Draft Countdown Forums

Draft Countdown Forums (http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/index.php)
-   Pro Football (http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=44)
-   -   Do the Rams regret trading RG3? (http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=54787)

bigbuc 12-04-2012 06:20 PM

Do the Rams regret trading RG3?
 
Now the trade was flipping 1st rounders and then getting two 1st round and one 2nd round pick. I don't think this trade can be judged until we see how the Rams use the extra picks and what players the get with them. But do you guys think if they could take it back today they would? And would trade Bradford and keep the second overall pick being RG3.

jrdrylie 12-04-2012 06:26 PM

I do not like Sam Bradford at all and I don't think he will ever come close to the number one pick status, but I say no. First, Bradford had a huge contract so they would have been paying a ton of money for a guy on the bench. Second, while Bradford isn't great, he hasn't been bad enough to justify giving up on him after two years. And lastly, yes, RGIII is playing well right now, but look at history. Newton and Young had stellar rookie years but people caught on to them and they suffered huge sophomore slumps. Michael Vick looked great when he first started for the Eagles. People caught on to him too. That is what happens with scrambling QBs. I don't think his stats will be nearly as fantastic next year.

mdmgrand 12-04-2012 06:30 PM

Actually I believe there was rumors of the Browns considering to trade a few picks for Bradford... If they could've gotten the 22nd, a future 1st, and a third for Bradford that would've been optimum.

At the time though you can't fault them, they can really build their team with elite talent from those picks from Washington. Bradford had a pretty decent rookie season, I think they owe him some time with improved receivers and pass blockers.

Halsey 12-04-2012 06:35 PM

Bradford is still only 25. It's too early for the Rams to give up on him. Many people seem married to the idea that he's a bust, but I don't think he's as bad as they want to believe.

Malaka 12-04-2012 06:38 PM

Honestly, I see in Bradford I see Alex Smith 2.0 in terms of career path. Although, Fisher may be able to provide him some stability that Smith never had.

ChiFan24 12-04-2012 06:38 PM

Depends on what they could have gotten for Bradford. As good as RG3 has been, he landed with the perfect coach, and eventually he's going to have to make adjustments as defenses figure out how to play him. He also comes with the injury risk. So, yeah, he's probably better than Bradford. But combined with the haul the Rams got, the fact that Shanahan >>>> Schotty, and the fact Bradford might actually be a good QB going forward, it's not such a simple answer.

armageddon 12-04-2012 09:33 PM

Bradford is making great strides. Remember, this is his 3rd offensive system in 3 years. He has very few weapons and a poor o-line. When he has Amendola healthy, Sam lights it up. Imagine if he had a true #1 WR? Also, last years high ankle sprain really set him back. Practically ruined his sophomore season. He throws a beautiful ball and is very accurate. The only problem is, his WR's seldom get separation. He has been fighting an up hill battle his entire career in St.Louis so far. But there is no questioning his talent. He has great talent. All the tools.

gpngc 12-04-2012 10:23 PM

I think they do.

Regardless of how well Bradford is/can/will do, RGIII is on a different level.

Immediately, he's the best player on the field. Bradford might be pretty good, but he doesn't have THAT going for him.

It sucks because if Bradford's contract was anywhere near workable, they probably would have traded him or just kept both.

tjsunstein 12-04-2012 10:30 PM

Anyone saying they do without knowing what comes out of those picks that they got in return isnt true to the draft.

gpngc 12-04-2012 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tjsunstein (Post 3201501)
Anyone saying they do without knowing what comes out of those picks that they got in return isnt true to the draft.

They are going to be a bunch of mid/late first-round picks... the chances that they turn out to equal the trade value of a franchise, possible top-5 franchise QB are extremely thin.

armageddon 12-04-2012 10:55 PM

The Rams picks are already paying dividends. The Rams had one of the worst D's in the league, now they have nearly a top 10 D. Instead of taking RG3, the Rams have taken (with the help of trade downs)

Brockers (beast and future pro bowler)
Jenkins (great CB with pro bowl potential. Athletic freak)
Pead (meh, but we'll see. Great speed)
OG Watkins (huge road grader. injured. Potential starter)

2013 1st round ? (probably between 18-22 range) Stud WR or Interior o-lineman.
2014 1st rounder ?


