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-   -   Cutler trade worth it? (http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=32275)

Kid_Ego 04-09-2009 06:05 PM

Cutler trade worth it?
 
I did some research this is what I came up with.

Orton was sacked 27 times
Cutler 11

Orton threw for 272-465 2997 yards 18 tds 12 ints
Cutler 384-616 4526 25-18

does that really translate into 2 first round picks and a third?

Btw Orton has won a play off game I believe Cutler hasnt been to the play offs?

and Can anyone tell me who cutler will throw too? Where is his brandon Marshall?

Kid_Ego 04-09-2009 06:06 PM

its my belief if the bears dont some how end up with shanahan they got screwed

regoob2 04-09-2009 10:33 PM

Go away. :rolleyes:

DaBear89 04-09-2009 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kid_Ego (Post 1590980)
I did some research this is what I came up with.

Orton was sacked 27 times
Cutler 11

Orton threw for 272-465 2997 yards 18 tds 12 ints
Cutler 384-616 4526 25-18

does that really translate into 2 first round picks and a third?

Btw Orton has won a play off game I believe Cutler hasnt been to the play offs?

i really hate that sack argument. orton isnt the lightest on his feet, especially after the ankle injury. cutler on the other hand is a pretty mobile QB and throws well on the run.

+4.5%, +1500 yds, +7 tds, +6 picks...yes please

26 yr old pro-bowler>>>>>KO...so yes.

please tell me what game Kyle Orton has ever started for the Bears in the playoffs. he came into the 2005 loss to Carolina, but has never played in the playoffs apart from that, let alone win.

Kid_Ego 04-10-2009 12:06 PM

uhm 4.5% in a completely diffrent offense that asked him to throw the ball 1.5x more. 7tds in 112 more completios with better receivers and you traded away 3 very good picks

swiftizm 04-13-2009 01:23 AM

Wow. You cannot argue stats, kid ego you obviously dont know football.

KYLE ORTON IS GARBAGE. he simply cannot throw the ball more than 15 yards downfield. He threw nothing but screens and 5 yard passes and his completion percentage was still LESS than Jay Cutlers.
OWNED.

Second off, the sack stat is AMAZING. Cutler dropped back and passed like 100 more times, yet was sacked LESS?!?!?
On top of that, Defenses KNEW Cutler was passing so they were coming after him and STILL couldnt get him.
Second, Orton not only cant throw deep, but he stands in the pocket waaaay too long.

On top of that, Cutler was trying to win games because he didnt have a defense...Orton simply handed the ball off and threw short passes and still sucked. I have watched every throw Orton has ever made and he simply NOT a good QB. He could be a SERVICABLE backup, because he wont cost you a game, but he's NOT going to win a game. He's NEVER won a playoff game so quit making things up.

TitleTown088 04-15-2009 01:14 AM

Hmm... I'm not so sure which way to go with this.... Is Cutler really 2 1sts and a 3rd better than neck beard? In my opinion, no.

However, when one accounts for Jerry's first round ( offense in specific) drafting abilities and Chicago's dogshit QB play for the better part of two decades I could see it being better value.

Either way, Cutler is now screwed. Chicago is where QBs and WRs ( don't worry Mushin, I didn't forget ya) go to die.

Kid_Ego 04-15-2009 05:15 PM

amen
Brutha

Addict 04-15-2009 05:38 PM

basically, Cutler's chances of becoming the Bears' franchise QB is a lot better than any rookie the bears could pick up with a non-top 10 pick. The bears are too good a team to, barring a meltdown, end up with a top 10 pick. So instead of blowing their picks (and $$$) on the very risky business of rookie QB's, they just up and got a guy who already proved he can carry a team.

Cutler's a definate improvement over Orton, arguiing that is just silly. Getting a franchise QB with any pick is tricky, but the odds get gradually worse as you leave the top 10, where the bears won't end up in most seasons. They wanted a franchise QB, which Orton isn't. Orton's a game manager, Cutler a game changer.

