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-   -   Best defense in NFL in 2012? (http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=54154)

J-Spot 10-16-2012 11:14 AM

Best defense in NFL in 2012?
 
Who has the best defense in the NFL so far in 2012?

Based on their ability to generate turnovers and score, and the fact that they have basically the best CB in the game right now (Tim Jennings) and probalby the best defensive line rotation, I'd vote the Chicago Bears.

However, the Seahawks are doing something amazing up there in Seattle. I'd also throw in a vote or two for the Cardinals and maybe even the Giants.

Malaka 10-16-2012 11:21 AM

Texans and 49ers just lost big. (Although the 49ers problems were more so bad field position thanks to Alex Smith INTs.

Giants have the talent to be the best in the league... but we have Perry Fewell so we're out.

The Cardinals have a very talented defense but other than Calais Campbell, and maybe Sam Acho, I don't really admire their pass rush.

For me it comes down to the Bears and Seahawks. The Bears create a lot of turnovers, but something about the Seahawks defense just calls to me. They have a fantastic secondary and a tenacity about them that I love. So Seattle gets my vote for now.

Todd Bertuzzi 10-16-2012 11:23 AM

It's still the 9ers. Bears are a close second, although I wouldn't say Jennings is basically the best CB in football. He and Tillman have been quietly getting it done for a while so it's nice to see them get some press this year. Houston rounds out the top 3 for me. Arizona and Seattle both have some great units as well but they're still a step below. Baltimore would be up there but they've been killed with injuries, first to Suggs and now Lewis, Webb and Ngata to a lesser extent.

A team to look out for going forward these next few seasons is St. Louis. Lot's of young talent on the defensive side and it's really showing this year.

At this point in time I'd go:
1. SF
2. Chicago
3. Houston
4. Seattle
5. Arizona

gpngc 10-16-2012 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Todd Bertuzzi (Post 3152837)
It's still the 9ers. Bears are a close second, although I wouldn't say Jennings is basically the best CB in football. He and Tillman have been quietly getting it done for a while so it's nice to see them get some press this year. Houston rounds out the top 3 for me. Arizona and Seattle both have some great units as well but they're still a step below. Baltimore would be up there but they've been killed with injuries, first to Suggs and now Lewis, Webb and Ngata to a lesser extent.

A team to look out for going forward these next few seasons is St. Louis. Lot's of young talent on the defensive side and it's really showing this year.

At this point in time I'd go:
1. SF
2. Chicago
3. Houston
4. Seattle
5. Arizona

Explain please what you mean by that?

Also, Seattle's defense is MUCH better than Houston's. It's really not close. Mark Sanchez put together multiple TD drives against Houston with 0 pro WRs. Rodgers just put up 40 on Houston whereas Seattle gave up 12 to him. While Watt is the best player on either defense, the only other guy I'd take on Seattle's defense over an existing starter is Cushing.

bigbluedefense 10-16-2012 11:51 AM

I went with Seattle. They are the most versatile defense listed. All the defenses listed have flaws, but I think Seattle is the most versatile of the bunch. They are suffocating vs the run, they have the best secondary in the NFL, a good underrated group of LBs, and they have pass rushers who can get after it.

It's close, I think the 3 best defenses in the leauge are all in the NFC West, but if I had to rank them in order, I'd go:

1. Seattle
2. San Fransisco
3. Arizona
4. NYG
5. Houston
6. Chicago

J-Spot 10-16-2012 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense (Post 3152871)
I went with Seattle. They are the most versatile defense listed. All the defenses listed have flaws, but I think Seattle is the most versatile of the bunch. They are suffocating vs the run, they have the best secondary in the NFL, a good underrated group of LBs, and they have pass rushers who can get after it.

It's close, I think the 3 best defenses in the leauge are all in the NFC West, but if I had to rank them in order, I'd go:

1. Seattle
2. San Fransisco
3. Arizona
4. NYG
5. Houston
6. Chicago


How can you possibly have Chicago outside the top 3?

That's crazy.

gpngc 10-16-2012 11:56 AM

St. Louis' is VERY good and no one knows it.

Adding some terrific pieces in the secondary, Quinn's taken a step forward, and Brockers really helps on the inside.

All they need is a safety or two and they'd be in the conversation easy.

I still think they can contend for the playoffs this year. That loss stung. Legatron didn't come through for once. Damn.

Sidenote: I've always enjoyed Dunbarr since BC.

bigbluedefense 10-16-2012 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J-Spot (Post 3152873)
How can you possibly have Chicago outside the top 3?

That's crazy.

They're old, lack great depth, and depend too much on turnovers.

J-Spot 10-16-2012 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gpngc (Post 3152877)
St. Louis' is VERY good and no one knows it.

Adding some terrific pieces in the secondary, Quinn's taken a step forward, and Brockers really helps on the inside.

All they need is a safety or two and they'd be in the conversation easy.

I still think they can contend for the playoffs this year. That loss stung. Legatron didn't come through for once. Damn.

Sidenote: I've always enjoyed Dunbarr since BC.


Jeff Fisher definitely inherited some very nice building blocks.

