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-   -   Aldon Smith or Von Miller? (http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=54591)

Punisher 11-20-2012 07:58 AM

Aldon Smith or Von Miller?
 
Both players are rising up the league sack sheet at record pace. Coming into the league Von was and still does get most of the hype. In your NFLDC expert poster opinion who ultimately is and/or will become the best player between the two and why?

AntoinCD 11-20-2012 08:00 AM

Von Miller because he can do it all. Smith is a great pass rusher and has improved in the run game but just because he beat up on Carimi and Webb I'm not puting him in the Von Miller class. Miller flat out dominates offenses in all areas, and he doesn't befenit from lining up next to a guy like Justin Smith either.

FUNBUNCHER 11-20-2012 08:05 AM

Coin flip but damn Aldon Smith is just so powerful at times on his pass rush. Sometimes he reminds me of Charles Haley.

will99890 11-20-2012 08:08 AM

As a diehard niner fan I should pick Aldon, but after watching Von Miller at A&M I knew he was going to be a great all around player in the league.

In college he was a great pass rusher as we all know, but his senior year he got moved from 4-3 DE to 3-4 OLB which allowed him to show off his fluidity in space and ability to drop back into zone. Those skills carried over very well to the pro game and are what really seperate him from Aldon Smith.

Both are great players, Von Miller is just more versatile.

abaddon41_80 11-20-2012 08:22 AM

As a 49ers fan I would still have to say Miller. I think he generates more consistent pressure and the other aspects of his game are also slightly better.

vidae 11-20-2012 08:54 AM

Von Miller for me and it isn't close. God it pains me to say that about a division rival but he's so good.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER (Post 3187450)
Coin flip but damn Aldon Smith is just so powerful at times on his pass rush. Sometimes he reminds me of Charles Haley.

Didn't Gruden say that exact thing last night? :njx:

farfromforgotten 11-20-2012 08:54 AM

I love you Aldon, but I chose Von as of right now as well.

LonghornsLegend 11-20-2012 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AntoinCD (Post 3187447)
Von Miller because he can do it all. Smith is a great pass rusher and has improved in the run game but just because he beat up on Carimi and Webb I'm not puting him in the Von Miller class. Miller flat out dominates offenses in all areas, and he doesn't befenit from lining up next to a guy like Justin Smith either.

Yea, because that's the only tackles Aldon Smith has ever made look foolish :facepalm: Then you fail to mention how Miller racked up 3 sacks vs those legendary tackles for the Chargers too right?


Also, Von Miller doesn't benefit from lining up across Elvis Dumervil who is still easily one of the best pass rushers in the league right now? If your going to make an argument for one guy, don't completely ignore how you could use the same points against the player your arguing for.

FUNBUNCHER 11-20-2012 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vidae (Post 3187493)
Von Miller for me and it isn't close. God it pains me to say that about a division rival but he's so good.



Didn't Gruden say that exact thing last night? :njx:

LOL. I was in and out of that game. If he said it, I missed that. Not surprised though since they have a very similar bodytype and are extremely powerful for their size.

AntoinCD 11-20-2012 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornsLegend (Post 3187500)
Yea, because that's the only tackles Aldon Smith has ever made look foolish :facepalm: Then you fail to mention how Miller racked up 3 sacks vs those legendary tackles for the Chargers too right?


Also, Von Miller doesn't benefit from lining up across Elvis Dumervil who is still easily one of the best pass rushers in the league right now? If your going to make an argument for one guy, don't completely ignore how you could use the same points against the player your arguing for.

I'm not doing that at all. Aldon Smith is a very good player but this wasn't even considered an arguement until last night. It's the same in the Kaepernick thread. He had a great game, but let's calm down he's just not on Von's level.

And playing on the opposite side of the line is completely different then playing beside someone. Aldon can basically peel off Smith's hip as he is occupying multiple blockers.

Justin Smith is so dominant that if a guard blocks him he will win with either power or speed. He commands double blocks! On the same side of the line as Smith most of the time. You have to pick your poison here.