Kid_Ego 04-16-2009 01:37 PM

I guess in my opionion how about letting orton secure his role for a year or two and see if you have improvement.

Mr. Hero 04-17-2009 01:41 AM

The Cutler trade was a steal. Lock 2 wins. Championship.

Addict 04-17-2009 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kid_Ego (Post 1603501)
I guess in my opionion how about letting orton secure his role for a year or two and see if you have improvement.

You idea was to let a big-armed QB with some talent start, and wait a few years to see if he becomes better?

Didn't they just do that for four seasons with Sexy Rexy?

LizardState 04-17-2009 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kid_Ego (Post 1590980)
I did some research this is what I came up with.

Orton was sacked 27 times
Cutler 11

Orton threw for 272-465 2997 yards 18 tds 12 ints
Cutler 384-616 4526 25-18

does that really translate into 2 first round picks and a third?

Btw Orton has won a play off game I believe Cutler hasnt been to the play offs?

and Can anyone tell me who cutler will throw too? Where is his brandon Marshall?

Got to agree with the Kid here, Chicago waaaaaaaay overpaid for Cutler. No single player, even a franchise QB with a big red S on his chest, is worth 2 1st rounders. Angelo has mortgaged the Bears future with this hornswaggle of a trade, that's the leopard who hasn't changed his spots, Jerry Angelo made some questionable moves when he was doing the same job in Tampa Bay, the biggest thing he's done since coming to Chicago is give himself a huge raise.

Cutler threw most of those INTs btw when he was playing catchup, the worthless Denver defense put their offense in a hole too many times last season. All those sacks on him occurred b/c of playing catchup too, & the failure of the Broncos signature zone-blocking, which worked for a short while but once opponents had enough tape of it they saw how it could be overwhelmed with a pass rush. The upside for Cutler is he now has a 100% better supporting cast in Chicago including an o-line & a defense that can hold a lead once their offense goes ahead on the scoreboard.

Gay Ork Wang 04-17-2009 11:01 AM

you guys seriously have no idea what u are talking about

SFbear 04-17-2009 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LizardState (Post 1605333)
No single player, even a franchise QB with a big red S on his chest, is worth 2 1st rounders.

Do you actually believe this cuz I think most people would strongly disagree?

jsa230 04-17-2009 11:24 PM

In a nutshell, wait a few years and see if the players Denver picks are worth more than cutler. Who knows, this isnt a guarantee HOF, in the bank, superbowl like all the bears fans are making it out to be. If i didnt hate the bears i would be stoked too but it is becoming borderline homerism. They got a good quarterback, potentially great, which they obviously havent had in a minute so kudos. You never know if Cutler is going to go T.O. on your ass and **** your lockerroom.

Maybe im just sore b/c the Bears just got one of the best young qbs in the league and the annual trip to Chicago won't consist of a orton pass fluttering in the wind . . .

Gay Ork Wang 04-18-2009 09:25 AM

it doesnt matter how the picks turn out, trading for a young pro Bowl QB that could be the franchise qb for 10 years to come is worth it

Kid_Ego 04-18-2009 01:46 PM

Thats Ignorant Anytime you give up more then one pick for a player in todays NFL you better Be right

regoob2 04-18-2009 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kid_Ego (Post 1607498)
Thats Ignorant Anytime you give up more then one pick for a player in todays NFL you better Be right

How so? Who did we trade? Larry English? DHB? Eben Britton? Id trade any of those guys our 3rd, next yr 1st and Orton for Cutler.

bearsfan_51 04-19-2009 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kid_Ego (Post 1607498)
Thats Ignorant Anytime you give up more then one pick for a player in todays NFL you better Be right

Because every draft pick is successful in the NFL?

parrish_lemar24DBSkins 04-19-2009 11:27 AM

IMO, the Cutler trade is the equivalent of Atlanta in 1991 trading away the rights for Brett Favre to Green Bay.

