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-   -   Duffman's Big Boy Thread (http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=53218)

Duffman57 06-10-2012 06:20 PM

Duffman's Big Boy Thread
 
Alright so hopefully i'll be able to update this and add all positions of the front 7 (Both 4-3 and 3-4), and the OL (Possibly adding RB's and TE's later) and give an analysis of players. I hate scouting the little guys for the most part (Especially the Smurfs (DBs) but also WR's just because their so hard to watch/scout without real coaches tape), so i decided to just do the big boys along the DL and OL and then the LB's. I'll porbably start with DL and and then move on from there, just depending on what i'm in the mood to scout.

I'll be updating this consistently throughout the season.

Duffman57 06-10-2012 06:21 PM

4-3 Defensive Ends:
1. Sam Montgomery
2. Alex Okafor
3. Barkevious Mingo
4. William Gholston
5. Margus Hunt
6. Devin Taylor
7. John Simon
8. Jackson Jeffcoat
9. Bjorne Werner
10. Wes Horton

My Take:
Extremely strong class of Pass rushers this year, but i'm not sure it is as good for DE's as it is for 3-4 OLB's. There are lots of undersized DE's, who are perfectly fit for the 3-4 OLB spot. Okafor, Gholston, Hunt and Taylor are the only ones on that list that i think are better fits at DE than OLB.

4-3 Under Tackles:
1. Star Lotulelei
2. Bennie Logan
3. Sheldon Richardson
4. Shariff Floyd
5. Dominque Easley

My Take:
There are some strong players there, but overall, not that great of a group. Lotulelei is just a stud, can play any interior DL position in a 43 or 34 (including 34 DE), and might be the #1 player at all of those positions. Bennie Logan, Richardson and Floyd all have the potential to be top 20 picks, but as of right now, their boarderline 1st IMO. Someone can really step up and stand out this year, and make himself a LOT of money in a class lacking a true dominant 4-3 UT.

4-3 Nose Guards:
1. Star Lotulelei
2. Jesse Williams
3. Johnathan Hankins
4. Sylvester Williams
5. Kwaan Short

My Take:
This class is STACKED with NG's and NT's, but i'm not sure how many have the athleticism to play in the 43. Lotulelei is once again the true beast of the group, but Williams/Hankins are somewhat close, but their both later 1st round picks to early 2nd round area. I dont think either Georgia NT's have the athleticism to play in the 43 but i need to watch more of this position to get a true sense of each players ability.

3-4 Defensive End:
1. Margus Hunt
2. Damion Square
3. Sheldon Richardson
4. Bennie Logan
5. Shariff Floyd

My Take:
I'm not sure what dropped Square off the radar, but he was being pumped as a top pick last year. Maybe the injury isn't alowing him to play the same, but he's a stud if healthy. Hunt is just an athletic freak. Justin Smith CLONE, He's going to be a stud. Overall this is a pretty weak group thats filled with more UT's than guys with prototypical 5 tech measurements, but there could be some good talent depending on scheme fit, and the two top guys are both perfect 5T's. I didn't include Lotulelei since he's more of a NT that can move to DE depending on need, but he could possibly be the top 5 Tech as well.

3-4 Nose Tackles:
1. Star Lotulelei

Height: 6’4”
Weight: 325
School: Utah

Positives:
-Extremely strong at the POA
-Keeps leverage very well for a taller DT
-Routinely holds ground vs. double teams
-Perfect 3-4 NT’s
-Extreme Versatility (Can play all 4 Interior DL positions including the 5T, maybe even 43 LE in a pinch)
-VERY quick off the line and good reaction off snap, gets into the OL before he can react.
-Pushes the pocket very well
-Dominates Single blocks like he should
-Will make plays when given 1 on 1 situations
-Reads blocking schemes VERY well (goes with the stretch plays I mentioned earlier)
- Best athlete to come out at DT since Ngata, might be just as good/better
-Drops into coverage 2-3 times a game…..from the NT position :shock:

Negatives:
-Slightly top heavy
-Wont offer much more pass rush than pushing the pocket as a NT
-Not a playmaker as NT (but then again, there’s only 1 or 2 of those in the league)
-Doesn’t protect his lower body vs. Cut blocks
-Diagnostic skills need work, can get fooled by PA at times
Player Comparison: Isaac Sopoaga
Sopoaga was EXTREMELY misused under the horrible regime of Singletary/Manusky. But once they let him play NT and get after it, he’s a top 3 NT in the game. But the other big thing here is the extreme athleticism he has, you saw it this year, throwing the ball to the big 325 pounder a few times this year as a FB. Both are just SCARY jumbo athletes.
2. Johnathan Hankins
3. Jesse Williams
4. Jonathan Jenkins
5. Kwan Short

My Take:
This NT class has about 5-6 guys who realistically could go in the first 2-3 rounds. There's 2 Georgia NT's, Hankins, Williams are all boarderline 1st round (Lotulelei is in a class of his own here, best prospect possibly since Ngata), and Short and Sylvester Williams are probably 2nd to 3rd rounders. This is a good class for needing that prototypical run stuffing 3-4 NT's.

Duffman57 06-10-2012 06:22 PM

3-4 Outside Linebackers:
1. Barkevious Mingo


Height: 6’5”
Weight: 240
School: Louisiana State
Positives:
-Perfect Frame for any pass rushing position
-Athletecism is as good as it gets
-Anchors incredibly well for someone so lean
-Very good hand MOVEMENT
-Explosiveness is elite
-Has one of the best motors I have ever seen on a pass rusher in a long time
-Looks very good rushing out of a standup
-Instincts are very good
-Always around the ball making plays because of Motor
Negatives:
-Almost too good of a motor/hand movement (When hand fighting, is almost throwing full punches, loads up to hand fight)
-Raw as a pass rusher, has good hand movement, but no real moves other than a spin
-Lean (really needs to bulk up
-Needs to take better angles at times

Player Comparison: DeMarcus Ware/Von Miller

Its hard to put a comparison on a player thats this athletic, but this raw, with the kind of motor he has. But right now i'd say Ware is a good one. He holds ground in the run game better than he should, is a non stop player, and kind of reserved on the field, doesn't get really up and down on plays he makes/misses. But he is probably a slightly better athlete than Ware ( :shock: )

2. Jarvis Jones

Height: 6’3”
Weight 241
School: Georgia
Positives:
-Next step down from elite burst
-Very good athlete
-Top end speed is elite
-Natural feel for pass rushing
-Great job cutting back and finding then shooting gaps when rushing the passer
-Closing speed is elite
-Does a very good job in coverage
-Heavy hands
-Solid but not spectacular vs. the run
-Very Physical player
-Instincts are near elite
-Body type is perfect for the position
-Can play both 4-3 SAM or 3-4 WOLB (vs. LT)
Negatives:
-Once a blocker gets in front of him, he’s done
-Once blocker is locked on, handwork seems to disappear
-Needs to add weight
-Seems to be strictly a speed rusher
-Seems to be either a sack or nothing guy, doesn’t force many pressures
-If blocker gets a hold of him early he’s finished
Player Comparison: Clay Matthews
He’s an outstanding pass rusher, but unless he adds weight and becomes a more physical edge rusher, then he wont be much more than a situational pass rusher. A great LB already, should develop into an even better pass rusher when he gains bulk assuming that he has the frame to do that and not lose explosiveness.

3. Sam Montgomery
4. Dion Jordan
5. Alex Okafor
6. Devin Taylor
7. Jackson Jeffcoat
8. Sean Porter
9. Corey Lemonier
10. John Simon/Michael Buchanon

My Take:
Once again, this is an absolutely stacked class of pass rushers, even more-so for the 3-4 OLB spot than from the 4-3 DE spot. Mingo is the perfect OLB prospect, reminds me of Ware, maybe even a better athlete, and a bigger frame. Jarvis Jones is a more polished product, but not near the athlete that Mingo is, though he is a solid athlete, i just dont see anything special from him. Dion Jordan is an absolute stud, and more agile than a 6'7" 245 person should be. Elite ability to bend the edge and very good (not elite) burst, but his best ability is his versatility, plays as a cover 2 CB in some situations. But overall, there could be 7 of these players selected in the first round.

