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-   -   Everyone's a Bust? (http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26814)

awfullyquiet 11-10-2008 05:29 PM

Everyone's a Bust?
 
The answer to all your questions of every second/third/first year player is.

No. Not everyone's a bust.


Sometimes, there's extenuating circumstances that most people cannot comprehend because they aren't in the middle of conversations between coaches. They're not in the locker room. Talking heads don't get it sometimes. We don't get it sometimes.

Lets take a quick run down on a list of things that people don't think about when hastily calling people busts.

Are they a bust, Question to ask yourself before opening your mouth.

Number one: Have they gone through massive system changes or coaching changes?

if yes, then you should hesitate to say: hey. things may not be working out so well for them, they've possibly had trouble adjusting to the new system... example would be: like johnathan vilma did when the jets moved from the 4-3 to the 3-4.

if no, proceed to asking yourself question two.

Number two: have they been in a state of limbo as far as supporting cast?

if yes, then you shouldn't be saying: they're a total bust. football more than anything is a team sport. if you have 10 D2 players and one NFL caliber player playing against an NFL team. Let me tell you. That NFL caliber player will look like a below average free agent player in the NFL. For example, did the edge look really good in Arizona those first few years? Ehhhhhhh, no. Did he have peyton manning, reggie wayne, and marvin harrison around him? also no. Supporting casts are just as important in musical theatre as they are in football. No man is an island. Unless he's dick night train lane.

if no. continue to question three.

Number three: was his draft slot in the first round? in the top 15? is it a difficult position? is the learning curve high for the system?

if the answer is yes, you have to remember, there's a learning curve to the system of the nfl. around 30% of players probably won't get it the first time around. most 'bust' quarterbacks finally start figuring out things in the 4th, 5th year of their career. That's when they become the most productive. Sure, not every quarterback will be the second coming of Dan Marino, but, I do think that everyone is so American in thought that they want their quarterbacks, and all of their players, to be producing from day one. And i mean, who can blame them with the contracts that they're commanding from day one. The problem is that most players won't get it the first time. I actually will guarantee that most players won't understand their responsibilities and how to use their physical tools to their advantage within four years. Sure, you can look to Matt Ryan as the exception to the rule, but look at players such as Aaron Rodgers, Matt Schaub, Tony Romo, Kyle Orton... Look at Michael Turner, Albert Haynesworth, Lee Evans, and other players that really start making a name for themselves 3+ years after they enter the league? Coincidence? No way. Patience is the key here, and no one, from GM's to Fans, to Media, no one has any patience. And even less patience with first round picks. Now, here's something. I've heard people called busts here who are first round picks who are performing mediocre. I think that's a little misleading, because to start, you shouldn't be surprised... because your expectations as to what is a translatable skill and statistics to the NFL are probably skewed. So, before you shoot your mouth. Fix that skew. First round picks can behave like fifth round picks, and fifth round picks can behave like first round picks. The only difference is the amount you pay them. So. In order to actually remove yourself and determine HOW they play is to take yourself out of the mindset: this person did what in college? they were drafted where? how much money they make? if you knew none of those things and were asked to evaluate talent based on their game film from the NFL. You wouldn't be able to tell sometimes. Tis the beauty of the NFL draft.

If you answered no the questions, read my final question to ask yourself:

Number four: is the player on the following teams: the detroit lions? the oakland raiders?

if you answered yes. you should be bright enough to understand that. If not. well. We need to talk about some private lessons.

Discuss.

CC.SD 11-10-2008 05:31 PM

Come on AQ. You know Buster Davis is a bust.

bored of education 11-10-2008 05:31 PM

My privates need no lessons!

I actually think you brought up some great points aq, I am proud of you!

tjsunstein 11-10-2008 05:42 PM

Hopefully a certain few will read this. Great post. +rep

Brent 11-10-2008 05:54 PM

can this be a rule for discussions, here on NFLDC?

Vikes99ej 11-10-2008 05:56 PM

Troy Williamson still has a chance!

soybean 11-10-2008 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brent (Post 1306556)
can this be a rule for discussions, here on NFLDC?

so like... censorship?

iowatreat54 11-10-2008 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by soybean (Post 1306564)
so like... censorship?

yes, of complete stupidity

MetSox17 11-10-2008 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vikes99ej (Post 1306561)
Troy Williamson still has a chance!

I still have that shred of hope for Bobby Carpenter..

He'll turn it around! :(

M.O.T.H. 11-10-2008 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MetSox17 (Post 1306580)
I still have that shred of hope for Bobby Carpenter..

He'll turn it around! :(

Delusional! :)

Carp deserves to be branded w/ the BUST label. Awful, awful, awful. I wish we could have a re-draft so, hey we can pick up this decent ST player in the 5th round this time around.

MetSox17 11-10-2008 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M.O.T.H. (Post 1306587)
Delusional! :)

Carp deserves to be branded w/ the BUST label. Awful, awful, awful. I wish we could have a re-draft so, hey we can pick up this decent ST player in the 5th round this time around.

Oh, i know i am lol.

