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-   -   Overrated/Underrated in 2013? (http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=53048)

Matthew Jones 05-24-2012 11:10 AM

Overrated/Underrated in 2013?
 
We all know that many prospects who are graded as early-round picks before the start of the college football season eventually go much lower in the draft and a number of players shoot up draft boards and are selected much earlier than previously expected. Call it 11 months in advance: who are the overrated and underrated prospects at this point in the draft process?

ncst8fan83 05-24-2012 11:33 AM

Homer hat on - Mike Glennon is underrated. Not saying he should be a 1st round pick at this point, but 3rd-4th is undervaluing him as a player and prospect in my opinion.

Overrated - Tyler Bray. His production leaves a lot to be desired. A career 57.65% completion percentage. Never thrown for over 2k yards. Injury and character concerns. Just not sold on him yet.

wicket 05-24-2012 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ncst8fan83 (Post 3011734)
Overrated - Tyler Bray. His production leaves a lot to be desired. A career 57.65% completion percentage. Never thrown for over 2k yards. Injury and character concerns. Just not sold on him yet.

Underrated - Zach Martin - Im also going homer, the guy lacks one or two inches to be a first rounder i guess but he has been the best ND offensive lineman last season and already played up to a level i havent seen from an Irish Olineman in quite a few years.

Matthew Jones 05-24-2012 11:55 AM

Some of my overrated players:

QB Landry Jones, Oklahoma

Footwork is inconsistent and alters his arm angle too much; accuracy comes and goes, and pads stats by playing in a screen-happy spread offense.

RB Montee Ball, Wisconsin

Well-rounded and incredibly productive but the vast majority of his yardage is created by running through gaping holes cleared by his elite line.

OT Chris Faulk, Louisiana St.*

Massive road-grader in the run game but must improve his balance and ability to sustain blocks; could be forced to move to right tackle in the NFL.

OT D.J. Fluker, Alabama*

Alabama has not felt comfortable moving him to the right side; plays softer than his size would indicate and is not a finisher by any means.

OL Barrett Jones, Alabama

Versatility and intelligence should make him a late first or early second-round pick but is not a top athlete and has trouble sustaining blocks.

DT Johnathon Hankins, Ohio St.*

Quality run defender with the size to interest teams as a nose tackle but is blocked too often by just one lineman and lacks top rush skills.

FS Bacarri Rambo, Georgia

Awesome name and a ton of interceptions last year have severely inflated his stock; misses too many tackles and gets caught out of position.

SS Ray-Ray Armstrong, Miami (FL)

Seductive size but instincts are severely lacking and often finds himself out of position due to bad angles; goes for big hit too often.

SS Kenny Vaccaro, Texas

Does not play up to his listed size and lacks top ball skills; more of a versatile third-rounder than a first-round possibility.

ncst8fan83 05-24-2012 11:57 AM

Quote:

RB Montee Ball, Wisconsin

Well-rounded and incredibly productive but the vast majority of his yardage is created by running through gaping holes cleared by his elite line.
Where was this argument when Reggie Bush came out?

proshoota25 05-24-2012 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ncst8fan83 (Post 3011754)
Where was this argument when Reggie Bush came out?

reggie was making highlights down the field and making tacklers look silly, sure he had big holes but he finished plays due to his his elite speed and shiftiness. cant say the same for montee. ball is a very good player in his own right though

underscore 05-24-2012 04:42 PM

Monte Ball is likely to get a workload like he got last year, too. Pushing 600 carries in 2 years won't do him well come draft day.

Matthew Jones 05-24-2012 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ncst8fan83 (Post 3011754)
Where was this argument when Reggie Bush came out?

That's a ridiculous statement considering Reggie Bush was an elite athlete who used his elusiveness and unreal burst to create far more for himself than Ball, who is able to pick up what his offensive line gives him but rarely breaks tackles or makes defenders miss.

Bixby (Thumper) 05-24-2012 05:00 PM

Underrated: Taylor Lewan

ncst8fan83 05-24-2012 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew Jones (Post 3012077)
That's a ridiculous statement considering Reggie Bush was an elite athlete who used his elusiveness and unreal burst to create far more for himself than Ball, who is able to pick up what his offensive line gives him but rarely breaks tackles or makes defenders miss.

Yes, Reggie has done this so much since he was drafted. I digress though. This shouldn't be about Reggie. Just found it funny.

RCAChainGang 05-24-2012 06:36 PM

Yeah I'm not very high on Montee Ball.

I like what I have seen from Knile Davis better.

princefielder28 05-24-2012 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew Jones (Post 3012077)
That's a ridiculous statement considering Reggie Bush was an elite athlete who used his elusiveness and unreal burst to create far more for himself than Ball, who is able to pick up what his offensive line gives him but rarely breaks tackles or makes defenders miss.

You need to watch more Montee Ball then if you think that's the case. He may not be super elusive in the open field like a Reggie Bush, but between the tackles he cuts exceptionally and does a wonderful job of evading and side-stepping tacklers.

Ball's abilities are often overlooked and the Badgers offensive line is usually given the majority of the credit, but Ball is simply more than a product of the system. James White had a disappointing sophomore year and based off of the perception out there he should've been able to pick up four yards without an issue because of the big boys in front of him. I guess what I am trying to say is that it's a lazy argument against Ball to put his production solely, or the majority of it, on the line's shoulders.