3-4 Inside Linebackers:
TBD

4-3 Outside Linebackers:
TBD

4-3 Inside Linebackers:
TBD[/img]

Duffman57 06-10-2012 06:22 PM

Reserved for Offensive Linemen

Duffman57 06-10-2012 06:23 PM

One more just in case this actually goes throughout the season like i plan on doing it...lol

Duffman57 06-10-2012 07:08 PM

Just got done with Star Lotulelei. I gotta fix up my rankings a bit too, some guys like Short are too low and Simon should not be in the 3-4 OLB category.

Star Lotulelei

Height: 6’4”
Weight: 325
School: Utah

Positives:
-Extremely strong at the POA
-Keeps leverage very well for a taller DT
-Routinely holds ground vs. double teams
-Perfect 3-4 NT’s
-Extreme Versatility (Can play all 4 Interior DL positions including the 5T, maybe even 43 LE in a pinch)
-VERY quick off the line and good reaction off snap, gets into the OL before he can react.
-Pushes the pocket very well
-Dominates Single blocks like he should
-Will make plays when given 1 on 1 situations
-Reads blocking schemes VERY well (goes with the stretch plays I mentioned earlier)
- Best athlete to come out at DT since Ngata, might be just as good/better
-Drops into coverage 2-3 times a game…..from the NT position :shock:

Negatives:
-Slightly top heavy
-Wont offer much more pass rush than pushing the pocket as a NT
-Not a playmaker as NT (but then again, there’s only 1 or 2 of those in the league)
-Doesn’t protect his lower body vs. Cut blocks
-Diagnostic skills need work, can get fooled by PA at times
Player Comparison: Isaac Sopoaga
Sopoaga was EXTREMELY misused under the horrible regime of Singletary/Manusky. But once they let him play NT and get after it, he’s a top 3 NT in the game. But the other big thing here is the extreme athleticism he has, you saw it this year, throwing the ball to the big 325 pounder a few times this year as a FB. Both are just SCARY jumbo athletes.

SenorGato 06-11-2012 10:03 PM

Hunt is not a Justin Smith clone.

OTOH - Very cool writup. Not as big a Hunt or Mingo fan as you are.

Duffman57 06-11-2012 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SenorGato (Post 3030268)
Hunt is not a Justin Smith clone.

Clone was a bit rash, but he shows flashes of being that guy.

I mostly meant J Smith in terms of being that type of freakish athlete that can play about every DL position other than NT, and may even be able to play OLB.

SenorGato 06-11-2012 11:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duffman57 (Post 3030281)
Clone was a bit rash, but he shows flashes of being that guy.

I mostly meant J Smith in terms of being that type of freakish athlete that can play about every DL position other than NT, and may even be able to play OLB.

I just don't think he's that good.

Damn these new ads.

Duffman57 06-11-2012 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SenorGato (Post 3030336)
I just don't think he's that good.

Damn these new ads.

Like i said, i dont think he's that good, but he's an absolute athletic freak with the best of them (Similar to JJ Watt 2 drafts ago). He's flashed potential to be that kind of player, but was largely unspectacular this year. He needs to put together a full season of those flashes to be a Justin Smith type player.

You gotta remember, he's only played football for 2 or 3 years in his whole life. He's from somewhere else, and he only came here to be an olympic thrower with SMU's track coach, but their track program folded and the guy he wanted to work with is still the SMU S&C coach.

Razor 06-12-2012 05:28 AM

Love to see Sam Montgomery as your top rated DE. I think he's miles ahead of Mingo as a prospect. Also love the Lotulelei love. I like to compare him to Wilfork. Corey Lemonier should really be higher on that list. His athleticism will be very effective in the NFL.

Duffman57 06-12-2012 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Razor (Post 3030432)
Love to see Sam Montgomery as your top rated DE. I think he's miles ahead of Mingo as a prospect. Also love the Lotulelei love. I like to compare him to Wilfork. Corey Lemonier should really be higher on that list. His athleticism will be very effective in the NFL.

