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-   -   Burfict or Kuechly? (http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=50373)

JBCX 01-03-2012 11:15 AM

Burfict or Kuechly?
 
If you are an NFL team playing a 4-3 defense in desperate need of a MLB, and you have the opportunity to draft Luke Kuechly of Boston College or Vontaze Burfict of Arizona State in the first round of the draft, which do you pick?

Kuechly seems to have flawless instincts and form tackling fundamentals, but he is probably an average athlete at best.

Burfict is a physical specimen with unlimited upside but displays less than sound fundamentals as well as a lack of discipline on the field.

Or do you pass on both and in some other direction? If so, please elaborate (i.e. go for a 2nd/3rd round LBer such as a Bobby Wagner or Donta Hightower type, or just sign a guy in free agency)

bucfan12 01-03-2012 11:17 AM

Pass on either. Kuechly has good instincts but reminds me too much of Barrett Ruud.

Burfict has the ESPN highlight of big hits, but misses tackles because he goes for them. Is undisciplined and lacks fundementals.

K Train 01-03-2012 11:54 AM

43 im taking kuechly hands down

im in love with taze if im running a 34 though, all the knocks on him are overblown the dude is going to be a monster

FUNBUNCHER 01-03-2012 11:56 AM

The thing is, Kuechly's instincts are beyond rare for the position.

From the neck up, he and Barrett Rudd aren't from the same planet.

It's one thing to have good instincts.
Keuchly has the football version of ESP.

Keuchly is the one prospect whose career I'm most excited about watching develop in the pros.

descendency 01-03-2012 12:11 PM

Kuechly is too small to play 34 ILB and too slow to play 43 LB if he puts any weight on.

Burfict can clearly play in the NFL, but his 4-5 15 yard personal foul penalties he will get playing as aggressive as he does will probably hurt a team just as much as Kuechly's lack of speed.

I'd rather have Burfict, because there is a chance he grows up. Kuechly isn't going to all of the sudden get more athletic.

Sloopy 01-03-2012 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by descendency (Post 2809953)
Kuechly is too small to play 34 ILB and too slow to play 43 LB if he puts any weight on.

Burfict can clearly play in the NFL, but his 4-5 15 yard personal foul penalties he will get playing as aggressive as he does will probably hurt a team just as much as Kuechly's lack of speed.

I'd rather have Burfict, because there is a chance he grows up. Kuechly isn't going to all of the sudden get more athletic.

I'd take Kuechly as a 3-4 ILB before I would take him as a 4-3 ILB, maybe not a thumper type but I wouldn't mind seeing him in a Ravens uniform.

I really can't pick between the two but I chose Taze for the upside

Overall I really can't help but gush over both of them. Neither are really a 4-3 ILB, I might put Kuechly as a OLB in a 4-3 and an ILB in the 3-4 with Taze playing 4-3 ILB pretty exclusively. Although, of the two, Taze would probably be the better 4-3 ILB

SickwithIt1010 01-03-2012 12:50 PM

Kuechly's best fit is as a 4-3 Mike so I dont know where you're getting the "hes better as a 3-4 inside". Kuechly is a tackling maching, as an eagle fan I'm in a situation where I'm looking at all the linebackers and Kuechly is as close to a sure thing as there is. The guy was 2nd in the nation in tackles as a freshman and lead the country the last 2 years. He just has a nose for the ball, but I dont see the huge upside there is in Taze. It's a tough call, but for me right now I would go for Kuechly, not a super high ceiling but the high floor is what would sell me.

Sloopy 01-03-2012 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SickwithIt1010 (Post 2810012)
Kuechly's best fit is as a 4-3 Mike so I dont know where you're getting the "hes better as a 3-4 inside". Kuechly is a tackling maching, as an eagle fan I'm in a situation where I'm looking at all the linebackers and Kuechly is as close to a sure thing as there is. The guy was 2nd in the nation in tackles as a freshman and lead the country the last 2 years. He just has a nose for the ball, but I dont see the huge upside there is in Taze. It's a tough call, but for me right now I would go for Kuechly, not a super high ceiling but the high floor is what would sell me.

