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-   -   Jeremy Maclin or DeSean Jackson? (http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=37819)

Sniper 01-10-2010 04:25 PM

Jeremy Maclin or DeSean Jackson?
 
As pure receivers, who do you think will be the better receiver in three years? Do not factor in DeSean's punt returns.

Thumper 01-10-2010 08:09 PM

Jeremy Maclin and it isn't really close in my eyes, I've been saying it for a while that I think Maclin will be the more complete option. I have come to the conclusion that DeSean better get bigger because he isn't going to be making big plays next season, the Cowboys showed how to stop him and now he will have to adjust and if he doesn't then he will be a one year wonder type of guy.

Maclin has the makings of a top 10 if not top 5 receiver in the NFL at some point in his career and he will be there right next to Miles Austin and Hakeem Nicks.

619 01-10-2010 08:45 PM

Coming out Maclin was my top receiver of his class. I saw his absolute ceiling as something reminiscent of Tim Brown. I still see no reason why he can't evolve into that consistent thousand-yard threat year in and year out, with the capacity for a few monster seasons as well. I don't even believe poor QB play would hamper his production because of his continuously improving route running ability that should enable him to work the shorter routes to perfection much like he did in college.

In contrast, I'm not completely sure where Jackson's game will go from here; at some point he will need to bulk up (even just a bit) and take after Maclin's game. This will be especially needed once the keys to the franchise are handed over to Kolb in a couple years.

eagles6606 01-10-2010 08:46 PM

As a pure reciever, I think Maclin. He is bigger and stronger than Maclin and has about the same speed. For a rookie Maclin has incredible body control and very good hands. I see him being a more reliable target than Jackson, but you are comparing 1a to 1b. They are both very good recievers, but I think Maclin's size and body control will put him slightly above Jackson.

mellojello 04-05-2010 08:05 PM

It is Desean Jackson and it is not even close.

For you Eagles fans that think Maclin's ceiling is higher, I hope Desean doesn't resign and ends up playing on the other side of Austin with the Cowboys or anywhere else for that matter - you don't deserve Desean's skills.

Also, talking about how the Cowboys stopped Desean is a joke - yeah, all they did was constantly double team him while Maclin got zero separation on his underneath routes w/man coverage. Get a fuggin clue...

superman8456 04-05-2010 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mellojello (Post 2106362)
It is Desean Jackson and it is not even close.

For you Eagles fans that think Maclin's ceiling is higher, I hope Desean doesn't resign and ends up playing on the other side of Austin with the Cowboys or anywhere else for that matter - you don't deserve Desean's skills.

Also, talking about how the Cowboys stopped Desean is a joke - yeah, all they did was constantly double team him while Maclin got zero separation on his underneath routes w/man coverage. Get a fuggin clue...

You did watch Maclin make Mike Jenkins his ***** during the playoffs?

Why are you so bitter? Just because some people think Maclin might end up being a bit better, you think DeSean should not resign and go sign with a division rival? That's a little bit of an overreaction.

eaglesalltheway 04-05-2010 08:40 PM

Ignoring anything other than receiving abilities, I think it will be Maclin. Of course how he performs this year will go a long way into giving us a clue in the future, but Maclin has more strength to his game than DeSean, and more strength than many people realize. I think both are going to be great WRs for a very long time, I just feel Maclin will end up a little better because he has a little more balance to his game than DeSean, who I am a huuuuuuuuge fan of.

Sniper 04-05-2010 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by superman8456 (Post 2106389)
You did watch Maclin make Mike Jenkins his ***** during the playoffs?

Why are you so bitter? Just because some people think Maclin might end up being a bit better, you think DeSean should not resign and go sign with a division rival? That's a little bit of an overreaction.

MJ is just the biggest Cal nutrider ever.

mellojello 04-05-2010 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by superman8456 (Post 2106389)
You did watch Maclin make Mike Jenkins his ***** during the playoffs?

Why are you so bitter? Just because some people think Maclin might end up being a bit better, you think DeSean should not resign and go sign with a division rival? That's a little bit of an overreaction.

Since no Eagles fans are holding it down for Desean after everything he has done, I will. When it is all said and done, Desean will have the better career. Book it.

Also, the comment is only intended towards those that think Maclin will be better. For those fans that think Desean will be better, I hope he has a long and successful career for the Birds, brining the city multiple SB's.

eaglesalltheway 04-06-2010 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mellojello (Post 2106524)
Since no Eagles fans are holding it down for Desean after everything he has done, I will. When it is all said and done, Desean will have the better career. Book it.

