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-   -   2010- Best NFC EAST DB (http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=41129)

BaLLiN 05-03-2010 06:24 PM

2010- Best NFC EAST DB
 
Alright, i hope we can all settle our differences and resolve our arguments to be less threatening and ridiculous.

NY+Giants=NYG 05-03-2010 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BaLLiN (Post 2161512)
Alright, i hope we can all settle our differences and resolve our arguments to be less threatening and ridiculous.

C.C. Brown... Next topic please!

BaLLiN 05-03-2010 06:30 PM

its hard to say for me, theres no clear cut winner here.

superman8456 05-03-2010 06:43 PM

Asante Samuel is damn good. Very tough vote, however.

D-Unit 05-03-2010 06:46 PM

You can vote if you want, but Mike Jenkins at the top of the class here.

LonghornsLegend 05-03-2010 06:49 PM

I don't know what to make of the Giants DB's. I've ALWAYS been a big big Aaron Ross fan, but he's battled injuries alot lately, still even with that is he an elite #1 corner? I don't know. Webster was playing like it but did the change to primarily zone hurt him? Roy E did make him look silly a few times and well, Roy sucks and you could count on one hand his good plays all year, a few were on Webster so I don't know.


Love the potential of Terrell Thomas, but I need to see how Ross and Webster bounce back before I say them.


Gotta go with Jenkins, his improvement was just collossal from rookie to sophmore year and he may still get better. Now before anyone breaks out the annointing oil he has to keep it up and/or continually get better. People wanted to make Antonio Cromartie a top 5-10 corner way too fast among other guys.


I really liked him before the draft though and he looked and played the part of a stud #1 CB, he improved his coverage quite a bit and his aggressiveness even more. What I like about him is he's physical, loves to get his hands on the Wr, has great coverage but he has that rare ability to turn and make a play on the ball in the air at it's highest point.


This is something that Terrance Newman couldn't even really do in his prime even when he was providing great coverage, that's a talent I love to have out of my DB.


I have to roll with Jenkins until he shows me he falls off, and I see how some of those Giants DB's bounce back.


p.s. Terrance Newman sucks ass

Malaka 05-03-2010 07:07 PM

I think its Corey Webster but if we run a more zone cover scheme he won't be for much longer.

LonghornsLegend 05-03-2010 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malaka (Post 2161573)
I think its Corey Webster but if we run a more zone cover scheme he won't be for much longer.

I guess that's why you guys were hoping Fewell wasn't running a cover 2 scheme. Webster is a man cover guy, hell if we put Jenkins in primarily a zone scheme his play would drop off some too. The best guys can do both, but I think every DB has one they excell in more then others.

TACKLE 05-03-2010 07:13 PM

Where is my boy Kenny Phillips at in the poll? I can confidently say that he is the best safety in the division and is in contention for best DB.

Sniper 05-03-2010 07:16 PM

Mike Jenkins- not particularily close.

BaLLiN 05-03-2010 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TACKLE (Post 2161579)
Where is my boy Kenny Phillips at in the poll? I can confidently say that he is the best safety in the division and is in contention for best DB.

theres no way of telling how he'll be this year, plus the drafting of Chad Jones and signing of Deon Grant aren't exactly good signs.

Sniper 05-03-2010 07:26 PM

Also, how long is it going to take before people learn that it's Asante Samuel, not Samuels?

BaLLiN 05-03-2010 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornsLegend (Post 2161549)
I don't know what to make of the Giants DB's. I've ALWAYS been a big big Aaron Ross fan, but he's battled injuries alot lately, still even with that is he an elite #1 corner? I don't know. Webster was playing like it but did the change to primarily zone hurt him? Roy E did make him look silly a few times and well, Roy sucks and you could count on one hand his good plays all year, a few were on Webster so I don't know.

Yeah i hope/believe that Ross will bounce back. He has everything necessary to be a good #2 corner against a possession receiver. Yes, he's a little stiff in the hips, but when he wasn't injured he was a ballhawk. I hope he bulked up a little, because he's never been that big and it has clearly hurt him in taking on those possession receivers.

Webster isn't too great at taking on bigger WR's that can run, not many corners are. But he is god awful in zone, when Lewis was our DC, Webster might as well have been on the practice squad. I honestly don't know how he does what he does, it must have alot to do with football smarts, because he's not particularly fast or agile.

