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-   -   Lane Kiffin The Worst Talent Evaluator Ever! (http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=48859)

shylo3716 10-02-2011 11:57 AM

Lane Kiffin The Worst Talent Evaluator Ever!
 


This guy here appears to "know" everything about evaluating talent, but in all acutality he does not know jack ****!

Kiffin has not did it once, but twice make a recruit stray away from his commitment due to him being stuck in his ways, not giving the recruit a shot for the position they are inquiring about.



First it was Tajh Boyd a recruit out of Hampton, VA who at the time was ranked the #4 QB in the Nation by Scout.com. In 2009 during Boyd's recruitment process heading into Tennessee, where Kiffin would be the first year coach. Kiffin reportedly told Boyd that he would not fit into his Pro-style offense and that he should look elsewhere, unless he would be willing to make a positional switch. Boyd had showed flashes of what would be in store for Kiffin at the US Army All-American Game by snatching up the MVP trophy, but from the outcome of the recruiting class in February it was not good enough.

As of right now Boyd is doing Great, leading his Clemson Tigers to a 4-0 record over 4 straight ranked opponents in his first year as a starter. Boyd is currently in a foot-race to lead his team to a first ever ACC title under Dabo Swinney since 1988.



Now in 2011, Kiffin really went over the top by missing out on the biggest recruit that would have stepped foot on campus for him at USC, in DeAnthony Thomas. Everyone is very well aware of the Black Mamba and how much of a threat he is at all 5 positions he has played throughout his HS career. DeAnthony Thomas was ranked the #1 ATH by Scout.com.

During Thomas' whole recruiting process he made it known that he wanted to play RB, which should not have been a problem. Kiffin being Kiffin, decided on that once he landed Thomas in the recruitment he would keep him at CB. Since Kiffin denied him the opportunity to play RB, Thomas decommitted to sign a LOI with the University of Oregon, where Head Coach Chip Kelly made the promise of him being able to get looks at RB.

The whole irony of Kiffin missing out on Thomas is that, he has recently put it out that he is now converting his #1 Receiving recruit George Farmer to RB next season. The sad part about Thomas' situation is that USC was a dream school for him, because he is a hometown kid from Los Angeles.

There was no purpose in Kiffin running off Thomas if he needed a RB, so that goes into play of why I said he is the worst talent evaluator on the collegiate level right now.

mqtirishfan 10-02-2011 09:37 PM

Well, I'm convinced...

SickwithIt1010 10-02-2011 09:48 PM

Youre off your ****** rocker man.

The guy has been one of the best recruiters in the country since he got into the game. He is one of the BEST talent evaluators in the country and to say anything different is ridiculous. Taj Boyd isnt the best fit for a pro style system so how was he wrong there? Look at the QB's that have played in Kiffen's systems Palmer, Leinart, Sanchez, Booty, Barkley...Boyd cant sniff those guys' jocks as far as pocket passers. I love Boyd but he is more suited for a system that will utilize his strengths and that is not a traditional drop back passing system. His system at Clemson is much more QB friendly than the one at USC, Barkley is asked to make a helluva lot tougher reads than Boyd is.

The black mamba is a case you obviously know nothing about. Kiffen and his staff wanted him to start his career at SC as a corner pitching to him they felt he was an elite talent at the position and that he would start there as a freshman, eventually becoming a possibly top 10 pick. They ALSO pitched the idea of letting him play both ways. The guy is not big enough to be a elite talent in the NFL as a RB so idk why he was so set on the idea of playing offense....USC was doing him a favor. Sure, it hurt losing Thomas but it didnt hurt me as much as it did when we lose guys like Burfict and Teo...even Alshonn.

Farmer is a better talent than Thomas. They will get him on the field at as many positions as possible. He will be the type of player you saw in Percy Harvin at Florida...he will line up everywhere. He played quite a bit of running back while he was in high school.

