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  • #16
    Maybe you missed this on Spikes:

    #1 He's a 2 down run stopper that will likely only project to teams running the 3-4. He's a far slower version of Brandon Siler who lasted until round 7 a few years back despite all the UF homer love.

    #2 He can't really cover anybody or any amount of ground and the NFL is about speed. 5.05 40 only cuts it if the guy's hand is on the ground.

    #3 He's too slow to even play special teams. Teams put their fastest players on the coverage units and Spikes would be slower than all the other LBs and TEs and most of the DEs...so if he were drafted he would be expected to start from day 1 because backup LBs in the NFL almost always play special teams.


    You can put on the junior tape all you want... but the fact is that right now he is s-s-s-l-o-o-o-w-w-w and he has never been fast enough to play the T-2 or any experimental whatever it is you just made up. EVERY coordinator of the T-2 has had their own variation of it... but one thing that has never changed is having guys that can run at EVERY position (except CB).... Spikes will not be a Buc, a Viking, a Panther, a Colt or pretty much any other team that has a scheme where they need fast LBs (Eagles, Titans, etc).


    #1 I stand by my Robinson comments-he's not a good tackler and it's because he isn't as physical as he needs to be... there are far more physical CBs available that don't have the major problems with inconsistencies either.

    #2 I never saw that Hughes and Griffen weren't available... addressing DE should be a priority but I haven't seen the rest of the picks.

    #3 I doubt Ruud is in the longterm plans as well, but I would like to see what Ruud can do with two above average DTs in front of him and at least an average pair of DEs as well. Regardless, his replacement is definitely NOT Spikes.... tell you what we'll have a wager, if Spikes goes in round 2 (the earliest you said he would go) you win, if he goes after round 4( the latest you said he would go), I win. I have a strong feeling that he will go the way of other heralded LBs that ran extremely poorly and went undrafted or in round 7 (Ali Highsmith, Rufus Alexander, Earl Everrett, Jon Abbate, and Kai Parham).

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    • #17
      Oh yeah, #4... Quincy Black's speed... has a lot to do with his potential. Geno Hayes appears to be faster because he is quicker to diagnose and because he is playing the WILL and not battling the TE on every snap. If Quincy "gets it" he will be a monster. His athleticism is 2nd to none in the league.

      as for #5 that's all the more reason to trade down later in the 1st to get a DE because the DTs are so abundant later. It isn't a huge priority to grab a CB before round 3, anyways, Barber, Abraham, and Dwight Smith were all 3rd rounders and we can definitely find a good T-2 CB in this draft in round 3.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by brasho View Post
        Oh yeah, #4... Quincy Black's speed... has a lot to do with his potential. Geno Hayes appears to be faster because he is quicker to diagnose and because he is playing the WILL and not battling the TE on every snap. If Quincy "gets it" he will be a monster. His athleticism is 2nd to none in the league.

        as for #5 that's all the more reason to trade down later in the 1st to get a DE because the DTs are so abundant later. It isn't a huge priority to grab a CB before round 3, anyways, Barber, Abraham, and Dwight Smith were all 3rd rounders and we can definitely find a good T-2 CB in this draft in round 3.
        What do you think are the chances of Quincy Black being able to replace Ruud at MLB if he left? If memory serves correct, i think Black played MLB in College. I like his speed at that position in the T-2, and think he could have Sheldon Quarles like success there. I would also prefer seeing Ruud's potential replacement having some NFL experience, since MLB requires a firm grasp of the playbook and leadership qualities. That's not something I would rely on a rookie for.

        As for #5, I don't agree that finding good T-2 CBs late in the draft necessarily applies to today's reality. This used to work when we were the only team sporting the T-2, but now a lot of teams use it as their base defence, and other teams incorporate it in their scheme. Therefore, these scheme CBs are in more of a demand and naturally have to be drafted earlier than they did in the past. The same went for OLB/DE tweeners. These players used to slip later in the draft. Now that a lot of teams use the 3-4, these guys are going way earlier. Same applies to T-2 CBs, just not as drastically.
        Last edited by Captain Fear; 04-04-2010, 04:01 PM. Reason: adding on