Matthew Jones 05-24-2012 08:24 PM

Ball is an effective one-cut runner who is decisive enough and well-rounded enough to warrant a pick in the 60-80 range but many people are ranking him as one of the top senior draft picks. Don't you think the "if you disagree with me, you haven't watched him" fallacy is childish? Wisconsin is actually one of my most-watched football programs largely because of the effectiveness of their ground game, which often clears running lanes that look something like this:


princefielder28 05-24-2012 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew Jones (Post 3012308)
Ball is an effective one-cut runner who is decisive enough and well-rounded enough to warrant a pick in the 60-80 range but many people are ranking him as one of the top senior draft picks. Don't you think the "if you disagree with me, you haven't watched him" fallacy is childish? Wisconsin is actually one of my most-watched football programs largely because of the effectiveness of their ground game, which often clears running lanes that look something like this:

I'm trying to stay away from that, but you're making a generalization about the Badgers' program that really didn't hold true 100% last season. The Badgers line was talented, not as much as years past, and Ball's production and game are not simply the product of an exceptional line. Granted there are instances like the picture you have above but there are countless examples throughout the season where Ball turned one or two yard runs into far greater gains because of his elusiveness and ability to find/hit the hole; not to mention that he is also a fantastic pass catcher. Ball is a much different player than the likes of Brian Calhoun, Anthony Davis, and John Clay before him.

Matthew Jones 05-24-2012 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by princefielder28 (Post 3012313)
I'm trying to stay away from that, but you're making a generalization about the Badgers' program that really didn't hold true 100% last season. The Badgers line was talented, not as much as years past, and Ball's production and game are not simply the product of an exceptional line. Granted there are instances like the picture you have above but there are countless examples throughout the season where Ball turned one or two yard runs into far greater gains because of his elusiveness and ability to find/hit the hole; not to mention that he is also a fantastic pass catcher. Ball is a much different player than the likes of Brian Calhoun, Anthony Davis, and John Clay before him.

I don't think he's similar to Calhoun, Davis, or Clay. More like a Joseph Addai.

ATLDirtyBirds 05-24-2012 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RCAChainGang (Post 3012209)
Yeah I'm not very high on Montee Ball.

I like what I have seen from Knile Davis better.

If healthy, Knile is absolutely better than Ball.

America 05-24-2012 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew Jones (Post 3011748)
SS Kenny Vaccaro, Texas
Does not play up to his listed size and lacks top ball skills; more of a versatile third-rounder than a first-round possibility.

Vaccaro is one of the biggest hitters in the big 12 conference and he can cover the slot. He plays much bigger than his size, he's not that big at all.

Matthew Jones 05-24-2012 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by America (Post 3012375)
Vaccaro is one of the biggest hitters in the big 12 conference and he can cover the slot. He plays much bigger than his size, he's not that big at all.

Vacarro is listed at 6'1" and 215 pounds, that's pretty big for a safety prospect. To put that in perspective, Mark Barron was 6'1", 213, Antonio Allen was 6'2", 210, Markelle Martin was 6'1", 207, Harrison Smith was 6'2", 213, and Brandon Taylor was 5'11", 209.

FUNBUNCHER 05-25-2012 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew Jones (Post 3012308)
Ball is an effective one-cut runner who is decisive enough and well-rounded enough to warrant a pick in the 60-80 range but many people are ranking him as one of the top senior draft picks. Don't you think the "if you disagree with me, you haven't watched him" fallacy is childish? Wisconsin is actually one of my most-watched football programs largely because of the effectiveness of their ground game, which often clears running lanes that look something like this:



LOL.

That's just ridiculous blocking by Wisconsin and they blast running lanes like that for Ball at least 3 times a game.

It may not be fair to Ball, but if he doesn't score on opportunities like this almost every single time, it hurts in his evaluation.

Not saying Ball doesn't have the ability to be a starting RB in the NFL, but I still believe he's nowhere as good as his stats would suggest.

Otherwise he would have declared in 2012.

Brothgar 05-25-2012 10:25 AM

Well I don't like to make blanket statements but USC QBs tend to be over rated.

iowatreat54 05-25-2012 11:56 AM

James Vandenberg is going to shatter all your worlds en route to a record setting season and top 10 pick next April.



No, but seriously, with the new offense and if Vandenberg can resolve his mental issues (specifically playing on the road and not making stupid throws), he has all the tools to put together a really good year. Last year he passed for 3000 yards and had a 4:1 TD:INT ratio. With no running game, supposedly an increase in spread passing formations and more up tempo series, Vandenberg could move up to a 3rd-4th round prospect I think...

CashmoneyDrew 05-25-2012 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ncst8fan83 (Post 3011734)
Overrated - Tyler Bray. His production leaves a lot to be desired. A career 57.65% completion percentage. Never thrown for over 2k yards. Injury and character concerns. Just not sold on him yet.

You'll see how overrated he is August 31.

TitanHope 05-25-2012 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CashmoneyDrew (Post 3012680)
You'll see how overrated he is August 31.


Matthew Jones 05-25-2012 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by broth223 (Post 3012550)
Well I don't like to make blanket statements but USC QBs tend to be over rated.

It would be foolish to completely disregard a program's prospects based on what previous prospects did, especially because the coaching staff/scheme has changed. Besides, it's too early to make a call on Mark Sanchez, and Carson Palmer had a solid career in Cincinnati despite regressing severely later during his time there (he's probably the most significant Bengal of all time.)

JoeJoeBrown 05-25-2012 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER (Post 3012543)
LOL.

That's just ridiculous blocking by Wisconsin and they blast running lanes like that for Ball at least 3 times a game.

It may not be fair to Ball, but if he doesn't score on opportunities like this almost every single time, it hurts in his evaluation.

Not saying Ball doesn't have the ability to be a starting RB in the NFL, but I still believe he's nowhere as good as his stats would suggest.

Otherwise he would have declared in 2012.

Total tangent, but man, Pitt might be something to reckon with over the next few years if Chryst can get any line talent.


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