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-   -   Cam Newton vs RG3 (http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=54884)

dregolll 12-12-2012 11:14 AM

Cam Newton vs RG3
 
With the resurgence of Cam Newton in the past 4 weeks and the overall hype that RG3 has gotten this season, I would like to know who would you start you franchise with if your were an owner. Everything can be factored in this decision. Me personally, Iím taking Cam all day, everyday because of the sheer physical tools that he possess. I think his attitude has been overblown and also taken out of context. Iím not taking anything from RG3, heís a great talent but I donít think he can touch Cam. He also comes across as arrogant himself. So who would you take to start your expansion team.

FUNBUNCHER 12-12-2012 11:20 AM

I think Robert is more mature than Cam will ever be and will be a steady presence for any franchise he's a member of throughout his career.

I wouldn't trade Cam for anyone either, but he really needs to understand being a leader isn't just all smiles when your team is winning.
You have to be able to inspire and motivate your teammates as a QB when your backs are against the wall. Your QB can't go into his shell and pout like it's Pop Warner.

BTW, tools wise, the only thing Cam has on RGIII is size.

If their careers play out they way they should, we'll all get a chance to see both these guys go head to head when it's lose and go home in the playoffs.

EDIT: Obviously I chose...!


Halsey 12-12-2012 11:25 AM

This one is tough because RG3 has already taken some hard hits in the NFL and I worry he could suffer a season ending injury at any point. Cam seems like he's built about as well for taking NFL hits as a QB can be. I haven't ever heard of Cam even having a minor injury. Obviously the concerns are reversed when it comes to leadership questions.

cmarq83 12-12-2012 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER (Post 3209773)
BTW, tools wise, the only thing Cam has on RGIII is size.

I think Cam has a stronger arm as well. He needs to work on his accuracy on shorter passes though. RG3's body will not hold up if he keeps running like he does, and we're going to have to see if he can change his style without taking away his breathtaking ability to run which opens up so much for him in the passing game.

If you take personality out of the equation I'd take Cam since he has the highest ceiling of Luck, RG3, and himself. He's already an above average starting QB in the NFL, and with his tools he's going to have a hard time playing worse than he is as a raw player right now. However, a QB is the leader of your team, and while I think it's blown way out of proportion by the media. Like you said Cam is not the steadying presence RG3 is.

Babylon 12-12-2012 01:34 PM

Can i say Andrew Luck.

Of the two mentioned, Griffin's size and willingness to take hits would scare me going forward. I also like Newton better to stand tall in the pocket. I think i'd be comfortable going with Cam.

Denver Bronco56 12-12-2012 01:54 PM

I would take RGIII, and its not even close...


Quarterbacking isnt about the strongest arm, or size etc.. Look at Drew Brees when talking about size, or 36 year old Manning when talking about arm strength.

It's about decision making and being smart with the ball. When you talk about the top QB's they are usually guys with low interception numbers and are smart with the ball, putting their teams in the best position to win.

Sure does RGIII's injuries to this point worry me...yeah.

But he is very smart with the ball and that is only going to improve with better understanding of the offense and how to read NFL defenses. Newton is obviously bigger, and might have the bigger arm, having a big arm sure did help JaMarcus Russel :njx: another example would go look up Brett Farves stats and look how many interceptions he has..

RGIII in Mike Shannahan's offense is a perfect fit, mobility on the bootlegs and whatnot and he is a "smarter" QB in the sense of not forcing the ball and getting turnovers

bigbluedefense 12-12-2012 01:59 PM

I'm going with Griff bc I think Griff will develop into a better passer than Cam.

Physical tools are a wash to me. Cam is stronger but Griff is faster. Both have big arms. Both can do things most qbs can't. But what will separate them is who develops into the better pocket passer. I think Griff will be that guy.

Trogdor 12-12-2012 02:05 PM

Meh. Right now I'd take Cam but in a few years when RGIII develops into an NFL passer I would certainly take him.

I can't take RGIII over him now due to his numbers when asked to pass on 3rd and 10+ and that scheme.



So when the 'Skins ask RGIII to throw on 3rd and 10+ he converts 2/35 or 5.71% of the time. When runs are included RGIII ups the percentage to 11.48%. Luck by comparison sits at 22/57 or 38.6% when you include only passing attempts. Hell even Wilson is more efficient in that situation.

Note: I am not taking away from RGIII's super efficient and impressive campaign. Give RGIII a few years and I'd take him handily over Cam. He's had immense physical gifts and is a very intelligent QB so he will grow in those areas.

Ghost of Juice 12-12-2012 02:14 PM

I like them both but this is a tough one for me. They both can sling it but RGIII just seems to have pinpoint accuracy and Cam isn't there yet. Alot of Cam's inaccuracy seems to be his footwork so that is something he should be able to fix. RGIII does seem very mature but I think some things about Cam's maturity issues are overblown. All I see from his attitude is that he hates to lose and wants to be the greatest of all time, I don't know about the rest of you but thats what I would want my QB to act like. Sure there are things he should be more mature about but lets not forget he's only 23 years old so he is just a kid. The big thing for me that separates them a bit is Cam's size. Not only is he the size of a defensive end but he is also very smart when he runs the ball, he rarely takes big hits in the open field. So I would go with Cam but not by alot, either way I would love to have either guy as my franchise QB.

