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-   -   Browns - Matt Flynn or RG3: It's One or the Other (http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=51444)

diemertsdawgs 03-07-2012 01:23 AM

Browns - Matt Flynn or RG3: It's One or the Other
 
:love: I love bothof these guys. The question is do you sign Flynn or give up the house to get RG3. I would not give up #4 and #22 for going up two spots to get RG3. I can see swapping first rounders this year and giving up a first next year....maybe. We need to stockpile picks and build our team. Sign Flynn and draft either Blackmon, Claiborne, or trade down and add more picks.:great:

Brothgar 03-07-2012 01:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by diemertsdawgs (Post 2889576)
:love: I love bothof these guys. The question is do you sign Flynn or give up the house to get RG3. I would not give up #4 and #22 for going up two spots to get RG3. I can see swapping first rounders this year and giving up a first next year....maybe. We need to stockpile picks and build our team. Sign Flynn and draft either Blackmon, Claiborne, or trade down and add more picks.:great:

It depends on what selling the farm means. If selling the farm is a first this year and either the 22 or a first next year I make the move. It is a real rarity to see a backup QB go into another system/team and succeed. Brett Favre, Matt Schawb, Matt Hasselbeck? Those are the only I can really think of and for every one of those you get several guys like Scott Mitchel, Kevin Kolb, Clipboard Jesus, etc. get the guy who is a stud in RG III.

Clarkw267 03-07-2012 02:18 AM

I think you have to give up #22 to get Griffin if you're the Browns.

I think it's a good deal for the Rams too, considering you can still land a premium prospect at #4 Kalil/Claiborne

Then at #22 you can come back with a WR (Hill, Wright)

duesouth 03-07-2012 04:36 AM

Or go with the Bengals model from last year. Take a WR high (in this case Blackmon) and then get a QB later (thinking Kirk Cousins as this years Andy Dalton).

rawdawg 03-07-2012 06:13 AM

If I'm the Browns, I call the Rams' bluff. No other team can give them a pick as high as 4. No other team can give them a second 1st rounder this year. I don't think the Redskins deal appeals much to the Rams as they would miss out on both Kalil and Claiborne at 6. I'm not convinced Blackmon is the target for them. So, I think the Browns have the power here. Either the Rams come down on their asking for both 1sts, take the less desirable Skins trade, or they stay where they are and the Browns still get RG3. Of course the decision will have to be made well before draft day, so that complicates things a little.

twiz 03-07-2012 06:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duesouth (Post 2889633)
Or go with the Bengals model from last year. Take a WR high (in this case Blackmon) and then get a QB later (thinking Kirk Cousins as this years Andy Dalton).

Being a Big 10 fan... Cousins is a perennial back-up QB at the next level. Browns shouldn't waste their time on a QB not named Luck or RG3 this draft. This isn't a development situation. You get an instant starter, or you go with Colt for another year.

onejayhawk 03-07-2012 07:00 AM

Flynn I see as Cassel II. They would be better with Weeden at #22.

J

SolidGold 03-07-2012 07:50 AM

The thing that worries me about Cleveland is they have zero offensive playmakers at the WR/TE spot and they had crap play calling from Shurmur - time will tell if Childress can change this.

Greg Little may be able to develop - he had a good rookie season but all his dropped passes really stuck out to me.

Evan Moore - not sure why they did not use him on a more consistent basis

Josh Cribbs - a really good talent but the coaching staff was not creative enough to use him in ways that showcase his versatility

The guys listed above are good players but I do not think any of them have the potential to be the focal point of an offense. They are more complimentary guys.

Flynn was throwing to one of the elite WR corps in the NFL when he had to play and was well schooled in the playbook. He also played behind a very good offensive line. The Browns missed Steinbach last year - Joe Thomas and Alex Mack are beasts but other than that the line play is mediocre.

