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-   -   What team had the best aerial options since the merger? (http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=53063)

Ness 05-26-2012 09:32 PM

What team had the best aerial options since the merger?
 
My top vote goes to the Rams circa 1999-2001. At least from what I saw personally. Bruce, Holt, Hakim, Proehl, and Faulk out of the backfield for a solid three years was pretty deadly.

The Vikings of the late 90's with Reed, Moss, Carter, and Smith were nice as well. I'd give to the edge to the Rams though in that period.

The 49ers had a nice group in the late eighties with Rice, Taylor, Jones, and Craig, and I like that they didn't play in a dome...but unfortunately I was too young to watch that with immense detail on a weekly basis.

phlysac 05-26-2012 09:59 PM

One of my favorite groups...

Buffalo Bills

Andre Reed
James Lofton
Don Beebe
Thurman Thomas
Kenneth Davis
Keith McKeller
Pete Metzelaars

WCH 05-26-2012 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phlysac (Post 3013813)
One of my favorite groups...

Buffalo Bills

Andre Reed
James Lofton
Don Beebe
Thurman Thomas
Kenneth Davis
Keith McKeller
Pete Metzelaars

Kelly/Lofton/Reed/Beebe/Thomas is a "holy ****" squad. I think that if they played under todays rules, they'd probably be the dynasty to end all dynasties.

TheFinisher 05-26-2012 11:05 PM

Arizona with Fitzgerald, Boldin and Breaston.

San Diego with Winslow Sr., Charlie Joiner and John Jefferson.

Miami with Super Duper and Mark Clayton.


And when you consider the QBs of those teams you understand why they were some of the greatest offenses of all time.

Ness 05-27-2012 12:21 AM

I also liked the Houston Oilers line up of the late eighties, early 90's.

Haywood Jeffires
Ernest Givens
Drew Hill
Curtis Duncan
Lorenzo White

RaiderNation 05-27-2012 12:26 AM

Jerry Rice, Tim Brown and Jerry Porter in 2002 were awesome with Gannon at QB. I doubt there's ever been a combo with as many catches as Rice and Brown had in their careers that played together.

Bulldogs 05-27-2012 12:44 AM

Some options that haven't been mentioned yet:

Mid 2000 Colts:

Peyton Manning
Reggie Wayne
Marvin Harrison
Brandon Stokley
Marcus Pollard
Edgerrin James

Late 2000 Patriots:

Tom Brady
Randy Moss
Wes Welker
Donte Stallworth
Ben Watson

The top three aren't as strong for the Pats here, but a top 5 QB all time throwing to a top 5 receiver all time is pretty awesome.

bam bam 05-27-2012 01:15 AM

Kyle Boller
Travis Taylor
Clarence Moore
Randy Hymes

Brent 05-27-2012 07:46 AM

Tim Rattay/Alex Smith
Arnaz Battle
Brandon Lloyd
Rasheed Marshall
Marcus Maxwell
Kevan Barlow/Frank Gore

I forgot how bad '05 was.

descendency 05-27-2012 08:01 AM

Brady to Moss and Welker may be the best QB to WR combo ever.

Matthew Jones 05-27-2012 10:33 AM

Aaron Rodgers to Greg Jennings, Jordy Nelson, and Jermichael Finley is one of the best in recent memory.

Gay Ork Wang 05-27-2012 11:05 AM

Chicago Bears!

stlouisfan37 05-27-2012 11:50 AM

As much as I hate to admit it, it's hard to argue against the 49er teams with Montana/Rice/Taylor/Jones/Craig/Rathman. The Greatest Show teams were awfully good as well, but they never had the TE that I always thought would have made them unstoppable had they worked it into the gameplan.

But I actually think that maybe the most well-balanced passing attack could be the current New Orleans team. They had 6 guys with over 500 yards receiving last year, and Pierre Thomas added 425.

Sloopy 05-27-2012 02:41 PM

I think you have to include the current Saints lineup in this.

Obviously, it is statistically the greatest passing attack of all time in terms of yards this season and the only one of the teams listed with two 5,000+ yard season (2011, 2008)

7 players with over 400 yards with 6 of whom had over 500 and two with over 1,000 yards.

Also, a RB who broke records for most yards in a season (receiving, rushing, and returning)

The Pats 2007 team could also be considered the greatest passing attack of all time if you look at it in terms of TDs. Including a receiver who broke Jerry Rice's record for TDs in a season.

The Colts would likely place third behind them.

