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  • Originally posted by jrdrylie View Post
    I hate Barry Bonds as much as the next guy, but it's a shame that he used steroids. The guy might have been a top-10 player all time even without steroid.
    I dislike him probably more than the next guy, but there's no doubt in my mind Bonds would have been top 10 without steroids. He was basically had the Willie Mays all around skill set, except better in most areas.

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    • Originally posted by comahan View Post
      I love Mac, but comparing him to Barry ******* Bonds is idiotic at best.
      Is that why Barry Bonds got so butthurt by how well McGwire was hitting that he decided to take HGH and steroids? That Napoleon complex only works if you see yourself less than someone else--and clearly Bonds thought of himself as less than McGwire.

      Yes, Barry Bonds ended up with better numbers. Yes, Barry Bonds was a better player than Mark McGwire, but if we are talking about players who should NEVER EVER be overlooked to get into the Hall of Fame, Mark McGwire is right up there with any of them.

      Mark McGwire is right there with Jimmie Foxx in career wRC+. There are exactly 12 players with a career wRC+ that is higher than McGwire's. Mark McGwire with 7660 PAs is the only player in the 500 HR club with less than 9660 PAs to his name.

      In the history of MLB, no player has a better HR/PA ratio than McGwire.

      Again, you are right. McGwire isn't Barry Bonds. Bonds could run. Bonds could field. Bonds hit for a better average.

      But that doesn't mean there shouldn't be an uproar that McGwire isn't in the HOF.

      Oldie but a goodie.

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      • Originally posted by Bengals78 View Post
        Patience, discipline, eye at the plate.



        I hate Joe. Ive met him. Not a nice man.
        Same with Johnny Bench.
        It's bad when I almost would rather listen to Hawk Harrelson than Joe Morgan. Hawk may be annoying and a borderline ruhtard with most of his comments, but at least he doesn't find away in every conversation to criticize another player and bring up how much better he was.

        Also, I really hope those rumors are true for Dempster and Delgado. All day Theo circle jerk at my place if they come true!

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        • Originally posted by BloodBrother View Post
          Bonds should be in the HOF not only for being great at baseball(pre steroid use), but he should get in because that dude MASTERED the use of steroids as well

          nobody maximized their real talent + steroid use like Bonds did.
          I absolutely agree that Bonds mastered the art of maximizing his talent with steroid use. At the same time, it's kind of difficult to enshrine someone for their ability to cheat the best--considering it's against the rules and the law.

          But on the other hand, how many legends are there of HOF pitchers who were masters at doctoring the ball...

          Eh... sports are all about gamesmanship I guess. Not that I agree with it, but the precedent has been set.

          What the heck, go for it. Enshrine Bonds as a player and contributor to the game for his mastery of PEDs.

          Oldie but a goodie.

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          • I think people are just taking it the wrong way when Brodeur and I say that people arent nearly as good as Bonds. We're not saying the other guys are bad or anything like that, just that Bonds was insanely amazing.

            Pete Rose and Mark McGwire were awesome. I just dont consider them to be top 5 all time as I do with Bonds.




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            • Originally posted by iowatreat54 View Post
              It's bad when I almost would rather listen to Hawk Harrelson than Joe Morgan. Hawk may be annoying and a borderline ruhtard with most of his comments, but at least he doesn't find away in every conversation to criticize another player and bring up how much better he was.

              Also, I really hope those rumors are true for Dempster and Delgado. All day Theo circle jerk at my place if they come true!
              He wasn't pleasant to be around. Dismissed everyone as unworthy at times.
              It must kill him to see a talented 2B like Brandon Phillips besting him

              bonekrusher
              The Twitters
              themaninblack

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              • Originally posted by Bengals78 View Post
                Patience, discipline, eye at the plate.
                If they already have all of that, they likely would become great players, or at least they should with that skillset. The roid use would just help them sustain their elite level of play for a longer period of time + not have the aches and pains that most players go through during a long season year after year.

                More often than not though, we see guys who are marginal talents who are pressured into taking it in hopes of improving their play....in hopes of them being able to make good money/get that long term contract

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                • Originally posted by nobodyinparticular View Post
                  I absolutely agree that Bonds mastered the art of maximizing his talent with steroid use. At the same time, it's kind of difficult to enshrine someone for their ability to cheat the best--considering it's against the rules and the law.

                  But on the other hand, how many legends are there of HOF pitchers who were masters at doctoring the ball...

                  Eh... sports are all about gamesmanship I guess. Not that I agree with it, but the precedent has been set.

                  What the heck, go for it. Enshrine Bonds as a player and contributor to the game for his mastery of PEDs.
                  This is the thing. Each era had guys doing things to gain an advantage. When Bonds was taking roids, it was during what is now dubbed as the "steroid era"

                  we'll never know how many opposing pitchers he faced who were juicing as well. In the end, I think most if not all of these guys will get into the HOF...but it will be quite awhile. Hell, some of them might already be dead by the time they are enshrined

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                  • Originally posted by iowatreat54 View Post
                    I dislike him probably more than the next guy, but there's no doubt in my mind Bonds would have been top 10 without steroids. He was basically had the Willie Mays all around skill set, except better in most areas.
                    Top 10 yes but not in Mays class as a player. Probably a good comparison for Bonds without steroids would be Ken Griffey. Similar players to me.

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                    • Originally posted by Babylon View Post
                      Top 10 yes but not in Mays class as a player. Probably a good comparison for Bonds without steroids would be Ken Griffey. Similar players to me.
                      Bonds got on base way more than Junior




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                      • McGwire was a 1 trick pony and that 1 trick was greatly enhanced by the steroids he took. Bonds was a great all around player in every facet of the game.
                        #Chop


                        sig by BoneKrusher

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                        • What's funny was MLB was just waiting for A-rod to break all of those records to wipe their hands clean of this steroid mess, only for him to get busted

                          I think it's also naive to think that Pujols has been clean his whole career as well

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                          • Originally posted by comahan View Post
                            Bonds got on base way more than Junior
                            Junior had a better smile, though

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                            • Originally posted by comahan View Post
                              Bonds got on base way more than Junior
                              I love Griffey but Bonds OBP even before steroids were insane. Always had that great eye at the plate.
                              #Chop


                              sig by BoneKrusher

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                              • Originally posted by BloodBrother View Post
                                Junior had a better smile, though
                                And could wear a hat backwards like nobody else could.




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