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        • #19
          Black played a Hyrbid S/LB position in college so I really wouldn't compare the two. The New Mexico defense is nothing like a pro defense and I seriously doubt he can play inside for us.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Caddy View Post
            Black played a Hyrbid S/LB position in college so I really wouldn't compare the two. The New Mexico defense is nothing like a pro defense and I seriously doubt he can play inside for us.
            Why? Isn't a S/LB Hybrid exactly what a MLB in the T-2 is? I'm sure the version he was playing in New Mexico was completely different, but it shows he does have the range and coverage to make it work.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Captain Fear View Post
              Why? Isn't a S/LB Hybrid exactly what a MLB in the T-2 is? I'm sure the version he was playing in New Mexico was completely different, but it shows he does have the range and coverage to make it work.
              Not really. I mean, Black can cover and all. But I just don't think he can shed blocks well enough to play inside. Plus his speed makes him an intriguing blitzing option on the outside. His tackling ability also concerns me.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Captain Fear View Post
                What do you think are the chances of Quincy Black being able to replace Ruud at MLB if he left? If memory serves correct, i think Black played MLB in College. I like his speed at that position in the T-2, and think he could have Sheldon Quarles like success there. I would also prefer seeing Ruud's potential replacement having some NFL experience, since MLB requires a firm grasp of the playbook and leadership qualities. That's not something I would rely on a rookie for.

                As for #5, I don't agree that finding good T-2 CBs late in the draft necessarily applies to today's reality. This used to work when we were the only team sporting the T-2, but now a lot of teams use it as their base defence, and other teams incorporate it in their scheme. Therefore, these scheme CBs are in more of a demand and naturally have to be drafted earlier than they did in the past. The same went for OLB/DE tweeners. These players used to slip later in the draft. Now that a lot of teams use the 3-4, these guys are going way earlier. Same applies to T-2 CBs, just not as drastically.
                I like Black's ability to run and hit and get down the seam... his instincts and playing in space I'm not really sold on.


                As for #5, when we were finding some good T-2 CBs in the past, we were one of a small handful of teams running the T-2... flash forward to today and we are back to being a small handful of T-2 heavy teams. Teams generally want a CB that CAN play man2man for an entire game if they had to... it is nearly impossible to find but teams are sure that those CBs can't be running 4.55+ which drops those players' values which drops them in the draft which makes them ideal fits for the T-2. Guys like Javier Arenas would never fit in a man heavy scheme like in Philly or Tennessee, but he could be a real playmaker for us and could drop as low as round 4 due to size and speed concerns.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Caddy View Post
                  Not really. I mean, Black can cover and all. But I just don't think he can shed blocks well enough to play inside. Plus his speed makes him an intriguing blitzing option on the outside. His tackling ability also concerns me.
                  He has to shed more blocks playing the Sam than the Mike in our system. It is his open field tackling that I'm not sold on.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Caddy View Post
                    Black played a Hyrbid S/LB position in college so I really wouldn't compare the two. The New Mexico defense is nothing like a pro defense and I seriously doubt he can play inside for us.
                    Black played the exact same position that Urlacher did for the Lobos...and he turned out okay, I think. The big difference is that instead of 3-5 yards off the ball, the Lobo plays about 7 off the ball.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by brasho View Post
                      He has to shed more blocks playing the Sam than the Mike in our system. It is his open field tackling that I'm not sold on.
                      He will get lost in the crap heap that is our interior D-Line more than Ruud does.

                      Originally posted by brasho View Post
                      Black played the exact same position that Urlacher did for the Lobos...and he turned out okay, I think. The big difference is that instead of 3-5 yards off the ball, the Lobo plays about 7 off the ball.
                      Don't ever compare Quincy to Brian. They played the same position sure, but it's like comparing Tom Brady to Brian Griese; Both played at the same school, but are completely different players.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by bucfan12 View Post
                        Um, I'm not opposed to taking 2 wr's in the 2nd round, but I am not a fan of taking Golden Tate. I think he is going to be a good player in the slot and right now, Thats where I see Sammie Stroughter playing. If Demaryous Thomas is there at 35, he HAS TO BE THE PICK! Then at 42, I would love to see us draft Damien Williams. We get a deep threat and a solid route runner and possession WR, then we could get a CB and DE with the next 2 pciks.
                        I have the total opposite take on Golden Tate, I think he can be a number 1. He's got the speed and hands, plays WAY bigger then his height. Last year he had a lot of catches out jumping the defenders. He's exactly the type of WR I want on this team, the Steve Smith comparisons are right on I think.
                        If we did go with 2 WRs in round two Tate with Benn/Thomas/D.Williams would have a lot of potential to be a great tandem. I think there is just to many decent WRs that will be available in rounds 3 and 4 to pick two WRs in round 2 though..

                        Josh Freeman by Kenbo Slice

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                        • #27
                          We havn't showed any interest in Tate from what others have said so maybe he's not on the Buc's radar... I can see it being Benn in the 2nd and then Mike Williams in the 4/5th...

                          Josh Freeman by Kenbo Slice

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