Wilfork's more of just a big body that eats space. He doesn't have that freakish mobility and body type that Star does. Star can stick in 1 on 1 coverage with RBs....dropping from the NT position (see UW game vs. Polk in the flats). I think Sopoaga is INSANELY underrated in many places. He's a top 3-5 NT, possibly 2 behind Wilfork (Ngata isn't in the pole or he would be #1), maybe Dareus, but he's not a true 0T NT anymore. Him and Raji are very close for that 2/3 spot IMO.

This is a VERY tentative list right now. I haven't seen much if any of most of these guys, so expect this to change A LOT over the summer and during the season.

Razor 06-12-2012 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duffman57 (Post 3030649)
Wilfork's more of just a big body that eats space. He doesn't have that freakish mobility and body type that Star does. Star can stick in 1 on 1 coverage with RBs....dropping from the NT position (see UW game vs. Polk in the flats). I think Sopoaga is INSANELY underrated in many places. He's a top 3-5 NT, possibly 2 behind Wilfork (Ngata isn't in the pole or he would be #1), maybe Dareus, but he's not a true 0T NT anymore. Him and Raji are very close for that 2/3 spot IMO.

Wilfork is so quick and agile, it's almost ridiculous to see a man his size do what he does. He's known as a space eater because that was a huge part of his job as a two-gapping 3-4 NT, but look at him in the 4-3 and you'll see another dimension of his game. I guess it's very subjective, but personally I really like the Wilfork comparison. Now, he doesn't have the same girth that Wilfork does but let's be honest here. Who actually thinks that Wilfork is 325? His playing weight is more like 355-360. So I can see why you're hesitant with this comparison but for now I'm sticking with it.

Duffman57 06-12-2012 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Razor (Post 3030681)
Wilfork is so quick and agile, it's almost ridiculous to see a man his size do what he does. He's known as a space eater because that was a huge part of his job as a two-gapping 3-4 NT, but look at him in the 4-3 and you'll see another dimension of his game. I guess it's very subjective, but personally I really like the Wilfork comparison. Now, he doesn't have the same girth that Wilfork does but let's be honest here. Who actually thinks that Wilfork is 325? His playing weight is more like 355-360. So I can see why you're hesitant with this comparison but for now I'm sticking with it.

I saw a Wilfork CLONE in BJ Raji. Their both real agile, but their more big, wider, squatty bodies. Whereas Star/Sopoaga or even Haloti Ngata are more lean guys who are VERY powerfully built. Raji/Wilfork are more of that true NT type, where with guys like Star/Sopo/Ngata you want to move them around and get strange matchups with them.

Star is about 6'4" 325, and Wilfork is about 6'1" and 355-365 like you said. Theres a BIG difference there, and you can see they play differently as well, though they are similar in that they are Big NT like bodies that are athletic enough to penetrate and even make plays in coverage.

SenorGato 06-14-2012 03:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duffman57 (Post 3030342)
Like i said, i dont think he's that good, but he's an absolute athletic freak with the best of them (Similar to JJ Watt 2 drafts ago). He's flashed potential to be that kind of player, but was largely unspectacular this year. He needs to put together a full season of those flashes to be a Justin Smith type player.

You gotta remember, he's only played football for 2 or 3 years in his whole life. He's from somewhere else, and he only came here to be an olympic thrower with SMU's track coach, but their track program folded and the guy he wanted to work with is still the SMU S&C coach.

Maybe he's similar in size and weight to Watt, but he's 4 years older entering the draft and not nearly as productive.

IMO, already one of the most overrated players in this draft.

You're underrating Wilfork as well...Guy is a future HOFer and the best DT in the NFL. OTOH I do think Star has a legit shot to be a stud prospect.

Duffman57 06-17-2012 02:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SenorGato (Post 3031874)
Maybe he's similar in size and weight to Watt, but he's 4 years older entering the draft and not nearly as productive.

IMO, already one of the most overrated players in this draft.