Even though RG3 is amazing, this trade could be a franchise changer for the Rams. With RG3 in St.Louis, he may never have had the chance to be surrounded with enough talent.

Mufasa 12-04-2012 11:10 PM

If Griffin becomes a top 4-8 QB, as it looks like he can it doesn't matter what the Rams get with their picks. A top QB is way more valuable than a handful of good players at other positions.

armageddon 12-04-2012 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mufasa (Post 3201551)
If Griffin becomes a top 4-8 QB, as it looks like he can it doesn't matter what the Rams get with their picks. A top QB is way more valuable than a handful of good players at other positions.


It depends on how well Bradford keeps progressing. If he gets a true #1 WR to go along with Amendola, Givens and Quick, Bradford is going to be really good. The Rams have the picks to address WR and o-line in this draft. Warmack and Keenan Allen?

FUNBUNCHER 12-04-2012 11:45 PM

If Bradford hasn't lost his confidence, I think the RGIII trade finally gave the Rams the leverage to build a force-field Oline to protect Sam and give him the kind of dynamic targets he needs to be successful.

Saints-Tigers 12-05-2012 12:07 AM

Great QB with less picks, or mediocre QB with great weapons? (assuming their other picks pan out).

Always go with the great QB. Not saying Griffin is there yet, but he's shown way more this year than Sam has in his entire football career, and he has substantially more upside.

armageddon 12-05-2012 12:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saints-Tigers (Post 3201581)
Great QB with less picks, or mediocre QB with great weapons? (assuming their other picks pan out).

Always go with the great QB. Not saying Griffin is there yet, but he's shown way more this year than Sam has in his entire football career, and he has substantially more upside.



A little early to call Sam mediocre. Joe Montana wouldn't succeed with Sam's o-line and Danny Amendola as your main weapon.

Saints-Tigers 12-05-2012 12:14 AM

Define succeed? He wouldn't win a superbowl, but he'd look a hell of a lot better than Bradford, because he's much better at playing Quarterback. Like most starters.

Mediocre is generous, implying that he's middle of the pack in terms of starters. He's not Sanchez or Gabbert bad, I'll give him that.

Mufasa 12-05-2012 12:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by armageddon (Post 3201585)
A little early to call Sam mediocre. Joe Montana wouldn't succeed with Sam's o-line and Danny Amendola as your main weapon.

********. All of the current top QBs could succeed with it. Maybe not win the Super Bowl, but they could still put up really good stats and make the playoffs.

That's the value of having a great QB

ph90702 12-05-2012 12:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jrdrylie (Post 3201186)
I do not like Sam Bradford at all and I don't think he will ever come close to the number one pick status, but I say no. First, Bradford had a huge contract so they would have been paying a ton of money for a guy on the bench. Second, while Bradford isn't great, he hasn't been bad enough to justify giving up on him after two years. And lastly, yes, RGIII is playing well right now, but look at history. Newton and Young had stellar rookie years but people caught on to them and they suffered huge sophomore slumps. Michael Vick looked great when he first started for the Eagles. People caught on to him too. That is what happens with scrambling QBs. I don't think his stats will be nearly as fantastic next year.

Vick, Newton, and Young weren't completeing 70% of their passes while averaging over 8 yards per attempting. Don't forget about his 100 quarterback rating either. I have a hard time seeing RGIII regressing considering how good he has been. He's light years ahead of the three guys you mentioned.

holt_bruce81 12-05-2012 12:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saints-Tigers (Post 3201588)
Define succeed? He wouldn't win a superbowl, but he'd look a hell of a lot better than Bradford, because he's much better at playing Quarterback. Like most starters.

Mediocre is generous, implying that he's middle of the pack in terms of starters. He's not Sanchez or Gabbert bad, I'll give him that.


LOL is this serious? Bradford has looked pretty damn good this season actually. He's faced the most top 10 defenses this year (7) and in those games he has thrown 122/215 (56.7%) for 7 touchdowns with 6 interceptions, and has a record of 4-2-1 against them. To compare, Matt Ryan has faced 2 top 10 defenses and has thrown 2 Touchdowns with 5 picks. RG3 has also faced two 2/0.

He's a good Quarterback, he just has taken awhile to progress, Him and Eli's first three years in the NFL are pretty much identical, with Sams being a little better.