I just feel like he would be better off as an OLB in the 4-3. To be honest he is pretty versatile but I really see him excelling in a 3-4 ILB role. To say he is to small to do so is ridiculous.

I agree he is pretty much a lock to the Eagles though; regardless of whether he plays inside, outside, whatever.

ElectricEye 01-03-2012 01:22 PM

As much as I like Keuchly, I'm not quite so sure that he's an All-World player in the NFL the same way he is in at BC. I think people are underrating what kind of athlete he is as well as his strength, but I don't see a guy who is much more than a Jerod Mayo type in the NFL(although he could still be better).

Burfict plays the game with passion and violence, which is both his greatest strength and biggest weakness. I think he's got the potential to be an impact linebacker in the NFL(which is becoming rarer and rarer with the way offenses work these days), but I'm not sure how safe it is to take him. Clearly, you'll be taking some of the good with the bad with him no matter what...but he didn't exactly have an exceptional year taking the personal fouls and penalties out of the equation too.

So in the end, I would have to go with Keuchly. I don't think he has as much value in the 3-4 though, so you have to take that into the equation when asking this question.

the_dark_knight 01-03-2012 03:38 PM

I am in the minority here, but I'm taking Burfict. It's not because he's the best right now, he's only at the beginning of his potential. That's why I want him. Is it a risk that he may continue to over pursue and just flat out lose gap control, yes, but it's a risk that I'd be willing to take for a talent like him.

If coached up properly, and his work ethic matches or exceeds that mandated by the coaching staff, then you've got a guy with an exceptionally rare skill set to be a truly game changing MLB. Not only can he stuff the run, but he can get after the QB on blitzes, and he can cover more than adequate for a MLB.

Right now he's raw, and if I was picking first overall and was forced to pick between the two, I'd prolly have to go the other way cause you need that sure thing. But Burfict is exciting to watch and can be that emotional leader to be the "next" Ray Lewis. I hate saying it that way, but I'm not sure how else to phrase it. I really like his potential.

Rosebud 01-03-2012 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER (Post 2809937)
The thing is, Kuechly's instincts are beyond rare for the position.

From the neck up, he and Barrett Rudd aren't from the same planet.

It's one thing to have good instincts.
Keuchly has the football version of ESP.

Keuchly is the one prospect whose career I'm most excited about watching develop in the pros.

This sounds a lot like what I was saying about AJ Hawk when he came out.

holt_bruce81 01-04-2012 12:06 AM

Kuechly, hands down IMO.

Better tackler, better leader, smarter, better instincts.

PossibleCabbage 01-04-2012 12:11 AM

I'm not in love with either player as a first round prospect. Put a gun to my head and I say Kuechly, but unless MLB is my only need, I'm looking around to see who else is there.

holt_bruce81 01-04-2012 12:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PossibleCabbage (Post 2810860)
I'm not in love with either player as a first round prospect. Put a gun to my head and I say Kuechly, but unless MLB is my only need, I'm looking around to see who else is there.

Burfict shouldn't go in the first round, the only reason he does IMO is because he's got a crapload of potential.

But he would get a 3rd round grade from me.

I Think Kuechly goes anywhere from 20-35. And IMO the only reason he doesn't go higher is because he's not a great athlete.

CDCB14 01-04-2012 12:24 AM

Since they are pretty much clones, who was a better prospect, Sean Lee or Keuchly?

PossibleCabbage 01-04-2012 12:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by holt_bruce81 (Post 2810867)
Burfict shouldn't go in the first round, the only reason he does IMO is because he's got a crapload of potential.

But he would get a 3rd round grade from me.