You're underrating Wilfork as well...Guy is a future HOFer and the best DT in the NFL. OTOH I do think Star has a legit shot to be a stud prospect.

Wow, i didn't realize he'll be 26 by the time he plays his first NFL game. Thats gonna hurt him a little.

You gotta remember Watt was only even decent for 1 year. Watt really broke out and did some dominating things his Sr. Year, and Hunt can easily do the same kind of things with his athletic skillset. Will he? We'll see about that, but if that Pitt game was any indication of what he can do on a consistnet basis, then he's a top 15 pick no doubt.

If he doesn't end up producing, its a whole nother story, and he's probably a 3rdish rounder based on potential alone.

I dont understand where the me underrating Wilfork is coming from. He's not the best DT in the game (Haloti Ngata), but he's an elite talent at NT. I'm just saying that him and Star have different skillsets. Wilfork is a playmaking NT, which just doesn't happen...EVER, and Star can be the same way, but just he frame and play style isn't there for the comparison. Its just too hard to compare someone playing at 6'1" 360 to someone thats 6'4' 320, you can see it, but Star just moves around and is so much more fluid than Wilfork in almost everything that he does... Not a knock on Wilfork, its just not what he does. Wilfork is still insanely athletic, as you can see by his INTs, but he doesn't have that athletic fluidity about him that Star does.

SenorGato 06-17-2012 03:55 AM

At worst Wilfork is tied with Ngata. Ngata just happens to have (at least?) 3 other superstar talents around him while Wilfork is the Pats' whole D.

You're somehow understating his athleticism while trying to praise it. Really beyond supporting cast Ngata has only age and height on Wilfork. I don't think Ngata's athletic fluidity is any better than Wilfork, and I have man crush on both.

Duffman57 06-17-2012 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SenorGato (Post 3033970)
At worst Wilfork is tied with Ngata. Ngata just happens to have (at least?) 3 other superstar talents around him while Wilfork is the Pats' whole D.

You're somehow understating his athleticism while trying to praise it. Really beyond supporting cast Ngata has only age and height on Wilfork. I don't think Ngata's athletic fluidity is any better than Wilfork, and I have man crush on both.

I didn't say Ngata's was, i said Lotulelei's was. Ngata is a different player to Wilfork, so its kinda hard to tell who's over who, i just Prefer Ngata for versatility purposes. And possibly because the Ravens are my 2nd favorite team and I go to Oregon...lol

SenorGato 06-19-2012 02:59 AM

Wilfork plays all the line positions Ngata does. Belichick has even had him at DE. I'd lean Ngata as being a homer pick, plus he's the hotter name now.

villagewarrior 06-19-2012 08:39 AM

Its unfortunate that Star didn't come out this year instead of next, I'd much rather see Lotulelei in KC than Dontari Poe.

Duffman57 06-26-2012 10:38 PM

Jarvis Jones

Height: 6’3”
Weight 241
School: Georgia
Positives:
-Next step down from elite burst
-Very good athlete
-Top end speed is elite
-Natural feel for pass rushing
-Great job cutting back and finding then shooting gaps when rushing the passer
-Closing speed is elite
-Does a very good job in coverage
-Heavy hands
-Solid but not spectacular vs. the run
-Very Physical player
-Instincts are near elite
-Body type is perfect for the position
-Can play both 4-3 SAM or 3-4 WOLB (vs. LT)
Negatives:
-Once a blocker gets in front of him, he’s done
-Once blocker is locked on, handwork seems to disappear
-Needs to add weight
-Seems to be strictly a speed rusher
-Seems to be either a sack or nothing guy, doesn’t force many pressures
-If blocker gets a hold of him early he’s finished
Player Comparison: Clay Matthews
He’s an outstanding pass rusher, but unless he adds weight and becomes a more physical edge rusher, then he wont be much more than a situational pass rusher. A great LB already, should develop into an even better pass rusher when he gains bulk assuming that he has the frame to do that and not lose explosiveness.

EloyHazleg51 06-28-2012 10:00 AM

Much appreciation for that wonderful information.
 
10/10 stars from me


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