CashmoneyDrew 10-03-2011 01:42 AM

You can make an argument for Kiffin being a poor talent evaluator recently, but you're doing it wrong. AND CAPITALIZING SENTENCES DOESN'T MAKE YOUR POINTS ANY MORE IMPORTANT OR CORRECT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

BRAVEHEART 10-03-2011 03:59 AM

You're reaching, dude.


Without turning defensive (or homer'ish), I'll jump into this right quick.


1. Kiffin didn't think Boyd was a good fit for his Pro-Style offense (and maybe, just maybe Kiffin had other QB's higher on his big board). As of right now Boyd has played good in Chad Morris' Spread offense. With that being said, is Chad Morris' Spread offense the same as Lane's Pro-Style offense? I'll let you think about that.

2. As far as eveluating talent at the QB posistion, he was the first BCS coach to jump on this lanky unknown guy from Fresno who was currently committed to San Diego State.



If Bray and Boyd declared for the draft next year, who do you think is going higher, and who do you think has more "talent" (Food for thought)?


3. As for the Green Mamba, he chose to go to a school that would utilize him the best. It had nothing to do with him being a CB at USC. During the second half of his recruitment, Kiffin told DeAnthony that corner back would be his best shot at succeeding in the NFL (which is true), and DeAnthony responded positively to those words, and started working at CB in camps that year. Lane was never set on DeAnthony playing CB, and wanted him primarily on offense & special teams. Remember, DeAnthony got his scholarship as a RB. Monte Kiffin on the other hand wanted DeAnthony as a CB in his tampa 2, but he's the D-coord., so you can understand why.

Yes, DeAnthony's dream was to play at USC, but he had another dream of winning the Heisman. Oregon uses runningbacks in DeAnthony's mold better than anybody else in the country. At Oregon he has a legit chance of one day winning the Heisman. Couple that with the fact that he wanted to get away from LA (but not too far), and that he really likes that free, cutting edge, exclusive Nike gear....and we got a no-brainer.

YAYareaRB 10-03-2011 01:02 PM

LSU wanted Marshall Faulk to play cornerback..

ElectricEye 10-03-2011 01:27 PM

Bray is better than Boyd by miles and miles. Not close at all.

shylo3716 10-03-2011 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SickwithIt1010 (Post 2698807)
Youre off your ****** rocker man.

I love Boyd but he is more suited for a system that will utilize his strengths and that is not a traditional drop back passing system. His system at Clemson is much more QB friendly than the one at USC, Barkley is asked to make a helluva lot tougher reads than Boyd is.

The black mamba is a case you obviously know nothing about. Kiffen and his staff wanted him to start his career at SC as a corner pitching to him they felt he was an elite talent at the position and that he would start there as a freshman, eventually becoming a possibly top 10 pick. They ALSO pitched the idea of letting him play both ways. The guy is not big enough to be a elite talent in the NFL as a RB so idk why he was so set on the idea of playing offense....USC was doing him a favor. Sure, it hurt losing Thomas but it didnt hurt me as much as it did when we lose guys like Burfict and Teo...even Alshonn.

Farmer is a better talent than Thomas. They will get him on the field at as many positions as possible. He will be the type of player you saw in Percy Harvin at Florida...he will line up everywhere. He played quite a bit of running back while he was in high school.

If Boyd cannot play in a Pro-style offense, when it comes time for him to become Draft eligible which NFL system will fit him?

One can make a case about Robert Griffin III that he is "not" a Pro-style QB, but hell right now he is in discussions of a 1st Round pick come April.

I really don't know much about Farmer, but it has to speak volumes if you're saying he is a better talent than the #1 ATH prospect in the country.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BRAVEHEART (Post 2699226)
You're reaching, dude.




2. As far as eveluating talent at the QB posistion, he was the first BCS coach to jump on this lanky unknown guy from Fresno who was currently committed to San Diego State.



If Bray and Boyd declared for the draft next year, who do you think is going higher, and who do you think has more "talent" (Food for thought)?


