players. You act like our D was so good when we moved back to the Tampa 2, we still couldn't get any heat in the Qb and got ran over by almost every team we played. It's going to take the Bucs time to get back to the playoffs. I'm taking at least two years. This team is not going to be fixed fast.

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          • #6
            It'd be a terrible idea. Why make things in Tampa worse?

            sig by fenikz
            Originally posted by ImBrotherCain
            You are just a terrible person.
            Originally posted by bigbluedefense
            I have an iPhone.

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            • #7
              No terrible is being last against the run and 27th in Sacks. So if we need to overhaul the D why not draft 3/4 players. We're going to have 5 to 6 new players on that side of the ball before it's all said and done. I don't think it would set us back at all.

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              • #8
                The 3-4 is what the Tampa 2 was about 5 years ago, and will suffer the same fate.

                It's the new "in" scheme, which will be studied heavily and dissected by the savvier OCs in the league. Then teams will go back to smaller and quicker 4-3s and hey - guess what?! We'll be right there ahead of the pack. Stick to what you do well, and we do the Tampa 2 well. I also think that we have at least 6 spots that don't need to be addressed on the defense for the T2.

                Draft at least two defensive linemen, and watch the magic that having actually GOOD players creates!

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                • #9
                  No terrible is being last against the run and 27th in Sacks. So if we need to overhaul the D why not draft 3/4 players. We're going to have 5 to 6 new players on that side of the ball before it's all said and done. I don't think it would set us back at all.
                  That's becasue we have the worst Dline in the league. We seen Ruud and Hayes get blown up by RBs all year long because of the weak Dline and Bates system. If we went to a 3-4 we would have to replace our LBs as well... Hayes and Ruud are small and not particularly very strong, they can't go inside and blow people up, they are more quick coverage LBs which is what the Tampa2 and Cover Defenses we are built for. The Dline just has broken down all year long which has had a trickle down effect on the whole Defense.
                  We need some Dlineman that can command double teams and get after the QB which will free up our LBs... Also Sabby hasn't helped the run game like Flip or Lynch use to, SS coming down to help out in the run game is sorely missed.

                  Josh Freeman by Kenbo Slice

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by KennyG View Post
                    That's becasue we have the worst Dline in the league.
                    Exactly.

                    The Tampa 2 does not work without a good defensive line. Period.

                    Using this year's performance after Raheem took over as a measurement of the Tampa 2's prowess is dumb. At least give them a shot to get some players in there who can actually make the defensive line competetive and then we'll see how things play out.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by KennyG View Post
                      That's becasue we have the worst Dline in the league. We seen Ruud and Hayes get blown up by RBs all year long because of the weak Dline and Bates system. If we went to a 3-4 we would have to replace our LBs as well... Hayes and Ruud are small and not particularly very strong, they can't go inside and blow people up, they are more quick coverage LBs which is what the Tampa2 and Cover Defenses we are built for. The Dline just has broken down all year long which has had a trickle down effect on the whole Defense.
                      We need some Dlineman that can command double teams and get after the QB which will free up our LBs... Also Sabby hasn't helped the run game like Flip or Lynch use to, SS coming down to help out in the run game is sorely missed.
                      I understand that we have the worst D line in the league. And that most likely we have to get three new starters on the line (1 Dt and a 2 De's) a new starting CB (Barber 35, Mack sucks) and a new strong safety ( Sabby should never start) so if you look thats 5 new starters on the defense. The players that we have could fit the 3/4, Ruud and Black could be ILB and Stylez could be a OLB. We also have 40 million under the cap to help with the move. It could be done and fairly quickly.

                      Dallas made the move in 05 when they had guys like Dat Nguyen and LaRoy Glover on there team. You identify who you have on your team that could play in that system, bring in free agents for that system and draft players for that system.

                      I'm just sick of having an under sized defense that gets pushed around and gets the ball run down there throats. I want big boys that knock you the F out.

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                      • #12
                        I understand that we have the worst D line in the league. And that most likely we have to get three new starters on the line (1 Dt and a 2 De's) a new starting CB (Barber 35, Mack sucks) and a new strong safety ( Sabby should never start) so if you look thats 5 new starters on the defense. The players that we have could fit the 3/4, Ruud and Black could be ILB and Stylez could be a OLB. We also have 40 million under the cap to help with the move. It could be done and fairly quickly.

                        Dallas made the move in 05 when they had guys like Dat Nguyen and LaRoy Glover on there team. You identify who you have on your team that could play in that system, bring in free agents for that system and draft players for that system.

                        I'm just sick of having an under sized defense that gets pushed around and gets the ball run down there throats. I want big boys that knock you the F out.
                        Yea I'm not saying it can't be done, but Ruud and Hayes imo would have to be replaced. We seen what happened this year to them without a Dline... I mean look at the last game of the season, I have never seen a RB (Snelling) get so many stiff arms or just plain run over one our LBs in my life...
                        The thing with the tampa2 and one gap defense is that it is meant to stop the passing game first, good running teams can beat it if you don't have a great Dline..
                        E. Mack did get abused this year but he is young... Like I said earlier if you don't have a good Dline it has a trickle down effect on the rest of the Defense..

                        Josh Freeman by Kenbo Slice

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by bigbuc View Post
                          Would you guys like it? Hate it? Cause if were ever going to do it now should be the time with 4 picks in the top 70. I use to hate the 3/4, but I'm coming around to it. You can just do so much more pre snap. And in todays NFL with all the rules helping the offense the defense needs everything it can get! I also saw in the last game of the season we ran some 3/4 looks ( 3 or 4 plays), they had Stylez G up in a two point playing rush backer and taking backs out of the back field.
                          it is a horrible idea. We were ill-prepared to run Bates' 4-3 and would be even worse prepared for the 3-4. Plus, the T-2 is the most cost effective defense in the league. It is easier to find good player to fit in the T-2 either via late rounds or cheaply in FA that it just doesn't make sense to go away from it.

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