And as I mentioned above Miller is more than just a pass rusher. He can drop, he can blow up the run game etc

Ness 11-20-2012 09:42 AM

I don't know. I haven't seen Miller play as much as Smith. I'm not going to ride the "he's just not on the same level" card though some people want to play.

Jvig43 11-20-2012 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ness (Post 3187525)
I don't know. I haven't seen Miller play as much as Smith. I'm not going to ride the "he's just not on the same level" card though some people want to play.

Just like the Vernon Davis and Rob Gronkowski issue, it's not "night and day".

Only this issue is night and day.

LonghornsLegend 11-20-2012 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AntoinCD (Post 3187515)
I'm not doing that at all. Aldon Smith is a very good player but this wasn't even considered an arguement until last night. It's the same in the Kaepernick thread. He had a great game, but let's calm down he's just not on Von's level.

And playing on the opposite side of the line is completely different then playing beside someone. Aldon can basically peel off Smith's hip as he is occupying multiple blockers.

Justin Smith is so dominant that if a guard blocks him he will win with either power or speed. He commands double blocks! On the same side of the line as Smith most of the time. You have to pick your poison here.

And as I mentioned above Miller is more than just a pass rusher. He can drop, he can blow up the run game etc



Yea but it's actually not the same thing. Aldon Smith has been really good since he has been drafted, what your saying would make more sense if this was the first time anybody has ever heard of him. Or his first multi sack game ever. I don't see any correlation what so ever with the Kaepernick situation. Unless you actually think this is Aldon Smith's first good game, which is pretty strange for a guy approaching 30 sacks well before his first 2 seasons are up.


Also Justin Smith and Aldon Smith are on opposite sides a ton of the time, the 'lol' play of the game Aldon was on the left, Justin was on the right side, which is the case a bunch of times. The point is that both guys have a legitimate threat on the defense with them to attack the QB, it's not like Justin Smith makes his life easier because he's stronger but Dumervil doesn't because he's fast. I'm not even arguing that Aldon is better, just that your trying to use a bunch of generalizations about Smith that Miller has basically the same things in his favor.

Rosebud 11-20-2012 10:05 AM

This isn't very close for me but I loved Von Miller coming out, n he has done nothing but match the incredible expectations I had for him. Doom's a fine partner in crime but the Denver d has no business being as effective as they have been. That Front 7 is a joke outside of those two and the secondary isn't great either. But Miller n Doom make it work. Alison's a beast, but he's doing less with a lot more support.

Splat 11-20-2012 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ness (Post 3187525)
Just like the Vernon Davis and Rob Gronkowski issue, it's not "night and day".

That's cute.

AntoinCD 11-20-2012 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornsLegend (Post 3187530)
Yea but it's actually not the same thing. Aldon Smith has been really good since he has been drafted, what your saying would make more sense if this was the first time anybody has ever heard of him. Or his first multi sack game ever. I don't see any correlation what so ever with the Kaepernick situation. Unless you actually think this is Aldon Smith's first good game, which is pretty strange for a guy approaching 30 sacks well before his first 2 seasons are up.


Also Justin Smith and Aldon Smith are on opposite sides a ton of the time, the 'lol' play of the game Aldon was on the left, Justin was on the right side, which is the case a bunch of times. The point is that both guys have a legitimate threat on the defense with them to attack the QB, it's not like Justin Smith makes his life easier because he's stronger but Dumervil doesn't because he's fast. I'm not even arguing that Aldon is better, just that your trying to use a bunch of generalizations about Smith that Miller has basically the same things in his favor.

Yeah I'm not meaning to come across and state that Smith has only come to people's attention after last night. I mean the guy has the most sacks in NFL history through 26 games. However before last night this wasn't an arguement and that's not a disrepect to Smith it's more of a testament to Miller.

I do understand that at times the two Smith's will line up on opposite sides, however I would say at least 70% of the time it is the same side. I still maintain it is easier to protect against two great outside guys than one great outside guy and a great interior guy on the same side.