3. As for the Green Mamba, he chose to go to a school that would utilize him the best. It had nothing to do with him being a CB at USC. During the second half of his recruitment, Kiffin told DeAnthony that corner back would be his best shot at succeeding in the NFL (which is true), and DeAnthony responded positively to those words, and started working at CB in camps that year. Lane was never set on DeAnthony playing CB, and wanted him primarily on offense & special teams. Remember, DeAnthony got his scholarship as a RB. Monte Kiffin on the other hand wanted DeAnthony as a CB in his tampa 2, but he's the D-coord., so you can understand why.

Yes, DeAnthony's dream was to play at USC, but he had another dream of winning the Heisman. Oregon uses runningbacks in DeAnthony's mold better than anybody else in the country. At Oregon he has a legit chance of one day winning the Heisman. Couple that with the fact that he wanted to get away from LA (but not too far), and that he really likes that free, cutting edge, exclusive Nike gear....and we got a no-brainer.

You totally missed what I had to say about Boyd, not about who would be the better pro prospect between he and Bray. If Boyd continues to play the way he is the next 2 seasons, he also will be in discussions as a Top QB prospect heading into his draft class. The main point I'm trying to bring up is who is to say he would be a NFL prospect if he made a position switch for Kiffin, to my knowledge Boyd had not played any other position in his HS career.

As far as Mamba, I can understand CB would be the best route to go as a college prospect. The one thing I do not understand is if he plays offense his whole college career, come Draft time what will he be projected as? It's not like he will go in as a CB, because he would have missed 3-4 years of learning schemes etc.

shylo3716 10-03-2011 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CashmoneyDrew (Post 2699186)
You can make an argument for Kiffin being a poor talent evaluator recently, but you're doing it wrong. AND CAPITALIZING SENTENCES DOESN'T MAKE YOUR POINTS ANY MORE IMPORTANT OR CORRECT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

WTF are you talking about O_o

SickwithIt1010 10-03-2011 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shylo3716 (Post 2699804)
If Boyd cannot play in a Pro-style offense, when it comes time for him to become Draft eligible which NFL system will fit him?

One can make a case about Robert Griffin III that he is "not" a Pro-style QB, but hell right now he is in discussions of a 1st Round pick come April.

I really don't know much about Farmer, but it has to speak volumes if you're saying he is a better talent than the #1 ATH prospect in the country.

He probably doesnt fit in that great as far as the scouts opinions. Sure he will get drafted but he wont be a high draft pick because just doesnt have the the height and the intangibles you look for in a QB. He will be a project that they will have to transform.

RG3 is the same way, the difference between him and Boyd is that he has a lot more of the intangibles you look for. Hes a helluva lot more accurate than Boyd, hes bigger than Boyd, hes faster than Boyd, he has a better arm than Boyd....hes just flat out better than Boyd....thats why hes getting early 1st round looks through the first 4 weeks of the season lol.

Farmer is a better all around talent than the Mamba.

shylo3716 10-03-2011 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SickwithIt1010 (Post 2699999)
He probably doesnt fit in that great as far as the scouts opinions. Sure he will get drafted but he wont be a high draft pick because just doesnt have the the height and the intangibles you look for in a QB. He will be a project that they will have to transform.

RG3 is the same way, the difference between him and Boyd is that he has a lot more of the intangibles you look for. Hes a helluva lot more accurate than Boyd, hes bigger than Boyd, hes faster than Boyd, he has a better arm than Boyd....hes just flat out better than Boyd....thats why hes getting early 1st round looks through the first 4 weeks of the season lol.

Farmer is a better all around talent than the Mamba.

But which offensive systems fit Boyd NFL-wise?

That's what I want to know.

CashmoneyDrew 10-03-2011 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shylo3716 (Post 2699816)
WTF are you talking about O_o

Your thread title as well as just about every other one of your recent posts.

shylo3716 10-03-2011 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CashmoneyDrew (Post 2700037)
Your thread title as well as just about every other one of your recent posts.

