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-   -   Drafting for Your Divison (http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=52644)

Heisman 04-27-2012 02:14 AM

Drafting for Your Divison
 
Especially this year more than most, I feel like draft "experts" have been justifying draft selections based on the talent in a team's division.

Ex: "It would be wise for the Vikings to take Claiborne because they need to stop the threats of Calvin Johnson, Greg Jennings, and Brandon Marshall in order to compete in that division."

Do you feel that this is legitimate logic when making your draft choice and/or does it pull ANY weight at all when considering team needs? Quite honestly I'm not convinced it does. Teams are drafting players to win the Super Bowl, not to win the division.

Matthew Jones 04-27-2012 02:14 AM

True, but if you can't beat the teams in your division, you're probably not going to be making the playoffs. Six games is a big chunk of the season.

Heisman 04-27-2012 02:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew Jones (Post 2970968)
True, but if you can't beat the teams in your division, you're probably not going to be making the playoffs. Six games is a big chunk of the season.

Sure, but at the same time constantly chasing the tails of your division rivals wouldn't seem to do much good for a team either. If one team has a weakness isn't that weakness there regardless of whether your division exploits it or not...? The whole thing just seems like circular logic to me.

fenikz 04-27-2012 02:20 AM

I have no clue what my division was doing

Rams traded Claiborne for Brockers & 4th

Seahawks traded Cox for Irvin, 4th & 6th

49ers reached on AJ Jenkins instead of trading back for extra picks and selecting him sometime in the mid-late 2nd

descendency 04-27-2012 02:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fenikz (Post 2970977)
I have no clue what my division was doing

Rams traded Claiborne for Brockers & 4th

Seahawks traded Cox for Irvin, 4th & 6th

49ers reached on AJ Jenkins instead of trading back for extra picks and selecting him sometime in the mid-late 2nd

It must be amazing to get one of the top 6 players in this draft while picking at 13.

#envy

Then again, we passed on David DeCastro whom I have top 5 as well.

stl9erfan 04-27-2012 05:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fenikz (Post 2970977)
I have no clue what my division was doing

Rams traded Claiborne for Brockers & 4th

Seahawks traded Cox for Irvin, 4th & 6th

49ers reached on AJ Jenkins instead of trading back for extra picks and selecting him sometime in the mid-late 2nd

FWIW an article in the St. Louis Post Dispatch has basically said the Rams were planning on taking Jenkins at the top of the 2nd. So trading back probably wasn't really an option for the Niners if he was the guy they wanted. That doesn't necessarily make it a good pick, though. Personally, I was vey enamored of Stephen Hill there, but in Baalke we trust, I guess. After last year, he's earned somewhat of the benefit of the doubt from most Niners fans.

As for the general topic, I think it makes sense sometimes in the broad sense. Like if you're talking about the Bills and Jets and how their response to the Patriots has been to try and build really good defenses. But once you start talking about specific match ups, I think it gets silly. Doesn't make sense to talk about how the Cowboys drafted a corner because they're scared of RG3 or Eli-- they drafted a corner because their pass defense needed help and they liked the player. Period.

Donnie D 04-27-2012 05:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fenikz (Post 2970977)
I have no clue what my division was doing

Rams traded Claiborne for Brockers & 4th

Seahawks traded Cox for Irvin, 4th & 6th

49ers reached on AJ Jenkins instead of trading back for extra picks and selecting him sometime in the mid-late 2nd


Rams got the no.45 pick from the Cowboys, which is a mid-2nd rounder. St. Louis has 3 picks in the top 15 of the 2nd round. theyre in a great position going into Day 2.

TitanHope 04-27-2012 05:48 AM

Teams totally draft with consideration for their divisional foes. Hell, part of the reason the Titans took Michael Griffin was because they knew Jacksonville was going to take him. A team's ultimate goal is to reach the Super Bowl, but they usually outline it in a step-by-step process so they don't get ahead of themselves. Usually the first step in that list is to win the division: Win the division, get a bye, win full homefield advantage, take each playoff game one-by-one, and then win the Super Bowl.

Besides, half your schedule is against these teams. While I wouldn't advocate reaching for a CB because your division if full of good WR's, I do think it'd be wise to take a guy of value who would help boost your gameplan against them. Besides, chances are if you're facing an elite WR in 8 games and you don't have a guy who can cover those players, then CB will be a need regardless just because you've been burnt for half the season.

Caddy 04-27-2012 05:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donnie D (Post 2971041)
Rams got the no.45 pick from the Cowboys, which is a mid-2nd rounder. St. Louis has 3 picks in the top 15 of the 2nd round. theyre in a great position going into Day 2.

The Rams are killing this draft in my opinion. They turned the #2 pick into #12, Skins & Cowboys 2nd round picks and '13/'14 1st round picks. Obviously they will blow it because they are the Rams, but objectively, they have won the draft.

fenikz 04-27-2012 05:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donnie D (Post 2971041)
Rams got the no.45 pick from the Cowboys, which is a mid-2nd rounder. St. Louis has 3 picks in the top 15 of the 2nd round. theyre in a great position going into Day 2.

That certainly makes it a lot better was going off what my Rams friend was bitching about all day

SuperPacker 04-27-2012 10:28 AM

What really annoyed me was NFLN suggesting part of the reason the Bills took Gilmore was because of Tom Brady. WTF! Thats two games in a season, you dont draft someone because it will help you in two games of a 16 game season.