I think I'd be comfortable slotting him around where Maualuga went. Maybe a little lower, they both make similar kinds of mental mistakes, it's just that Burfict is much more prone to getting penalized.

Quote:

Originally Posted by holt_bruce81 (Post 2810867)
I Think Kuechly goes anywhere from 20-35. And IMO the only reason he doesn't go higher is because he's not a great athlete.

I'm just really leery of Kuechly since he seems to fall into that "safest player in the draft" mold that has doomed such once-promising prospects as A.J. Hawk and Aaron Curry. I'm not sure if either of those guys merit a 20-35 pick, in retrospect.

CDCB14 01-04-2012 12:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PossibleCabbage (Post 2810871)
I think I'd be comfortable slotting him around where Maualuga went. Maybe a little lower, they both make similar kinds of mental mistakes, it's just that Burfict is much more prone to getting penalized.



I'm just really leery of Kuechly since he seems to fall into that "safest player in the draft" mold that has doomed such once-promising prospects as A.J. Hawk and Aaron Curry. I'm not sure if either of those guys merit a 20-35 pick, in retrospect.

Hawk and Curry present what you want our of a 3rd or 4th round pick, in my opinion.

ElectricEye 01-04-2012 12:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CDCB14 (Post 2810874)
Hawk and Curry present what you want our of a 3rd or 4th round pick, in my opinion.

Or lower. You can find guys like that deep in the draft if you do a good job with talent evaluation. Linebacker has become almost as de-valued a position as runningbacks have these days. You have to be pretty damn special at that position to be taken in the first round these days, let alone in the top fifteen. From a value perspective, drafting a sure tackler type in that slot is absolutely bonkers. That hasn't worked out for anyone aside from San Francisco with Willis. The impact those types of guys make just isn't worth a premium price....although in fairness, Curry's triangle numbers were absolutely fantastic and turned out to be a little deceiving.

I would still take Keuchly with a first round pick if he was the one piece I needed to round out a defense. I just wouldn't count on him to change the tide dramatically one way or the other....but I might be tempted to just stock pile defensive backs or front four players who can impact the game more and then look at Kendricks, Cole, or Acho much later in the the draft.

That sort of leads into the thing that makes Burfict so intriguing; he doesn't fall into that MLB impact trap that Kuechly(and most other MLB's) do. Watching him, you can see he's capable of doing the sort of things that change and impact games. He just hasn't done them consistently enough for me to feel good about him yet. I defiantly think the team taking him will be gambling a little bit.

Raiderz4Life 01-04-2012 01:56 AM

I'll take Taze all day. I believe he'll be better than Kooch as a pro

Matthew Jones 01-04-2012 02:22 AM

Kuechly would be the pick over Vontaze every time.

Matthew Jones 01-04-2012 02:22 AM

EDIT: Could a mod please delete this post?

Matthew Jones 01-04-2012 02:23 AM

EDIT: Could a mod please delete this post?

JBCX 01-04-2012 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CDCB14 (Post 2810869)
Since they are pretty much clones, who was a better prospect, Sean Lee or Keuchly?

Kuechly is a better prospect than Lee was due to Lee's injury concerns and medical red flags.

But medical stuff aside, I think Lee is actually a slightly better prospect based on college production and NFL potential. But it's pretty even if you discount medical stuff.

FUNBUNCHER 01-04-2012 11:09 AM

I'm looking at Kuechly as strictly a Mike in a 4-3. I don't know how easily he transitions to other LB positions.

He's like a mini Urlacher IMO. I have to think the Giants or Eagles are targeting him in the first.

Babylon 01-04-2012 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER (Post 2811169)
I'm looking at Kuechly as strictly a Mike in a 4-3. I don't know how easily he transitions to other LB positions.

He's like a mini Urlacher IMO. I have to think the Giants or Eagles are targeting him in the first.

With the emergence lately of Victor Cruz at the WR position i cant see the Giants going any other direction than Kuechly.


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