Quote:

Love the potential of Terrell Thomas, but I need to see how Ross and Webster bounce back before I say them.
I am weary of Thomas, i like him but i don't like how he takes chances on balls and tries to freelance. Other than that, he is a pretty good all around corner, despite not having the height of Ross or Webster.

Quote:

Gotta go with Jenkins, his improvement was just collossal from rookie to sophmore year and he may still get better. Now before anyone breaks out the annointing oil he has to keep it up and/or continually get better. People wanted to make Antonio Cromartie a top 5-10 corner way too fast among other guys
yeah this is why i can't decide, is it the fact that teams could go after Newman and Jenkins capitalized on 2nd reads? or is he really good? Does he just suck at covering Jeremy Maclin? :D


Quote:

p.s. Terrance Newman sucks ass
agreed, just wanted to weed out the dilusional.

BaLLiN 05-03-2010 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sniper (Post 2161596)
Also, how long is it going to take before people learn that it's Asante Samuel, not Samuels?

haha my bad. i actually had samuel before but asante samuel didn't sound right to me.

scottyboy 05-03-2010 08:47 PM

if healthy, i fully believe it'll be KP. i freakin' love him. but from these...meh, not sure. probably samuel. maybe.

bigbluedefense 05-03-2010 08:47 PM

It's Mike Jenkins. He really came on mid way through last season. He's a beast.

Corey Webster is #2 right now. If we go to a zone scheme, we're screwed though, Web is horrible in zone.

Our entire secondary is built for man coverage, so it wouldn't just be Corey who gets screwed in that situation.


I loved Jenkins coming out. That draft, I loved Jenkins, DMC, Cason, and Phillips for the Giants. I wanted us to move up to nab Jenkins. Then after Dallas got him, I wanted Cason to fall to us. After he was gone, KP was a nice consolation prize (although maybe not if his career is over).

But yeah, love Jenkins. Beast. He has it all, the size, the speed, the technique, the ball skills, the versatility, he's got everything.

bigbluedefense 05-03-2010 08:49 PM

Asante is the most overrated CB in our division. He's a horrible tackler, he constantly misses his assignment, and he gets toasted for big plays on many occasions.

He sprinkles in some picks here and there bc he's constantly breaking off his assignment to gamble on picks. He always needs safety help bc of this. He's a glorified Tampa 2 CB. He's asked to play press man and doesn't do it, bc he likes playing off coverage so he can read the qb and jump routes. Even after his teammates (Mikell) and coaches call him out, he still doesn't listen.

He's not anywhere near the best. Jenkins, Webster, and Terrell Thomas are all better than him.


And as for KP, he's the best in the division IF he recovers from his knee. Thats a big if though, and from the looks of things, the Giants aren't very confident in that happening. We sign Rolle to a huge contract, and draft Jones in the 3rd round. Plus Reese always says that KP's injury is difficult to overcome. So all of that points to signs that he's never going to be the same.

scottyboy 05-03-2010 08:56 PM

yea, i refuse to choose a USF AND Dallas player, and didn't wanna go all out homer with TT or C-Web. i fully believe in KP. god he's an animal

LonghornsLegend 05-03-2010 08:57 PM

Who is Philly's other starting corner this year? I thought they would address it alot sooner, and also thought they could sit tight, keep those extra 3rds and take Kyle Wilson since Marlin Jackson at FS is probably better then their CB options.


I can see that being a rough year for them, I still like Samuel, but as you said BBD he needs to be primarily in zone, nothing but it. His instincts are still great, I won't short change him, but for his ****** tackling and how often he gets beats it's a catch-22. I've seen him get beat deep on so many double moves it's not even funny.


It's cool when he is playing a short zone, and has safety help, but even if he knows he's the last option he still bites on the short stuff. NE did a great job of disguising his weaknesses and putting him in situations that played to his strengths, too many times in Philly he's asked to do things he doesn't do very well.


If you can put him opposite a CB who can shadow his WR man to man, or in a Cover 2 straight up and down, he could look like one of the best CB's in the league coverage wise. Ronde Barber will go down as a very great CB no doubt about it and made countless pro bowls, if he wasn't in a Tampa 2 scheme for his career you can easily question how good he would have looked some of those years.

FreshBoy! 05-03-2010 08:59 PM

It's Jenkins.....but I'm a huge Aaron Ross Fan, and I believe if he can just stay healthy he'll be a great CB. That's just hoping right now though. Same with KP. I REALLY liked Ny's secondary, and thought it had the ability to be one of the best in the league.