Also, the comment is only intended towards those that think Maclin will be better. For those fans that think Desean will be better, I hope he has a long and successful career for the Birds, brining the city multiple SB's.

For those of us that think Maclin will be better, it isn't a slight to DeSean, it shows you how highly we feel about Maclin. Then you spout off about how we don't deserve him because we don't appreciate him, ha, find any one post in here saying anything truly negative about DeSean. There are comments about him being less balanced (me being one of them) but you won't find any post in here saying that DeSean is anything less than very good.

mellojello 04-06-2010 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eaglesalltheway (Post 2107489)
find any one post in here saying anything truly negative about DeSean...but you won't find any post in here saying that DeSean is anything less than very good.

Per Thumper, "I have come to the conclusion that DeSean better get bigger because he isn't going to be making big plays next season, the Cowboys showed how to stop him and now he will have to adjust and if he doesn't then he will be a one year wonder type of guy."

This is a joke, right?

First off, eaglesalltheway, I have no qualms against you. For the most part, we've mostly seen eye to eye and for your sake, I hope your Birds find the success it's looking for.

But regarding Desean, he's been making big plays all his life and did it for the birds in his first two years during a period when most receivers are paid to ride pine and don't have the ability to transition into the NFL game. Desean's changed Reid's thinking about playing rookies at the WR position, been breaking records ever since, has carried the load as the Eagles #1 WR, yet not even one Eagles fan on here holds it down for Djax and thinks he's going to be the better receiver? What gives? Do you think defensive coordinators are scheming against Dmac's "strength" or Desean's ability to get behind the defense and score from anywhere on the field? Even the non-casual, NON-EAGLES fan can see who is the more dangerous player/weapon. The Cowboys committed to shutting Desean down (nothing new by the way, I've seen it quite a bit in his career) and hats off to them because they are a dangerous team, but football is a team sport and when he's drawing double coverage as he mostly was, that leaves other guys open and it's their JOB to come up with big plays.

When DMac is activating the passing game by drawing the double coverages, stretching the field, and leaving Desean on man coverage, I will give Dmac all the credit in the world. Since the day Maclin was drafted, everyone wants to compare Desean to Maclin and I've even read that Maclin is a "bigger version" of Desean when they aren't anything alike. People see what Desean has accomplished and project that into the bigger body of Maclin and it over credits Maclin and under credits Desean. Unfortunately, I don't think bird fans (at least on here) can see that without the absence of Desean in your offense.

Is it possible that Maclin could be better when their careers are over? Of course, a lot can happen over the course of a career. However, I'd bet a years salary that it isn't going to work out that way and that's a pretty easy bet for me to make.

camp_eagles 04-06-2010 08:30 PM

Who cares they're both good and they're both eagles thats all I care about.

cunningham06 04-06-2010 08:36 PM

As of RIGHT NOW I would say Desean, with Maclin not far behind. I think Maclin will surpass him soon as a more complete receiver, but if I had to pick one for a game tomorrow, I'd take DJax.

A key thing to remember is that Desean did really well his rookie season without a real established receiving threat to take the focus off him like he did for Maclin last season. There's no doubt about it that Desean made Maclin's job easier. It was the games where teams sold out to stop Desean where Maclin had his biggest games.

So as of right now I'd say Desean but it's close, and it's in no way ridiculous to say that Maclin's better. They are very different, DJax excels in certain aspects, but Maclin is more of a prototype #1.

Thumper 04-06-2010 08:39 PM

Wow mj.... Did you see DeSean get taken out of games against the Cowboys? Don't you think people are going to figure that out? They're going to look at the tape and say "Hey, if we do this, we can stop one of the most explosive players in the nfl". DeSean needs to adjust his game if he wants to keep up because right now if other teams figure out what Dallas did, DeSean is going to have a down year. Jeremy Maclin is a guy who can do everything, he can go deep like DeSean or he can go underneath without worrying about him being snapped. Jeremy Maclin made the Dallas Cowboys his ***** and he was mighty impressive doing it and when you look at their stats, Jeremy had the better rookie season.

Thumper 04-06-2010 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cunningham06 (Post 2108586)
As of RIGHT NOW I would say Desean, with Maclin not far behind. I think Maclin will surpass him soon as a more complete receiver, but if I had to pick one for a game tomorrow, I'd take DJax.

A key thing to remember is that Desean did really well his rookie season without a real established receiving threat to take the focus off him like he did for Maclin last season. There's no doubt about it that Desean made Maclin's job easier. It was the games where teams sold out to stop Desean where Maclin had his biggest games.