Barbie has been awful. And he even teased us with that beastly performance against Seattle two years ago. Oh, the possibilities had we had someone drafting that didn't completely have man-crushes on guys that have some connection to him.

renegade 11-10-2008 06:16 PM

Nice Work. I like it, it brought up some very valid points and it was timed rather well, with all these "Is ____ ____ a bust?!?!" threads popping up, hopefully this stops those threads.

Xonraider 11-10-2008 06:16 PM

Nicely put, +rep. Mind if I post this in a Raiders message board so that people shut up already with Jamarcus?

And... you know... not show the Raiders part hehe

A Perfect Score 11-10-2008 09:41 PM

I love you aq...will you marry me?

BlindSite 11-10-2008 09:45 PM

Good thread, I got pretty sick of people calling Dwayne Jarrett a bust after one rookie season with David Carr at QB.

Jimmy 11-10-2008 10:14 PM

And some men just have the knack for sucking...
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1239/...9b06a7.jpg?v=0

renegade 11-10-2008 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlindSite (Post 1306974)
Good thread, I got pretty sick of people calling Dwayne Jarrett a bust after one rookie season with David Carr at QB.

What has he done to prove he isn't a bust? he hasn't even shown flashes.

iowatreat54 11-10-2008 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by renegade (Post 1307022)
What has he done to prove he isn't a bust? he hasn't even shown flashes.

Number two: have they been in a state of limbo as far as supporting cast?

David Carr isn't exactly Peyton Manning or Tom Brady, not to mention it's only his 2nd year and he has played only 12 games

do people even bother reading what a thread is about before posting?

renegade 11-10-2008 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iowatreat54 (Post 1307026)
Number two: have they been in a state of limbo as far as supporting cast?

David Carr isn't exactly Peyton Manning or Tom Brady, not to mention it's only his 2nd year and he has played only 12 games

do people even bother reading what a thread is about before posting?

How about this season? He's got Jake Delhomme and has done nothing, he's got Steve Smith, DJ Hackett and Moose all freeing him up and taking attention away and they have a strong running game as well with Stewart and Williams. So by that question he is a bust.

iowatreat54 11-10-2008 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by renegade (Post 1307030)
How about this season? He's got Jake Delhomme and has done nothing, he's got Steve Smith, DJ Hackett and Moose all freeing him up and taking attention away and they have a strong running game as well with Stewart and Williams. So by that question he is a bust.

he's played less than one full season, how is he a bust? He is playing behind 3 receivers better than him, how is he a bust? How many times does the 4th receiver see the field in a typical game and how many 4th receivers do you know that put up big numbers?

renegade 11-10-2008 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iowatreat54 (Post 1307035)
he's played less than one full season, how is he a bust? He is playing behind 3 receivers better than him, how is he a bust? How many times does the 4th receiver see the field in a typical game and how many 4th receivers do you know that put up big numbers?

OK I'm out of BS, you win.

EDIT: Not nice AQ

SMoore 11-10-2008 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by renegade (Post 1307030)
How about this season? He's got Jake Delhomme and has done nothing, he's got Steve Smith, DJ Hackett and Moose all freeing him up and taking attention away and they have a strong running game as well with Stewart and Williams. So by that question he is a bust.

How is he supposed to get the ball if they have 3 WRs ahead of him and a strong running game?

renegade 11-10-2008 10:38 PM

read post above you

awfullyquiet 11-10-2008 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xonraider (Post 1306593)
Nicely put, +rep. Mind if I post this in a Raiders message board so that people shut up already with Jamarcus?

And... you know... not show the Raiders part hehe

Well. I think the important part IS that it's the raiders... You have some good players, not everyone's a bust. The system is a bust. The commitment to excellence is a bust. The players? Not all of them busts.

Quote:

Originally Posted by renegade (Post 1307022)
What has he done to prove he isn't a bust? he hasn't even shown flashes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by renegade (Post 1307030)
How about this season? He's got Jake Delhomme and has done nothing, he's got Steve Smith, DJ Hackett and Moose all freeing him up and taking attention away and they have a strong running game as well with Stewart and Williams. So by that question he is a bust.

No. He's not. You missed Number three: was his draft slot in the first round? in the top 15? is it a difficult position? is the learning curve high for the system?

Is it a difficult position? Wide Receiver? Yes. Especially for average to above average receivers such as your 'bust' dwayne jarrett. What are the circumstances? Timing. 12 games. Was he better than he was last year? Yes. Are most seniors better than freshman in football? Yes. Is the NFL any different? No. Is everyone a finished product from day one in the NFL? No.

"Look at Michael Turner, Albert Haynesworth, Lee Evans, and other players that really start making a name for themselves 3+ years after they enter the league?"

see this part of it. maybe i need to add a part five here. go see the edit.

edit: no i don't... it's covered in number one:

Number one: Have they gone through massive system changes or coaching changes?

I can say, going from college to the pros... That's a pretty massive system and coaching change. What is it they say? It take 3 years for a coaches influence to wear off in a location? I'd venture to say that it take 3 years to make the transition to the pros, without any coaching changes. Yes there are exceptions to the rule, but, overwhelmingly, i'd give it 3 years.

renegade 11-10-2008 10:45 PM

DAng people I was just kidding, jeez...

teh internetz = seriuzzz biznezzz!


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