If the DE/OLB beats the OT the QB is more likely to step up in the pocket rather than run into the other DE. Likewise, if the interior is pushed then the QB can't step up giving the outside guy futher depth on his arc to get to the QB

AntoinCD 11-20-2012 10:34 AM

Aw that sucks for the second time in two days I thought I was being discriminated against for spelling in English English, but apparently in this case I'm just stupid :facepalm:

Iamcanadian 11-20-2012 10:35 AM

I'm a Miller lover and predicted the HOF for him mid-season last year, however Smith is no slouch either, yes, he plays on a better defense which gives him more 1 on 1 opportunities, but he is very productive and will no doubt have the most sacks in NFL history for first 2 seasons, that's not something you can just ignore. He is also on a HOF pace and the way he played last night showed off his ability to take over a game and dominate.
Smith was very raw coming out of Missouri and his best years are still ahead of him, Miller was far more developed, so I won't rule out Smith as a candidate to match Miller's career just yet.

farfromforgotten 11-20-2012 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by njx9 (Post 3187557)
this.

it's funny how almost directly the 49ers are apeing the packers from last year.

I believe that is "aping". And what exactly do you mean?

vidae 11-20-2012 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ness (Post 3187525)
Just like the Vernon Davis and Rob Gronkowski issue, it's not "night and day".

:njx:

Quote:

Originally Posted by njx9 (Post 3187557)
this.

it's funny how almost directly the 49ers are apeing the packers from last year.

It's hilariously annoying. But still hilarious I guess.

farfromforgotten 11-20-2012 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by njx9 (Post 3187587)
that's what i get for using urban dictionary for my spell check.

and i mean, every time a player plays well, we get a thread about how he's the best in the nfl, or has an argument for it, no matter what. *shrug* standard nfldc pattern.

Got ya. It should be noted that this thread and the Kaep thread were not started by 49er fans. Also, 3 out of the 4 49er fans that have posted in this thread have voted for Miller. Not sure about Ness.

Jvig43 11-20-2012 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by farfromforgotten (Post 3187594)
Got ya. It should be noted that this thread and the Kaep thread were not started by 49er fans. Also, 3 out of the 4 49er fans that have posted in this thread have voted for Miller. Not sure about Ness.

Its generally 1 or 2 posters that give the bunch a bad name. In these cases just assume when we say 9er fans we mean Ness and Abaddon (maybe that other one who can't speak english, if I could understand what he was saying half the time I'm sure he'd be in that group).

Punisher 11-20-2012 11:19 AM

I made this thread to settle a bet between a co worker. Thanks guys

bigbluedefense 11-20-2012 11:54 AM

One of my pet peeves on this forum is, when we compare 2 players, often times we feel the need to talk down on one guy in an attempt to talk up the other.

Both these guys are studs. I'm gonna take Von bc Von is the better all around player right now.

But part of me thinks Aldon will have the better long term career bc of his length. But it's so close to call. Both of these guys are complete studs in the making.

LonghornsLegend 11-20-2012 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by njx9 (Post 3187587)
and i mean, every time a player plays well, we get a thread about how he's the best in the nfl, or has an argument for it, no matter what. *shrug* standard nfldc pattern.

Yea but if we are honest with ourselves, isn't there just as much overreaction the other way? Like I've also noticed just as many people going "geez everybody is trying to put Kaepernick in the HOF" and "here everybody goes with the omggzzz kapernickzzz" post litered all over the place, when 98% of the post I've seen discussing Kaep was just honest feedback about how he looked yesterday. I'd probably say more people were overreacting the other way.


Same for Aldon Smith, I think(or at least I thought) people were recognizing him as one of the best young pass rushers in the NFL for awhile now, not just because he destroyed Webb and Carimi. While what your saying does typically happen with how overreactionary everything is, and ESPN going nuts over the next new thing, neither one of those threads were started in a trolling fashion or had a bunch of trolling post about either player being so awesome.


But just like nfldc overreacts to that type of stuff, there is still the large group who acts like any discussion that takes place is a huge overreaction. I think talking about how Kaep looked, or this argument here, is completely different then watching Peyton throw a million first half picks and watching everyone talk about how he's finished.


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