If I had to order it, I'd go:

1. Saints
2. Pats
3a. Colts
3b. Rams

Without a doubt though, it has to be the Saints if one looks at it objectively.

They may not have a Rice or Moss etc. but they have a larger group of dependable WRs.

descendency 05-27-2012 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sloopy (Post 3014559)
Without a doubt though, it has to be the Saints if one looks at it objectively.

I'm not going to try to pretend I am objective, but I do think there will be some merit to me questioning the "without a doubt" part. The Patriots beat the doors off just about everyone before they hit their late season skid. They destroyed teams like they were playing in a dome. The 08 Patriots put up 42 before half - in a blizzard. I'd love to see Brees in Foxborough in a blizzard.

The Saints struggle outside of the dome. The 49er playoff game was very close, but that could have been a blowout in the dome. Brees just never looks comfortable outdoors.

I think it's fair to say that the Saints, in their dome, are the best offense ever. Outside, I do think it's fair to question that.

OSUGiants17 05-27-2012 04:23 PM

Eli Manning to Nicks/Cruz/Manningham

If we had a better TE or Gilbride threw the ball more this group could have broken records. Still had a great season even without those 2 IFs.

Sportsfan486 05-27-2012 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sloopy (Post 3014559)
I think you have to include the current Saints lineup in this.

Without a doubt though, it has to be the Saints if one looks at it objectively.

They may not have a Rice or Moss etc. but they have a larger group of dependable WRs.

Uh. Just no. The Saints have a fantastic and versatile offensive scheme with an amazing QB. They also have probably the best RB in terms of the passing game and the second best TE.

They also have a relatively weak WR corp. Marques Colston would be Green Bay's #3 WR/#4 target. None of their other WRs would make Green Bay's top 5 targeted options in the passing game.

The Saints passing game would rank as the #3 best in the NFL currently, let alone since the merger. The Packers and Patriots are simply and currently superior right now and I don't think there's a single objective coach/GM that would take the Saints passing options (or QB, for that matter) above those of either of those two teams.

Would I rank the Saints passing offense of last year in the top 10 since the merger? Yes. But not top 5.

Saints-Tigers 05-27-2012 05:03 PM

Our weapons aren't the best. Drew just is :D

phlysac 05-27-2012 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brent (Post 3013986)
Tim Rattay/Alex Smith
Arnaz Battle
Brandon Lloyd
Rasheed Marshall
Marcus Maxwell
Kevan Barlow/Frank Gore

I forgot how bad '05 was.

Don't forget Johnnie Morton, Jason McAddley, and Billy Bajema.

Ness 05-27-2012 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phlysac (Post 3014677)
Don't forget Johnnie Morton, Jason McAddley, and Billy Bajema.

And Curtis Conway.

Sloopy 05-28-2012 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by descendency (Post 3014630)
I'm not going to try to pretend I am objective, but I do think there will be some merit to me questioning the "without a doubt" part. The Patriots beat the doors off just about everyone before they hit their late season skid. They destroyed teams like they were playing in a dome. The 08 Patriots put up 42 before half - in a blizzard. I'd love to see Brees in Foxborough in a blizzard.

The Saints struggle outside of the dome. The 49er playoff game was very close, but that could have been a blowout in the dome. Brees just never looks comfortable outdoors.

I think it's fair to say that the Saints, in their dome, are the best offense ever. Outside, I do think it's fair to question that.

Maybe the without a doubt tag is a bit much. As I also said in the post, the Patriots have an argument and I think that one could say that scoring more points is more valuable to a team than having more yards.

I don't really want to get into the dome argument because it would exclude a few of the teams we are talking about here. In the end, we can't say how any of these teams would fair if they didn't play in a dome any more than we can say how the Pats would have done if they had a dome.

Yes the Saints struggle outdoors, but you could also make the argument that they would be more ready for weather if they didn't play in a dome for half of their games.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sportsfan486 (Post 3014654)
The Saints have a fantastic and versatile offensive scheme with an amazing QB. They also have probably the best RB in terms of the passing game and the second best TE.

They also have a relatively weak WR corp. Marques Colston would be Green Bay's #3 WR/#4 target. None of their other WRs would make Green Bay's top 5 targeted options in the passing game.

Please tell me you are joking right now. Marques Colston would easily be the #3 WR on that team if not the #2. TBH there is a possibility that he would beat out Jennings. End of the day, Rodgers makes those WRs.