Fill in a few pieces around him on offense and defense, and Cutler makes the Bears a championship contender for years.

In 10 years, he takes them to at least 3 SB appearances.

sweetness34 04-19-2009 11:52 AM

The Bears "potentially" gave up a lot for Cutler. You cannot sit here and tell me that Denver got the better end of the deal right now. 2 first rounders are nice to get in return but they are not identified quantities, they are variables with a point value.

The only thing you can measure right now in this trade is Cutler vs Orton, and in that part of the deal we dominate.

1st Rounders have a very large bust factor and it's not a guarantee that Denver gets a stud player with those picks.

And lets be honest, Kyle Orton is not the future in Denver. He's a hold over until they can find another answer (Matt Cassel Trade Version 2.0, wouldn't surprise me to see McDouchebag try it).

In today's game you have to give something to get something and a majority of the time you do "overpay." But until those two draft picks are made there is absolutely no way in hell you can say that Denver got the better end of the deal. If they draft right then yes I would say that Denver got more value but this is all really a moot point.

The Broncos (yes, the entire organization) were absolutely ******* stupid for trading away a franchise QB, or at least trying to trade him for Matt Cassel. Look I like Cassel, I think he's going to be a good QB in this league (as long as he gets some help on offense). But regardless of what type of system you run, attempting to trade away arguably the best young QB in the game for a guy who really hasn't proven jack **** in this league is one of the worst personnel decisions I have ever seen, just think if that trade went through, you think Denver fans are up in arms now, it would have been World War III in the Mile High City.

And not to mention they had their face of the franchise for the next 10-12 years and they decided to **** it all up. Now they have to go and find another QB prospect (Orton has a chance to be a good QB, but he is definitely not a difference maker), unless they feel like he is the answer to the QB position, which I find hard to believe.

You can call Cutler a whiny baby or selfish, but none of this happens if Denver takes their heads out of their asses and realizes what they did was arguably the dumbest decision any organization has ever made with a QB. Yea, yea I know about the 18 INT's, but I also know he passed over 600 times (as did Brees and his INT numbers were high too, no one talks about that though), was on his 9th running back, and had a piss poor defense yet he got his team to finish 8-8. Great offense + horrid defense = average team and that's what they were.

So to answer your question, no they did not give up too much for Cutler. The first round picks are variables in this equation and have the potential to make the deal look better for Denver's side if they can have some success with those picks, and if they can land a guy like Raji and upgrade the defense again next year, then yea I would say that Denver got better "value" in return, but it still doesn't change the fact that they traded away a franchise QB just starting to head into the prime of his career for Kyle Orton and potentially two good players. I have a feeling Josh McDaniels' name is going to be taboo for that organization and their fans for a long, long time.

And from the Bears' side, it's a start but we need better WR's. I think the OL is solid, we have a great set of TE's, and Forte is a stud but Cutler is not going to have much success if we go into training camp with Bennett, Hester, and Davis as our top 3 WR's so I'm hoping Angelo has something up his sleeve, which I figure he does. A franchise QB can make a world of difference in terms of winning year in and year out. We aren't going to be in the Super Bowl every year but assuming Cutler progresses like he did in Denver, he's going to keep us competitive every season so long as he has some sort of help on both sides of the ball.

Kid_Ego 04-20-2009 05:05 PM

I dont see Cutler as a franchise QB maybe as a potential franchie qb. But far from a finihed product. I also dont see lovie being able to finish this product. Much like a great recipe in a cok book it may look good on paper but until the results are fina I think denver is up i this deal.

Gay Ork Wang 04-20-2009 05:18 PM

so why would anyone draft why not just trade for all sorts of players, i mean they are all unproven after all, just take a player that has played already...

parrish_lemar24DBSkins 04-21-2009 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gay Ork Wang (Post 1611752)
so why would anyone draft why not just trade for all sorts of players, i mean they are all unproven after all, just take a player that has played already...


Welcome to the madness of Dan Snyder!!!

Free Agency rules, babeee!!!


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