They play in a division with Tim Tebow and Matt Moore. If anything they should be staying away from corners and just drafting offense.

K Train 04-27-2012 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperPacker (Post 2971439)
What really annoyed me was NFLN suggesting part of the reason the Bills took Gilmore was because of Tom Brady. WTF! Thats two games in a season, you dont draft someone because it will help you in two games of a 16 game season.

They play in a division with Tim Tebow and Matt Moore. If anything they should be staying away from corners and just drafting offense.

i think thats more of an assumption that if you beat the patriots the chances are you can handle the bills and dolphins.

Texans draft mario williams why? to get after peyton manning

the bills sign mario williams why? to get after brady

mightytitan9 04-27-2012 10:34 AM

It's what teams do, years ago the Titans loaded up on d-line and Dbs to stop peyton.

you're acting like it's uncommon and it's really not

SuperPacker 04-27-2012 10:37 AM

I know it happens, but i just dont think the Bills drafted Stephon Gilmore because Tom Brady is in their division. They drafted him because they have a need at corner and they think he's the best player on the board.

CJSchneider 04-27-2012 10:45 AM

I think the logic is very sound. The example that jumps out at me is when Texas took Mario Williams at #1 instead of Reggie Bush. They did so because they knew in order to beat Indy and win their division, they needed someone to get to Manning.

falloutboy14 04-27-2012 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heisman (Post 2970966)
It would be wise for the Vikings to take Claiborne because they need to stop the threats of Calvin Johnson, Greg Jennings, and Brandon Marshall in order to compete in that division.

In a way, this is a silly argument. Every quality team in the league has a WR that can beat you. The Vikings don't need Claiborne because they're in the NFCN, they need a CB because they're in the NFL. The Bills didn't get Mario Williams because they need to get after Brady, they need to get after QBs in general. Every team you're going to struggle to beat has a good QB and a good WR.

When I think about drafting to beat a specific team, I think: If I'm the Giants or the Cowboys, I've got RG3 & Vick four games a year. So I'm preparing my defense to be able to contend/contain that unique quality.

hagy34 04-27-2012 11:02 AM

You gotta worry about your own team. The Vikes could have Revis and Claiborne and not beat the Pack, Lions or Bears right now. Need to add some weapons on offense, improve the line and shore up the secondary. You take whoever will improve your team the most, thats all there is to it.

yodabear 04-27-2012 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caddy (Post 2971050)
The Rams are killing this draft in my opinion. They turned the #2 pick into #12, Skins & Cowboys 2nd round picks and '13/'14 1st round picks. Obviously they will blow it because they are the Rams, but objectively, they have won the draft.

HEY NOW CADDY! Ahhh, ur prolly right even tho I have faith in Fisher. But to answer Fenikz's question. I think we wanted one of the three of Blackmon (the Jags traded right before us), Fletcher Cox (Eagles traded 2 picks ahead of us), and Michael Floyd (Feniks's very evil Cardinals took him right before us). Thats why I was so pissed last night. It was frustrating cuz it seems Brockers was at least #4 on our list. But seeing more highlights and stuff, Brockers has a chance to be that big run stuffing dude that we could always need cuz we always seem to be near the bottom in run defense.

sgtrobo 04-27-2012 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by descendency (Post 2970999)
It must be amazing to get one of the top 6 players in this draft while picking at 24.

slight adjustment. :)

mightytitan9 04-27-2012 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperPacker (Post 2971455)
I know it happens, but i just dont think the Bills drafted Stephon Gilmore because Tom Brady is in their division. They drafted him because they have a need at corner and they think he's the best player on the board.

yes, but did they adjust their board to overvalue CB's? It may not just be their division, it could just be their league all together

vidae 04-27-2012 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sgtrobo (Post 2971757)
slight adjustment. :)

Man I'm still pissed about that. I don't know what the Steelers are doing, but every year it seems an amazing prospect falls right into their laps. I'm pissed! :D

CJSchneider 04-27-2012 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by falloutboy14 (Post 2971498)

When I think about drafting to beat a specific team, I think: If I'm the Giants or the Cowboys, I've got RG3 & Vick four games a year. So I'm preparing my defense to be able to contend/contain that unique quality.

So would that be sorta like drafting to compete in your division or exactly like drafting to compete in your division?

prock 04-27-2012 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by K Train (Post 2971446)
i think thats more of an assumption that if you beat the patriots the chances are you can handle the bills and dolphins.

Texans draft mario williams why? to get after peyton manning

the bills sign mario williams why? to get after brady

They signed Mario Williams to get after the quarterback. That means any quarterback they play. They don't only play the Patriots.

mqtirishfan 04-27-2012 02:39 PM

It's a little ridiculous to think teams would draft a guy for the sole purpose of stopping a division rival. If a team is in the same division as a great QB and has an average starter at CB, and a terrible OT, should they really take a CB they value just as much as an OT on the board? A team should always take the BPA, and if there isn't much of a difference between players, draft for need.

Asteinebach 04-27-2012 02:43 PM

It might seem ridiculous. But I'd like to see any of you try to block Lawrence Taylor in his prime. Or Reggie White. Or DeMarcus Ware.

In general, you pick up the tools you need. But in special circumstances, the stars align and you have superstar players across the line of scrimmage and your guy just isn't good enough to hold him. Sometimes, yes, you have to find a way to defend it. But if you're getting burned by a superstar, your guy isn't doing his job well enough, is he?


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