Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Barry Bonds

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #31
    Originally posted by nobodyinparticular
    Actually this is not true. I remember in about 1999 I got a Topps Mystery Finest Refractors card of Barry Bonds and I was so stoked. I showed it to my friend's dad and this clearly stuck in my head "That's cool, but he's not a superstar. He's pretty good, but he's not great." So I asked him if he thought he would get in the Hall of Fame and he responded "I don't know, it's kinda iffy. If I were in charge, I wouldn't let him in. He's not elite."

    It's not so much that I think this guy's word is absolute truth, but it's indicative of his popularity and ability at that time. He truly wasn't a great of his time until he went on steroids. Frank Thomas, Ken Griffey Jr. and even Juan Gonzalez, Alex Rodriguez and Manny Ramirez were above him in terms of production and popularity. (not to mention fellow likely 'roider Mark McGwire)

    Take a look at it. Seriously. How many times was Barry Bonds even in the top 2 in HRs before 2001? Once when he led the league with 46 in 1993. The guy was good, but not great. I'm sorry, I know a lot of people here are 14 or 15 years old and can't really remember much of sports before the turn of the century, but Bonds was marginally top 10 of his time before the 'roids.
    By '99 as you said, this was pre-steroids:

    1898 games
    411 Home Runs
    445 SB
    ROTY
    8-time Gold Glove
    8-time All Star
    3-time NL MVP
    .408 OBP
    Five times was 1st in OPS

    Ken Griffey JR:

    1375 games
    350 Home Runs
    143 SB
    9-time Gold Glove
    9-time All Star
    1-AL MVP
    .378 OBP
    Never was 1st in OPS


    Griffey had more home runs. :|

    Comment


    • #32
      There's a reason Bonds was the player of the decade in the 90's. Had he retired in '99 and never juiced, he's be a lock for the HOF. I say he gets in (not neccesarily just for the reasons I listed, but I'm not going to get too in depth on this, I've had this discussion way too many times).

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Shiver
        Originally posted by nobodyinparticular
        Actually this is not true. I remember in about 1999 I got a Topps Mystery Finest Refractors card of Barry Bonds and I was so stoked. I showed it to my friend's dad and this clearly stuck in my head "That's cool, but he's not a superstar. He's pretty good, but he's not great." So I asked him if he thought he would get in the Hall of Fame and he responded "I don't know, it's kinda iffy. If I were in charge, I wouldn't let him in. He's not elite."

        It's not so much that I think this guy's word is absolute truth, but it's indicative of his popularity and ability at that time. He truly wasn't a great of his time until he went on steroids. Frank Thomas, Ken Griffey Jr. and even Juan Gonzalez, Alex Rodriguez and Manny Ramirez were above him in terms of production and popularity. (not to mention fellow likely 'roider Mark McGwire)

        Take a look at it. Seriously. How many times was Barry Bonds even in the top 2 in HRs before 2001? Once when he led the league with 46 in 1993. The guy was good, but not great. I'm sorry, I know a lot of people here are 14 or 15 years old and can't really remember much of sports before the turn of the century, but Bonds was marginally top 10 of his time before the 'roids.
        By '99 as you said, this was pre-steroids:

        1898 games
        411 Home Runs
        445 SB
        ROTY
        8-time Gold Glove
        8-time All Star
        3-time NL MVP
        .408 OBP
        Five times was 1st in OPS

        Ken Griffey JR:

        1375 games
        350 Home Runs
        143 SB
        9-time Gold Glove
        9-time All Star
        1-AL MVP
        .378 OBP
        Never was 1st in OPS


        Griffey had more home runs. :|
        At that point Bonds had played three more seasons than Griffey did. This is what Griffey would've been on pace for had Bonds not used roids and he didn't get injured in Cincy, after the same amount of years.

        1750 games
        446 HR
        182 SB
        11-time Gold Glove
        11-time All-Star
        2-time AL MVP

        Now consider that how many times someone leads the league in OPS is an absolutely worthless stats that you threw in there to convince people who have no idea about the subject, that you're right. Bonds did not win the ROY, so I have no idea where you came up with that one. He didn't even finish in the top 5 in voting. Griffey did however finish 3rd in ROY voting.

        From '89-'99, Griffey had a better average than Barry did 8 of the 11 seasons. Griffey also had a better SLG in 8 of the 11 seasons. It's pretty easy to manipulate stats to support your argument, you can do that with almost any baseball player, but with all stats included and factoring in that Barry had three more full years on Griffey, Griffey wins fairly easily.

        Comment


        • #34
          I believe what Barry did is WORSE then what Pete Rose did, but I think he will get in.

          He was a HOF player before he used HGH(which by the way isn't considered an Anobolic Stereroid by most doctors).

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by MaxV
            I believe what Barry did is WORSE then what Pete Rose did, but I think he will get in.

            He was a HOF player before he used HGH(which by the way isn't considered an Anobolic Stereroid by most doctors).
            People use the whole "He had HOF numbers before he started using steroids." I find that to be a bunch of ********. Pete Rose had HOF numbers before he bet on baseball. "Shoeless" Joe Jackson had HOF numbers before the WS scandal. The fact is it doesn't matter what you did before you cheated, if you did in fact cheat. We probably will never know 100% if Barry cheated or not, but will all the evidence that is out there, voters will definately take it into consideration.

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by doingthisinsteadofwork
              barry bonds is a faget even without using the roids.
              hmmmm...shocking new development. guess the syringe wasn't the only thing poking him in the butt.

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by Patriots-Lions
                Originally posted by MaxV
                I believe what Barry did is WORSE then what Pete Rose did, but I think he will get in.

                He was a HOF player before he used HGH(which by the way isn't considered an Anobolic Stereroid by most doctors).
                People use the whole "He had HOF numbers before he started using steroids." I find that to be a bunch of ***********. Pete Rose had HOF numbers before he bet on baseball. "Shoeless" Joe Jackson had HOF numbers before the WS scandal. The fact is it doesn't matter what you did before you cheated, if you did in fact cheat. We probably will never know 100% if Barry cheated or not, but will all the evidence that is out there, voters will definately take it into consideration.
                and ya know what.....if Barry gets in, so should Pete Rose....because, while they both helped ruin the integrity of the game, at least Pete's stats were legit.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Patriots-Lions
                  Originally posted by MaxV
                  I believe what Barry did is WORSE then what Pete Rose did, but I think he will get in.

                  He was a HOF player before he used HGH(which by the way isn't considered an Anobolic Stereroid by most doctors).
                  People use the whole "He had HOF numbers before he started using steroids." I find that to be a bunch of ***********. Pete Rose had HOF numbers before he bet on baseball. "Shoeless" Joe Jackson had HOF numbers before the WS scandal. The fact is it doesn't matter what you did before you cheated, if you did in fact cheat. We probably will never know 100% if Barry cheated or not, but will all the evidence that is out there, voters will definately take it into consideration.
                  But Shoeless Joe and Pete Rose got caught, Barry didn't.

                  By the way, as much as I love the movie "Field of Dreams", what Jackson did was pretty much worse then both betting on baseball and taking illegal substances.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Oh, I agree. I wasn't suggesting that either get in, just pointing something out. And anyone who has read this thread knows I'm just playing devil's advocate.

                    Comment

                    Working...
                    X

                    Debug Information