Their bookend pass rush is basically set for the next 5+ years (Quinn and Long), their MLB is set for the next 5+ years, and their CBs are probably set for the next few years as well.

Throw in the fact that Fisher will be able to double-dip in the first round of the draft for the next two years, and I wouldn't be shocked to see the Rams emerge as the powerhouse of the NFL in 2-3 years, especially defensively.

J-Spot 10-16-2012 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense (Post 3152888)
They're old, lack great depth, and depend too much on turnovers.

Old and lacking depth could be applied even more so to San Francisco and New York who you have rated higher.

I don't see how, simply because they force alot of turnovers, they suddenly "depend" on them. They'd be great even without the turnovers. They barely give up any passing TDs; their ANY/A on defense is out-of-this-world good.

abaddon41_80 10-16-2012 12:02 PM

Toss-up between the 49ers and Seahawks. I would lean slightly towards the 49ers because even their two "bad" games weren't terrible was they were completely dominant in the other four games. The Seahawks have a superior secondary, especially their corners, but the 49ers have the stronger front seven.

The Bears are third because I would like to see what they do against an offense that I consider good, only one team they have played is even in the top 20 in PPG. Seahawks have played two, the Packers and the Patriots, and every team the 49ers have played is in the top 20 in PPG

bigbluedefense 10-16-2012 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J-Spot (Post 3152894)
Old and lacking depth could be applied even more so to San Francisco and New York who you have rated higher.

I don't see how, simply because they force alot of turnovers, they suddenly "depend" on them. They'd be great even without the turnovers. They barely give up any passing TDs; their ANY/A on defense is out-of-this-world good.

We have infinitely more depth on defense than Chicago. Our defense is a walking bandage right now and they're still playing well bc of our depth.

San Fransisco is a whole lot younger too.

The 3 best players on Chicago are all old players: Briggs, Urlacher, and Peppers. And their scheme is heavily dependent on all 3 to be healthy. If 1 of them goes down, they lack the depth to overcome it.

And Cover 2 sucks.

Rosebud 10-16-2012 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J-Spot (Post 3152894)
Old and lacking depth could be applied even more so to San Francisco and New York who you have rated higher.

I don't see how, simply because they force alot of turnovers, they suddenly "depend" on them. They'd be great even without the turnovers. They barely give up any passing TDs; their ANY/A on defense is out-of-this-world good.

The ****? I like the Bears, even voted for them, but the Bears are up there because of Peppers, Briggs, Urlacher, Peanut, Melton and Jennings. The first 4 of those guys are on the wrong side of 30. The giants and 9ers are neither as reliant on as small a group of great players to carry their defense, nor are the players that carry their defense as old. Come on Thumper, you can do better.

AntoinCD 10-16-2012 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J-Spot (Post 3152894)
Old and lacking depth could be applied even more so to San Francisco and New York who you have rated higher.

I don't see how, simply because they force alot of turnovers, they suddenly "depend" on them. They'd be great even without the turnovers. They barely give up any passing TDs; their ANY/A on defense is out-of-this-world good.

Really???

The Giants go 4 deep with quality DEs. They also have a nice rotation inside at DT.

While I wouldn't say their LBs are excellent, they are pretty good and Williams looks real good. They also have depth. Boley, Williams, Blackburn and Herzlich. Most teams don't have 4 very good to decent guys at LB.

I would worry in New York if Rolle or Phillips went down at safety for any prolonged time, however they have lost like a million CBs already and are still putting out some capable guys.

The Giants have one of the deepest defenses in the NFL, and one of the most talented

J-Spot 10-16-2012 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rosebud (Post 3152904)
The ****? I like the Bears, even voted for them, but the Bears are up there because of Peppers, Briggs, Urlacher, Peanut, Melton and Jennings. The first 4 of those guys are on the wrong side of 30. The giants and 9ers are neither as reliant on as small a group of great players to carry their defense, nor are the players that carry their defense as old. Come on Thumper, you can do better.

49ers rely on Carlos Rogers and Justin Smith to the same extent, who are also on the wrong side of 30.

Of the three great pass rushers New York relies on, only one (Pierre Paul) is young.

The primary reason the Bears are great this year is because of the emergence of Tim Jennings (maybe the best player on their defense right now and the best CB in the NFL), who is young, and the play of Stephen Paea and Henry Melton in the middle, who are both young.

bigbluedefense 10-16-2012 12:15 PM

Great. I can guarantee you this Tim Jennings blow job he's dishing out is because of what he read on PFF.

J-Spot 10-16-2012 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense (Post 3152917)
Great. I can guarantee you this Tim Jennings blow job he's dishing out is because of what he read on PFF.

Or it could be because I actually watch Bears games.

abaddon41_80 10-16-2012 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J-Spot (Post 3152912)
49ers rely on Carlos Rogers and Justin Smith to the same extent, who are also on the wrong side of 30.

Of the three great pass rushers New York relies on, only one (Pierre Paul) is young.

The primary reason the Bears are great this year is because of the emergence of Tim Jennings (maybe the best player on their defense right now and the best CB in the NFL), who is young, and the play of Stephen Paea and Henry Melton in the middle, who are both young.