Griffin if he goes to Cleveland will be facing the Steelers/Bengals/Ravens 6 times a year - not your typical Big 12 defenses. All three of those defensive units are in the upper echelon of NFL defenses. Zimmer is a hell of a d-coordinator and I do not really have to explain the Steelers/Ravens.

bitonti 03-07-2012 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SolidGold (Post 2889665)
The thing that worries me about Cleveland is they have zero offensive playmakers at the WR/TE spot .

which is why they should probably stick tight and take Blackmon. Maybe Tannehill at 22.

can't solve all the team's problems in 1 pick.

fear the elf 03-07-2012 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SolidGold (Post 2889665)
The thing that worries me about Cleveland is they have zero offensive playmakers at the WR/TE spot and they had crap play calling from Shurmur - time will tell if Childress can change this.

Greg Little may be able to develop - he had a good rookie season but all his dropped passes really stuck out to me.

Evan Moore - not sure why they did not use him on a more consistent basis

Josh Cribbs - a really good talent but the coaching staff was not creative enough to use him in ways that showcase his versatility

The guys listed above are good players but I do not think any of them have the potential to be the focal point of an offense. They are more complimentary guys.

I've been trying to convince people of this since the off-season began. What good is a top talent QB if he has nobody to get the ball to and half the OL will get him killed? You don't/can't develop guys in this situation. :grrrrrr:

Also, this from the Cleveland Plain Dealer.

Quote:

The Browns aren't willing to surrender their No. 22 pick at this point as part of a trade package to move up to No. 2 with the Rams to draft Robert Griffin III, league sources told the St. Louis Post-Dispatch.

fear the elf 03-07-2012 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onejayhawk (Post 2889651)
Flynn I see as Cassel II. They would be better with Weeden at #22.

J

I absolutely disagree. At least with Flynn you can still spend that #22 on somebody with talent that can help the team.

If you spend #22 on Weeden, you (most likely) get a Flynn/Cassel type but have to spend a HIGH pick on him.

bitonti 03-07-2012 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rawdawg (Post 2889639)
If I'm the Browns, I call the Rams' bluff. No other team can give them a pick as high as 4. No other team can give them a second 1st rounder this year. I don't think the Redskins deal appeals much to the Rams as they would miss out on both Kalil and Claiborne at 6.

there's a certain logic to this, the rams don't have as much leverage as they appear.

zachsaints52 03-07-2012 10:54 AM

Flynn- The next Kolb and Cassel. Was on a team with very good supporting cast, had a good game or two, and gets traded and will suck.

RG3

STsACE 03-07-2012 11:19 AM

Flynn; depends on at what cost. Don't see how giving a big contract to someone who was a backup with far superior talent would work going to a team who's best WR is a 2nd year player who's ceiling is that of what most would consider a #2 Wideout, no legitimate running game to back them up and an unstable O-line outside of Thomas and Mack.

RG3, I believe has a chance to fall to #4. Rams want the Browns picks as they can still get possibly one of their 2 main targets at #4. At #6 they risk losing out on both, IMO which is Kalil and Blackmon. I'd be very hesitant on giving up next years first as it could quite possibly be top 10 again. As a Browns fan, I'll admit, we're worse off than most fans think. We don't have tons of holes, but the holes we have are very significant.

I'm not all in on RG3 either like some Browns fan are. I'm also not Pro-McCoy as well, nor Pro-Flynn. I'm putting trust in our FO, which seems to carry respect from around the league into putting the best players on our team to succeed (within reason as only so much can be done with what is available). If we end up with RG3, then so be it, make it his team and build around him. If we end up with Flynn, then so be it. If it's still McCoy, so be it.

SolidGold 03-07-2012 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zachsaints52 (Post 2889902)
Flynn- The next Kolb and Cassel. Was on a team with very good supporting cast, had a good game or two, and gets traded and will suck.

RG3 - college QB played in a spread offense vs Big 12 defenses, runs a fast 40. If he gets drafted by the Browns he will be playing vs three very good AFC North defenses 6 times a year. Seems to be touted as a sure thing by just about everyone though

Fixed it for you.

fear the elf 03-07-2012 12:47 PM

^ Pretty much this. It's like everything I read is saying the Browns cannot pass on RG3 because he's such a sure thing, but a lot of his skill set is still a projection to an NFL offense and people are inflating his ceiling because he runs fast. Running fast is great, but if you're doing it enough for it to matter, you're probably not having much success as a team.