Newman has fallen from grace so far it's ridiculous. Although I don't think he's a "bad" cb...he's awfully average.

LonghornsLegend 05-03-2010 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottyboy (Post 2161723)
yea, i refuse to choose a USF AND Dallas player, and didn't wanna go all out homer with TT or C-Web. i fully believe in KP. god he's an animal

Lol that's just a bit too much eh :D



I'm a huge Phillips fan though and hated to hear about his injury. I was one of the few in the Cowboys forums that season that stated how bad our safeties were sucking and that we needed to draft Phillips with that late 2nd. I was still saying we should have until the most recent injury he suffered.


Mike Jenkins/K Phillips/J. Charles would of been a great start to that draft for us, but I was hoping we have a hard look at Phillips and Devin Thomas at the 28 spot. Phillips is a man child though, just tough to rank safeties and CB's together. He's a player though.

D-Unit 05-03-2010 09:00 PM

I don't think Safeties should be considered in this thread. It's a completely different position. Plus, I'm sure you all would love to see a vote on how the Dallas safeties are the worst in the division. :p

LonghornsLegend 05-03-2010 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FreshBoy! (Post 2161727)
It's Jenkins.....but I'm a huge Aaron Ross Fan, and I believe if he can just stay healthy he'll be a great CB. That's just hoping right now though.

Newman has fallen from grace so far it's ridiculous. ALthough I don't think he's a "bad" cb...he's awfully average.


Ross isn't, and never really was that 'lockdown CB' type of DB. He just has a knack for the football and amazing ball skills, he always knows where the ball is and how to find it, create turnovers, all of the above. A guy I'd love to have as a #2, you just can't ask him to shut down #1 WR's week in and out, but he'll go and get the ball for you though.


Needs to shake the injury bug and hopefully the experiment of moving him to safety is over now.

scottyboy 05-03-2010 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornsLegend (Post 2161728)
Lol that's just a bit too much eh :D



I'm a huge Phillips fan though and hated to hear about his injury. I was one of the few in the Cowboys forums that season that stated how bad our safeties were sucking and that we needed to draft Phillips with that late 2nd. I was still saying we should have until the most recent injury he suffered.


Mike Jenkins/K Phillips/J. Charles would of been a great start to that draft for us, but I was hoping we have a hard look at Phillips and Devin Thomas at the 28 spot. Phillips is a man child though, just tough to rank safeties and CB's together. He's a player though.

agreed about safeties and CB's together. maybe should've been seperated.

and yea...I mean, a cowboys AND from USF? I mean, you put a gun to my head saying best CB in the division...well, you'd have a dead scotty.

bigbluedefense 05-03-2010 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornsLegend (Post 2161725)
Who is Philly's other starting corner this year? I thought they would address it alot sooner, and also thought they could sit tight, keep those extra 3rds and take Kyle Wilson since Marlin Jackson at FS is probably better then their CB options.


I can see that being a rough year for them, I still like Samuel, but as you said BBD he needs to be primarily in zone, nothing but it. His instincts are still great, I won't short change him, but for his ****** tackling and how often he gets beats it's a catch-22. I've seen him get beat deep on so many double moves it's not even funny.


It's cool when he is playing a short zone, and has safety help, but even if he knows he's the last option he still bites on the short stuff. NE did a great job of disguising his weaknesses and putting him in situations that played to his strengths, too many times in Philly he's asked to do things he doesn't do very well.


If you can put him opposite a CB who can shadow his WR man to man, or in a Cover 2 straight up and down, he could look like one of the best CB's in the league coverage wise. Ronde Barber will go down as a very great CB no doubt about it and made countless pro bowls, if he wasn't in a Tampa 2 scheme for his career you can easily question how good he would have looked some of those years.

Thats why Sheldon Brown was such a great player to match with Samuel. Bc with all the zone blitz they do, and with Sheldon covering the best option in man all game, that allowed Samuel to do what he does and get the proper safety help up top that he needed.

I thought they were gonna stand pat and nab Kareem Jackson or Kyle Wilson, 2 CBs I absolutely loved in this draft. Can't knock em for Brandon Graham though, I LOVE Graham.

But yeah, Samuel and Ellis Hobbs as their 1 and 2, with Hanson as their 3. The Giants and Cowboys are going to dick down that secondary like never before.

This is the first time in awhile that Philly has a poor secondary.


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