Quote:

The Saints passing game would rank as the #3 best in the NFL currently, let alone since the merger.
Please... tell me more about how the record breaking #1 ranked passing team in the league last year is the 3rd best passing team :waiting:

Quote:

The Packers and Patriots are simply and currently superior right now and I don't think there's a single objective coach/GM that would take the Saints passing options (or QB, for that matter) above those of either of those two teams.
Good. I love the factual direction that this argument is going in :njx:

[/quote]Would I rank the Saints passing offense of last year in the top 10 since the merger? Yes. But not top 5.[/quote]

How are they top 10 since the merger but not top 3 this past year? I don't have a top 10 list in mind, but I imagine it would be hard to be in the top 10 if your not in the top 3 even of a specific year.

so no facts needed, no logical process, no objective view... just Pats and Packers are better this year and statistically the best passing attack ever isn't even in the conversation... got it.

I get that stats aren't everything; but when talking about prolific passing attacks, one might wan't to at least consider production as a key aspect of determining who is the best.

bigbluedefense 05-28-2012 02:22 PM

I gotta go with either the Greatest Show on Turf or the 2007 Pats. It's a tough one btw those 2. The Rams had more firepower, but Moss and Welker with K. Faulk in the backfield was deadly too.

The 89 49ers were sick too.

Monomach 05-28-2012 02:39 PM

I have to go with the Vikings when the 1990s were becoming the 2000s.

Chris Carter and Randy Moss at wideout. Collections of running backs who were above average pass-catchers. Averagish TEs. ...and they weren't a product of their QB.

Sportsfan486 05-28-2012 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sloopy (Post 3015372)
Please tell me you are joking right now. Marques Colston would easily be the #3 WR on that team if not the #2. TBH there is a possibility that he would beat out Jennings. End of the day, Rodgers makes those WRs.

Please... tell me more about how the record breaking #1 ranked passing team in the league last year is the 3rd best passing team :waiting:

so no facts needed, no logical process, no objective view... just Pats and Packers are better this year and statistically the best passing attack ever isn't even in the conversation... got it.

I get that stats aren't everything; but when talking about prolific passing attacks, one might wan't to at least consider production as a key aspect of determining who is the best.

I'm pretty sure I said Colston would be GB's #3. And yes, Finley would still be ahead of him for targets. And the fact that you even mentioned Colston and Jennings in the same sentence is, to be brutally honest, ignorant. Also, how does Rodgers make his receivers good yet Brees doesn't do the same? Way to fail at making a point.

The Pats and Packers have the better QBs. Like I said. I suppose you could argue Brees is better than Brady but there isn't a coach or GM that would take Brees over Rodgers right now. Are you really going to argue that?

Yards. What do yards get you, exactly? They broke YARDAGE records. I'm sorry but who cares? They didn't break scoring records and, frankly, their passing attack is based extensively on what are effectively long handoffs. And they had a whooping 400 more passing yards than the Packers, even with the Packers letting off the gas consistently in games they were blowing out on route to 15-1.

Stats aren't everything. The Packers are clearly the superior passing team (do I have to explain that one? They have the best QB and the best overall passing weapons and they scored more PPG with much less of a running game.) The Patriots and Saints are close, more 2a and 2b, but Gronkowski is obviously better than Graham (as excellent as Graham is,) and the receiving core is better.

And for your stats.. go rewatch Packers games towards the middle of the 3rd quarter and Saints games at the end of the 4th. Notably blowouts. The difference? Packers pulled Rodgers early in every blowout while the Saints kept Brees in. Yet still scored more points.

The Packers had 5 more passing touchdowns than the Saints and 6 less INTs. Despite above factual. They scored more POINTS PER GAME than the Saints despite a clearly inferior rushing game (again, anyone going to argue that?) Yes. They're a better aerial attack.

I'll agree that the Saints and Pats are 2a and 2b. The Packers are clearly superior.

As for the Saints last year not being top 5... again, you're stuck on stats. Rule changes have catered to offensive number explosion, most notably in the passing game. You can't compare stats from now and 10 years ago; apples and oranges. You have to compare within the framework of the other offenses of the time.

Some of those Niners and Rams teams, the Pats in 2007. You have to have them top 5. Ditto for the Packers last year.

Brent 05-29-2012 07:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phlysac (Post 3014677)
Don't forget Johnnie Morton, Jason McAddley, and Billy Bajema.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ness (Post 3014707)
And Curtis Conway.

Just... wow... so many memories that were blocked out are coming back.


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