So as of right now I'd say Desean but it's close, and it's in no way ridiculous to say that Maclin's better. They are very different, DJax excels in certain aspects, but Maclin is more of a prototype #1.

This and more this.

Sniper 04-06-2010 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thumper (Post 2108588)
when you look at their stats, Jeremy had the better rookie season.

Um, except for the time where he didn't.

DeSean- 62/912/14.7/2
Maclin- 55/762/13.9/4

Tack on another 440 yards and one touchdown of punt returns, and no, Maclin did not have a better rookie season.

mellojello 04-06-2010 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cunningham06 (Post 2108586)
As of RIGHT NOW I would say Desean, with Maclin not far behind. I think Maclin will surpass him soon as a more complete receiver, but if I had to pick one for a game tomorrow, I'd take DJax.

A key thing to remember is that Desean did really well his rookie season without a real established receiving threat to take the focus off him like he did for Maclin last season. There's no doubt about it that Desean made Maclin's job easier. It was the games where teams sold out to stop Desean where Maclin had his biggest games.

So as of right now I'd say Desean but it's close, and it's in no way ridiculous to say that Maclin's better. They are very different, DJax excels in certain aspects, but Maclin is more of a prototype #1.

Fair enough, you're entitled to your opinion, I'm entitled to mine and like I said, since nobody else wants to hold it down for Desean, I will. The point you make about focal points of a defense, that's easier said than done though. It changes everything.

If Dmac becomes half as good as Eagle fans are projecting (let's say the equivalent of a Austin Miles), then Desean won't draw nearly as much attention and will not be stopped. He's never played with another true #1 on his other side. Let's put it this way, when Desean was welcoming rumors that Boldin might come to the Eagles, I knew exactly why he wanted that.

Thumper 04-06-2010 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sniper (Post 2108633)
Um, except for the time where he didn't.

DeSean- 62/912/14.7/2
Maclin- 55/762/13.9/4

Tack on another 440 yards and one touchdown of punt returns, and no, Maclin did not have a better rookie season.

Except for the time he did... Maclin missed 4 games, the Carolina game, the Giants game, the Saints game and the 49ers game.

Maclin Per Game stats:
4.41 catches a game, 62.5 yards a game and .3 touchdowns a game

Jackson's per game stats:
4.1 catches a game, 60.8 yards a game and .1 touchdowns a game

Yeah...

And punt returns don't count because as you said in your first post in this thread, "don't factor in punt returns".

LonghornsLegend 04-06-2010 09:20 PM

Ugh, I can't wait for the Cowboys to play the Eagles again, because all I hear is "did you see how Maclin destroyed Jenkins in the playoff game wozers!1!!1!!!"


Look, dude had a nice game, Jenkins bit on some underneath stuff, slipped on some trick plays involving Vick, it just wasn't a good game for him and stat wise it was amazing for Maclin. That said, nobody would like it, if we used one game where Jenkins was shut down and had a few picks in every argument as to why he was going to be a top 5 CB in the league.


I hate to use this argument(and hate when other people do it too), but that wasn't even a traditional play where Vick threw that 80 yard TD to Maclin. He started like it was a run, Jenkins ran up assuming it was, and slipped getting back, take that away and dude had like 70 yards, a solid game. It's not like it was a deep double move downfield on an obvious passing down where Maclin just shook Jenkins out of his shoes so ridiculously.


Nobody wants to bring up how Maclin was being scary at the end of the game prior and alligator arming passes all game like he had no heart though. I like Maclin alot, but it's a little annoying to see people continually bring up that game like he destroyed Jenkins knowing 80 yards came off of a Wildcat fake run. It's ok to bring it up, but how about not basing entire arguments off of it.



That said, I still have to go with Jackson at this point. Haven't seen nearly enough from Maclin to say he'll be better then Jackson. Dude is ridiculous, the amount of TD's he had over 50 yards, the way he seperates from defenders, the way he can take a short slant to the house, he's nasty and looks like he's turning into a younger version of Car Steve Smith.


Maclin I like alot and think will be good, always liked his skillset at Missouri, but it would be a blind leap of faith for me to say he'd be better then what Jackson will be.


Scary thing is, Jackson isn't even as good as he's going to get yet, and when you look at his season last year it's all the more ridiculous.



Also Maclin's stats vs Dallas the other games:



3/44/0
4/58/0



But your right Thumper, Maclin made Dallas his ***** zomgzz!!!!1!!


You have got the be the most annoying person on this earth, I'd rather listen to arguments by T-new wherever he is then to have you be a raging homer and be in denial about it.