You got it dude!

BRAVEHEART 10-03-2011 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shylo3716 (Post 2699804)
If Boyd cannot play in a Pro-style offense, when it comes time for him to become Draft eligible which NFL system will fit him?

One can make a case about Robert Griffin III that he is "not" a Pro-style QB, but hell right now he is in discussions of a 1st Round pick come April.

I really don't know much about Farmer, but it has to speak volumes if you're saying he is a better talent than the #1 ATH prospect in the country.



You totally missed what I had to say about Boyd, not about who would be the better pro prospect between he and Bray. If Boyd continues to play the way he is the next 2 seasons, he also will be in discussions as a Top QB prospect heading into his draft class. The main point I'm trying to bring up is who is to say he would be a NFL prospect if he made a position switch for Kiffin, to my knowledge Boyd had not played any other position in his HS career.

As far as Mamba, I can understand CB would be the best route to go as a college prospect. The one thing I do not understand is if he plays offense his whole college career, come Draft time what will he be projected as? It's not like he will go in as a CB, because he would have missed 3-4 years of learning schemes etc.

No, actually I didn't. You said Kiffin can't evaluate talent, and your reasoning was that he turned down Tahj Boyd (who is playing well in an offense different from Lane Kiffin's). I brought up Bray to counter your notion that Kiffin can't evaluate talent. Bray was a recruit who wasn't as heralded as Boyd, but was a prospect Kiffin did want, and I (and the majority on this site) think Bray is plenty talented.

I don't understand where you're trying to go with your DeAnthony Thomas argument. You were all kinds of wrong on your intial post.....


Quote:

Everyone is very well aware of the Black Mamba and how much of a threat he is at all 5 positions he has played throughout his HS career
Umm, no...He played Running Back & Safety at Crenshaw. That's 2 posistions.



Quote:

During Thomas' whole recruiting process he made it known that he wanted to play RB, which should not have been a problem. Kiffin being Kiffin, decided on that once he landed Thomas in the recruitment he would keep him at CB. Since Kiffin denied him the opportunity to play RB, Thomas decommitted to sign a LOI with the University of Oregon, where Head Coach Chip Kelly made the promise of him being able to get looks at RB.
First off, where did you even get this? Nevermind, I'd be ok if you just said you made this up, or came to the assumption that this must've happened based off the minimal research you did on the subject at hand. There is not one quote where Kiffin says, "I want DeAnthony Thomas to play CB", or "DeAnthony Thomas will play CB at USC". He never came close to saying that. Lane Kiffin always wanted him at RB despite his size, but never ruled out CB because he'd be able to go into the draft higher as a 5-8 180 CB opposed to a 5-8 180 RB. DeAnthony realized this aswell and started working out as a CB at camps that year (because he never played CB in HS), and he would play CB in the Army All American game where he looked impressive.

After that game DeAnthony started bringing up that he wanted to win the Heisman (being a AAA was one of his childhood dreams aswell). Who was the Heisman hopeful at RB that year (take a wild guess). If you didn't get it by now, it was LaMichael James, somebody that DeAnthony compares favorably to. When has USC had 5-8 180 RB that was in the discussion for heisman? Oregon fit DeAnthony better, and it didn't hurt that he wanted to get away from the local pressure that has been with him his whole HS career. It was a tough decision, but it was the right decision for him and his dreams.

One last thing, George Farmer IV playing RB has nothing to do with DeAnthony, and more to do with Marqise Lee. While DeAnthony is (and still is) the better football player, GFIV is by far the superior talent.



Yes, that is all 6'2 205 of George Farmer.

CashmoneyDrew 10-03-2011 09:10 PM

In fairness, Kiffin did miss on about 8 other QB recruits before he really started to pursue Bray.

shylo3716 10-03-2011 09:29 PM

So is Mamba a NFL RB, WR, or CB?

I am verry confused as of right now especially since he is undersized for RB in the NFL. Again it would be hard to evaluate him as a CB from a scouts perspective, because he will not play defense at all in college whereas he would not know any schemes etc that he would have picked up on.