WCH 12-05-2012 01:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by holt_bruce81 (Post 3201602)
LOL is this serious? Bradford has looked pretty damn good this season actually. He's faced the most top 10 defenses this year (7) and in those games he has thrown 122/215 (56.7%) for 7 touchdowns with 6 interceptions, and has a record of 4-2-1 against them. To compare, Matt Ryan has faced 2 top 10 defenses and has thrown 2 Touchdowns with 5 picks. RG3 has also faced two 2/0.

He's a good Quarterback, he just has taken awhile to progress, Him and Eli's first three years in the NFL are pretty much identical, with Sams being a little better.

This sounds familiar...

Ness 12-05-2012 02:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by armageddon (Post 3201585)
A little early to call Sam mediocre. Joe Montana wouldn't succeed with Sam's o-line and Danny Amendola as your main weapon.

Eh. Montana had Dwight Clark and Feddie Solomon as his main receivers hi first few seasons. Montana made those guys shine, especially Clark who was not very fast.

The thing with Bradford from what I've seen, is that well, I haven't seen the "flashes" of greatness. Good quarterbacks make players around them better sometimes. I don't think at this point that St.Louis is so devoid of weapons that it's impossible for Bradford to succeed. Givens and Amendola are decent targets.

Then you take a look at guys like Aaron Rodgers and Ben Roethlisberger who take a beating behind their lines and they're still making plays.

Also, it's Bradford's third season and he's with a new coaching staff and he still isn't averaging 7 yards per pass attempt. Not a good sign.

OzTitan 12-05-2012 02:36 AM

I don't fully buy the Bradford contract excuse because it could have been absorbed easily enough - I say this without looking at the specifics, but the cap is so easy to navigate these days.

I think the offer was too good to pass up but if Griffin doesn't suffer any significant set backs it's hard to say it was a good move. Personally I doubt Fisher wanted the pressure of his guy at QB from day 1 anyway - by staying with Bradford, I think he bought at the very least a year or two after any move is made at QB, if it comes to that.

wogitalia 12-05-2012 02:38 AM

I'm not a big fan of Bradford but he really is a guy that needs a line, he isn't Rodgers or Roethlisberger where he will thrive without strong and consistent protection. He also isn't a Manning or Brady type who will elevate a lines play with his quick decision making and quick release.

For me he is more like Rivers, Ryan or Eli, if you give him a good pocket and good targets he can be a damaging player. He isn't flat out elite but with the right talent around him you can certainly push for a SB and even win one if things fall right. Of course he doesn't have either the line or the targets right now and he isn't going to elevate those guys. He can be a few notches above a system QB (so put a good line and good receivers and you have a very good offense).

As for the question at hand... Bradford is really the key part to it, if he can improve further and they can get him the pieces that he needs, then they can win the trade. If they don't do that over the next two years and RGIII doesn't fall to pieces then they will regret the trade, RGIII also has that added off field aspect that they are losing out on.

FUNBUNCHER 12-05-2012 03:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by njx9 (Post 3201631)
yes, newton's 60% completion percentage, with 7.8 y/a, in an offense less perfectly suited to his skillset, was so much worse. vick at 63%, 8.1, and a +100 rating? totally different. :njx:

Huh?

Chudzinski brought many of Auburn's read option plays to the Panthers and incorporated them into his playbook. He built that offense around what Cam did well in college. It fit Cam like a glove.

Vick didn't sniff 63% completions until he was released from prison. He never completed more than 56% of his passes as a Falcon.

Yeah, what RGIII is doing passing the football IS totally different than what Cam/Vick/VY did as rookies.

Other than Cam it's not even really comparable, and even he lacks RGIII's accuracy.

Back to the OP, I think Bradford is a guy that needs a borderline great oline, a solid run game and better size/speed at WR if the Rams ever hope to maximize their investment in him.

WHen the SKins played the Rams, Bradford made Amendola look like Steve Smith and he was literally the only guy who consistently got open.

Some QBs elevate mediocre talent around them, like Tom Brady or Peyton.
Some QBs are better suited for maximizing the talent surrounding them, like Drew Brees.

Most HOF QBs had very talented supporting casts on offense. It's the new breed of elite NFL QBs who are winning with JAGs at the skill positions and along the oline.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:36 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.