Thumper 04-06-2010 09:30 PM

Haha wow, if you're going to do that, then call out Superman and Sniper on the same thing LL because they've done the same thing.

By your logic I could say that Mike Jenkins really didn't have good games against Maclin the first two times because Maclin dropped passes so clearly Jenkins had nothing to do with that. That is just a stupid argument, you know kind of like saying Maclin wasn't that good because Mike Jenkins bit on some underneath stuff.

Crappy argument, you can't come on here and call me a homer and then go on and make crazy ass homer excuses for Mike Jenkins.

igglefanz 04-06-2010 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thumper (Post 2108588)
Wow mj.... Did you see DeSean get taken out of games against the Cowboys? Don't you think people are going to figure that out? They're going to look at the tape and say "Hey, if we do this, we can stop one of the most explosive players in the nfl". DeSean needs to adjust his game if he wants to keep up because right now if other teams figure out what Dallas did, DeSean is going to have a down year. Jeremy Maclin is a guy who can do everything, he can go deep like DeSean or he can go underneath without worrying about him being snapped. Jeremy Maclin made the Dallas Cowboys his ***** and he was mighty impressive doing it and when you look at their stats, Jeremy had the better rookie season.

Oh yeah 3 catches for 44 yards, 4 catches for 58 yards is ripping it up there. He had one good game and sadly it was more Mike Vick then Maclin running as Vick ran around duping the safeties for a 76 yard play take that out its a good game of 6 catches 70 yards. Like the 04 game where Mcnabb hit Mitchell after scrambling around so take that with a grain of salt. Fluky plays doesn't mean Those are not good numbers but all 3 games are losses so really kinda a moot point. Winning a game and giving up some yards to a teams number 2 receiver isn't getting to be made a ***** in my book.

Really its going to be up to the teams to pick their poison. Any team really can take most receivers out of a game if they adjust their coverages to how they want. What is really going to make or break them is developing a bit more of a running game to get more one on one coverages.

mellojello 04-06-2010 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornsLegend (Post 2108700)
It's not like it was a deep double move downfield on an obvious passing down where Maclin just shook Jenkins out of his shoes so ridiculously.

the way he seperates from defenders, the way he can take a short slant to the house...

Scary thing is, Jackson isn't even as good as he's going to get yet, and when you look at his season last year it's all the more ridiculous.

Thank you. These are the little things I'm talking about, not necessarily things that show up on the stat line. Quite frankly, at times Maclin's double move and route running is below average and doesn't fool anyone, but I don't want to get into bashing Maclin and I have no doubt he will continue to improve. I just want Desean to get the respect he deserves.

Like I said on my first post, put desean on the other side of Austin, and it's just lights out, but my point was more that Austin activates the passing offense and puts pressure on the defense in a manner similar to Desean.

Also, just a little revisionist history, but here are Desean's stats his last year at Cal vs. Lavelle Hawkins, the #2 receiver that year who's now riding pine for the Titans:

Desean: 65 rec. 762 yards, 11.7 average, 6tds.
Hawkins: 72 rec. 872 yards, 12.1 average, 6tds.

Perfect example of why stats don't mean ****. By Desean's 3rd year, he faced double and triple teams like 80-90% of the time. Say what you want about Pete Carrol and USC, but Pete would throw 3 defenders on Desean with a DB, safety, and linebacker and that's how he stopped Desean - it's not fair, but that's football. It's really not rocket science and mark my words, the Cowboys will continue to stop Desean. If the eagles are going to beat Dallas, the offense HAS to come from somewhere else. When you start trying to force balls into that kind coverage, all kinds of bad things start happening, including serious injury.

frubulubu 04-07-2010 12:13 AM

Im glad we have both on this squad, and dont have to make an election. Mac, showed at the end of the season why the Eagles traded to grab him,and Desean, was so good he made it to the pro bowl twice in the same year, lol. The games against the chiefs and Saints, Djax showed he can play underneath and make cathes into yac.

eaglesalltheway 04-07-2010 12:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frubulubu (Post 2109083)
Im glad we have both on this squad, and dont have to make an election. Mac, showed at the end of the season why the Eagles traded to grab him,and Desean, was so good he made it to the pro bowl twice in the same year, lol. The games against the chiefs and Saints, Djax showed he can play underneath and make cathes into yac.

Not the best examples, but DeSean has shown it against other teams as well. Anytime he has space he is a threat.

Flyboy 04-07-2010 12:29 AM

DeSean Jackson all the way to me.


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