BRAVEHEART 10-03-2011 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CashmoneyDrew (Post 2700098)
In fairness, Kiffin did miss on about 8 other QB recruits before he really started to pursue Bray.

Heaps, Scroggins, Rettig (that's about 3...Drew). With that being said, he got on him before he showed out at the elite 11 (before he was exposed to the national media).

CashmoneyDrew 10-03-2011 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BRAVEHEART (Post 2700143)
Heaps, Scroggins, Rettig (that's about 3...Drew). With that being said, he got on him before he showed out at the elite 11 (before he was exposed to the national media).

Blake Bell, Phillip Sims and Andrew Hendrix as well.

ElectricEye 10-03-2011 09:38 PM

He's better off without Chase Rettig right now. Rettig has talent and I want him to be good...but he just isn't. Of course, an actual coaching staff would probably help.

BRAVEHEART 10-03-2011 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shylo3716 (Post 2700140)
So is Mamba a NFL RB, WR, or CB?

I am verry confused as of right now especially since he is undersized for RB in the NFL. Again it would be hard to evaluate him as a CB from a scouts perspective, because he will not play defense at all in college whereas he would not know any schemes etc that he would have picked up on.

Well, he plays RB, so obviously he's a RB in the NFL. His ceiling is probably either Sproles, McCluster, or whatever LaMichael turns out to be at the next level. If he played CB, his ceiling would be Antoine Winfield.

BRAVEHEART 10-03-2011 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CashmoneyDrew (Post 2700148)
Blake Bell, Phillip Sims and Andrew Hendrix as well.


wogitalia 10-04-2011 12:41 AM

Quote:

When has USC had 5-8 180 RB that was in the discussion for heisman?
Not to diminish your arguement because I pretty much agree with you... but Reggie Bush was basically that size and he won a heisman(well sort of). So USC has used undersized scat back types before with success.

Still... the whole OP post is just flawed and wrong on so many levels. Kiffin has actually proven to be a pretty good judge of talent if you asked me.

BRAVEHEART 10-04-2011 01:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wogitalia (Post 2700404)
Not to diminish your arguement because I pretty much agree with you... but Reggie Bush was basically that size and he won a heisman(well sort of). So USC has used undersized scat back types before with success.Still... the whole OP post is just flawed and wrong on so many levels. Kiffin has actually proven to be a pretty good judge of talent if you asked me.

Hmmm, not really, not to the extent of Oregon anyway. as for the Reggie Bush comparison, didn't he measure 5'11" 201 at the combine (he's always been a well put together running back, not as small as he plays sometimes)? DeAnthony Thomas will be lucky to measure 5'8" 180 when he's done at Oregon. DeAnthony is a really small guy (he might not even be 5'8").

I'm not Saying he wouldn't have success at USC as a RB, he'd just have way more success playing in Oregon's offense which is taylor made for a running back like him.

shylo3716 10-04-2011 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shylo3716 (Post 2696645)
Everyone is very well aware of the Black Mamba and how much of a threat he is at all 5 positions he has played throughout his HS career.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BRAVEHEART (Post 2700080)
Umm, no...He played Running Back & Safety at Crenshaw. That's 2 posistions. DeAnthony realized this aswell and started working out as a CB at camps that year (because he never played CB in HS), and he would play CB in the Army All American game where he looked impressive.

5 like I said, according to Mamba which was said by him in the same exact Army All-American game where you just said he looked impressive. I have the game recorded so I remember it quite well.

Punisher 10-04-2011 08:43 PM

Well living in California I can tell you Mamba played 2 positions in highschool: CB and RB.

Besides that, why are you still trying to make a point in your favor? Lane didn't lose DT based on evaluating. Your thread was a careless act of 2 instances where you clearly have no direct knowledge of.

PS, cool it on the thread making. It makes it harder for daily readers like me to navigate through this forum.


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