Rogers isn't even the 49ers best corner, he is probably the third best this season, and Justin Smith hasn't been Justin Smith so far, I would argue that McDonald has been just as good as him in 2012. The 49ers best defensive players this year are Patrick Willis, NaVorro Bowman, Ahmad Brooks, Aldon Smith and Dashon Goldson. All 28 or younger

Rosebud 10-16-2012 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense (Post 3152917)
Great. I can guarantee you this Tim Jennings blow job he's dishing out is because of what he read on PFF.

Probably. But Jennings has actually played really well, which still doesn't make him close to as important as Peppers, Melton, Urlacher and Briggs. Melton is the guy he should've highlighted as a young stud Bear, even though the bears have shown over the past few years that even without him, Peppers, Urlacher and Briggs is enough to ahve a great defense.

bigbluedefense 10-16-2012 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rosebud (Post 3152923)
Probably. But Jennings has actually played really well, which still doesn't make him close to as important as Peppers, Melton, Urlacher and Briggs. Melton is the guy he should've highlighted as a young stud Bear, even though the bears have shown over the past few years that even without him, Peppers, Urlacher and Briggs is enough to ahve a great defense.

Melton is the biggest contributor to their defense this year in terms of impact. We all knew Peppers, Briggs and Urlacher were gonna bring it week in and week out, but that push up the middle they're getting with Melton is making a huge difference.

And with Shea stepping up, they move Peppers and Melton inside and have Shea and Israel create pressure on the outside, and they generate great pressure with the front 4 bc of it.

Couple that with Briggs and Urlacher patrolling the middle of the field and taking that away, the umbrella shells in the secondary can hold up and be good enough to take away the deep pass and generate turnovers underneath.

Players make plays. The additions on the DL are the biggest contribution to their defense being great. Without that front 4 pressure, a Cover 2 defense is toast.

But I'm just not a fan of that defense.

J-Spot 10-16-2012 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rosebud (Post 3152923)
Probably. But Jennings has actually played really well, which still doesn't make him close to as important as Peppers, Melton, Urlacher and Briggs. Melton is the guy he should've highlighted as a young stud Bear, even though the bears have shown over the past few years that even without him, Peppers, Urlacher and Briggs is enough to ahve a great defense.

I did highlight Melton. With the emergence of Melton and Paea on the inside, and to some extent Wooten on the outside, the flexibility of rushing McClellin off the edge on passing downs, the solid play of veterans Peppers and Idonije the Bears have the best 4-3 front in the game and it's not even close.

The Giants, in comparison, at the this point basically only have Pierre Paul playing at a high level, and have very little depth behind their starters in terms of impact players.

Rosebud 10-16-2012 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J-Spot (Post 3152912)
49ers rely on Carlos Rogers and Justin Smith to the same extent, who are also on the wrong side of 30.

Of the three great pass rushers New York relies on, only one (Pierre Paul) is young.

The primary reason the Bears are great this year is because of the emergence of Tim Jennings (maybe the best player on their defense right now and the best CB in the NFL), who is young, and the play of Stephen Paea and Henry Melton in the middle, who are both young.

Note how only one of those three has been playing even well this season. So who cares if Osi and Tuck are old, JPP holds that line together, Kiwi's coming off his best game of the season so far because he got put back on the line, so the giants are covered for their old guys. If Osi or Tuck go down that sucks, but we're not screwed the way the Bears would be if any of Peppers, Urlacher or Briggs went down.

Plus the giants are good at defense because they're deep and talented all over not because a couple stars make the whole thing work. Joseph just had a great game against an excellent 9ers rushing attack, Canty's coming back, Jacquain Williams is a stud in the making, Boley's a great coverage backer and blitzer, our secondary could be second only to Seattle's if our top guys would ever be healthy at the same time as Rolle and Phillips are stud safeties, Prince has been excellent in coverage when he's been on the field, Hosley makes plays and Webster's quietly been one of the past 5 years' best corners.

Raiderz4Life 10-16-2012 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J-Spot (Post 3152925)
I did highlight Melton. With the emergence of Melton and Paea on the inside, and to some extent Wooten on the outside, the flexibility of rushing McClellin off the edge on passing downs, the solid play of veterans Peppers and Idonije the Bears have the best 4-3 front in the game and it's not even close.

The Giants, in comparison, at the this point basically only have Pierre Paul playing at a high level, and have very little depth behind their starters in terms of impact players.


:facepalm: fo realsies?

AntoinCD 10-16-2012 12:30 PM

Who the hell cares if guys are older if they are still performing? If youth = greatness then the Pats have the best secondary in the NFL

ShutDwn 10-16-2012 12:50 PM

I'd need to watch more of some of these teams but I love Seattle's defense. San Francisco has the best run defense but I can't get enough of the Seattle secondary.

The Bears are good but I'd like to see more games against good offenses. Not saying they're not proven, just not putting them in the top 3 yet. I could see Stafford helping them continue their turnover frenzy though.

The Giants are hard to peg in the regular season but they're extremely talented and built well to face top offenses.


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