JoeJoeBrown 03-07-2012 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fear the elf (Post 2889776)
I've been trying to convince people of this since the off-season began. What good is a top talent QB if he has nobody to get the ball to and half the OL will get him killed? You don't/can't develop guys in this situation. :grrrrrr:

Also, this from the Cleveland Plain Dealer.

Obviously, I'm on board with you guys. If RGIII is there are #4 take him. If it means giving up a lot, don't take him. I'd be ok with them giving up a 2nd this year and next in addition to swapping #4 for #2.

If the Redskins land Manning, the price to jump from #4 to #2 is going to drop significantly.

fear the elf 03-07-2012 01:07 PM

Yeah, I could stomach the second round pick, but there's just too much we can do with that #22 pick.

Agreed about the Redskins and Manning. If it didn't have any implications on the Browns, I wouldn't like it for Manning, but I'm really hoping it happens to put the power in our hands.

Shane P. Hallam 03-07-2012 01:10 PM

It's easy, you go after Flynn. If you don't get him, make the move for RGIII, whatever means necessary.

Babylon 03-07-2012 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shane P. Hallam (Post 2890152)
It's easy, you go after Flynn. If you don't get him, make the move for RGIII, whatever means necessary.

I agree with your first part there, go after Flynn. Second would be let someone else take Griffin (Holmgren doesnt like QBs that come out early) and then trade down and accumulate more picks. With more ammo you can get a Ryan Tannehill a little bit later in the draft.

Shane P. Hallam 03-07-2012 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Babylon (Post 2890160)
I agree with your first part there, go after Flynn. Second would be let someone else take Griffin (Holmgren doesnt like QBs that come out early) and then trade down and accumulate more picks. With more ammo you can get a Ryan Tannehill a little bit later in the draft.

I just don't understand saying, we won't give up 22 than using 22 on Tannehill. Especially if a trade down is in place. Heck, most Browns fans are going with the TANEHILL SUXXORZ argument at this point and would rather have no QB than him. If the Browns stick with McCoy for another year, than they will just be one more year away from finding a franchise QB. It isn't McCoy, go get the best guy you can get NOW. If it's Tannehill, great, do it. But I am one of Tannehill's biggest supporters and RGIII is heads and tails better IMO.

PossibleCabbage 03-07-2012 01:21 PM

I would offer Flynn something like $9m/year before I would offer St. Louis something like "three first round picks" for RGIII.

zachsaints52 03-07-2012 01:30 PM

Originally Posted by zachsaints52
Flynn- The next Kolb and Cassel. Was on a team with very good supporting cast, had a good game or two, and gets traded and will suck.

RG3 - college QB played in a spread offense vs Big 12 defenses, runs a fast 40. If he gets drafted by the Browns he will be playing vs three very good AFC North defenses 6 times a year. Seems to be touted as a sure thing by just about everyone though

Quote:

Originally Posted by SolidGold (Post 2890095)
Fixed it for you.

I am by no means saying RG3 will be amazing. But if I had to choose between Flynn and RG3, I would pick RG3 all the time.

Shane P. Hallam 03-07-2012 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zachsaints52 (Post 2890194)
Originally Posted by zachsaints52
Flynn- The next Kolb and Cassel. Was on a team with very good supporting cast, had a good game or two, and gets traded and will suck.

RG3 - college QB played in a spread offense vs Big 12 defenses, runs a fast 40. If he gets drafted by the Browns he will be playing vs three very good AFC North defenses 6 times a year. Seems to be touted as a sure thing by just about everyone though



I am by no means saying RG3 will be amazing. But if I had to choose between Flynn and RG3, I would pick RG3 all the time.

I think most people would, but he will also cost you more draft pick wise (though less money wise)

Brown Leader 03-07-2012 02:19 PM

Quote:

Browns: Matt Flynn or RG3, it's one or the other.
Just... no.

Flynn ought to be the last resort for any team needing a potential franchise QB, not at or near the top of the list.


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