MetSox17 12-12-2012 02:52 PM

I have a crush on Cam right now so i'm gonna go with him. Honestly i don't think you can go wrong with either one, the biggest concern between the two players combined is RG3's durability. Before the draft that was my biggest concern with him and nothing has changed. I think Cam's raw ability as a passer has ridiculous upside. Just imagine Matt Stafford last year with Cam's athletic ability.

Cigaro 12-12-2012 02:55 PM

Guys, Cam Newton is the next Vince Young, haven't we already concluded this?

Seriously though, obviously I'm going to pick Newton. But trying to be unbiased, I can concede that the only thing that Newton has on Griffin is arm strength and size. Size is critical however, for their playing style, because as many have mentioned, both are open field runners willing to take hits, yet Newton is built much better to absorb them than Griffin. Overall, both will be lighting up the league for years to come.

Cigaro 12-12-2012 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denver Bronco56 (Post 3209895)
I would take RGIII, and its not even close...


Quarterbacking isnt about the strongest arm, or size etc.. Look at Drew Brees when talking about size, or 36 year old Manning when talking about arm strength.

It's about decision making and being smart with the ball. When you talk about the top QB's they are usually guys with low interception numbers and are smart with the ball, putting their teams in the best position to win.

Sure does RGIII's injuries to this point worry me...yeah.

But he is very smart with the ball and that is only going to improve with better understanding of the offense and how to read NFL defenses. Newton is obviously bigger, and might have the bigger arm, having a big arm sure did help JaMarcus Russel :njx: another example would go look up Brett Farves stats and look how many interceptions he has..

RGIII in Mike Shannahan's offense is a perfect fit, mobility on the bootlegs and whatnot and he is a "smarter" QB in the sense of not forcing the ball and getting turnovers

Brett Favre is considered one of the best quarterbacks to ever play. I'd certainly be happy if Newton played at his level.

G Mobile 12-12-2012 03:10 PM

Newton has the better tools to be an NFL QB with his height/arm/size, but Griffin's tools will never be a liability or hold him back so its not really an issue.

I think what separates them is from the neck up. RG3 is a guy that I don't have to worry about as a leader. He isn't going to call out my coaching staff and GM in a press conference. Newton is immature and has a huge ego; this might not actually affect his career, but with Griffin it is a complete non issue.

Both guys still have a lot of work to do to develop as a standard drop back passer in a traditional nfl offense. The read option plays are really helpful to get some early success while they develop, but those plays won't be a long term solution.

San Diego Chicken 12-12-2012 03:14 PM

RG3 is the better player, but he has a longer injury history than QB's who have been in the NFL for 10+ years. His body is built like a track star, not a QB. I would be genuinely concerned about how he'd hold up.

SchizophrenicBatman 12-12-2012 05:38 PM

I hate the injury prone excuse. I've heard people pull it in Luck vs RG3 debates and it just seems intellectually lazy to me. They cop out and use that instead of actually going in depth on the strengths and flaws of the QBs.

That said, as a Panthers fan I'm not sure I would want our FO to trade Cam for RG3 straight up for that exact reason. And I absolutely believe RG3 is and will be the better player. I don't think he's as good as his stats currently reflect and won't stay at their current rate once teams adjust to that offense - but I think he passes better than Cam, and ultimately that matters more.

I just wouldn't want anything to do with having a QB starting 10 games a year like I saw Vick do in Atlanta. Ultimately he was sunk because of his personal issues but the reason the Falcons were never consistent with him is because he couldn't stay on the field.

Caulibflower 12-12-2012 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SchizophrenicBatman (Post 3210161)
I hate the injury prone excuse. I've heard people pull it in Luck vs RG3 debates and it just seems intellectually lazy to me. They cop out and use that instead of actually going in depth on the strengths and flaws of the QBs.

It's not intellectually lazy. You think about it. If you're picking between two guys, and one is more likely to be injured, doesn't that factor into your decision? It certainly would for me.

In fact, I think it does. Griffin's got a better media personality, but way too many people try to turn "Newton is cocky" into "Newton doesn't work hard." I have yet to be blown away with Griffin as a passer besides his arm strength, and the same is basically true for Newton, so for me it comes down to running ability, and I'm more confident that I'll have Newton for every game than with RGIII. Quite seriously, I think RGIII is going to tear an ACL or something before too long. It only takes that one hit, and he really exposes himself sometimes. Cam's just so much bigger, and protects himself a lot better as well.

Miaoww 12-12-2012 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caulibflower (Post 3210174)
It's not intellectually lazy. You think about it. If you're picking between two guys, and one is more likely to be injured, doesn't that factor into your decision? It certainly would for me.

In fact, I think it does. Griffin's got a better media personality, but way too many people try to turn "Newton is cocky" into "Newton doesn't work hard." I have yet to be blown away with Griffin as a passer besides his arm strength, and the same is basically true for Newton, so for me it comes down to running ability, and I'm more confident that I'll have Newton for every game than with RGIII. Quite seriously, I think RGIII is going to tear an ACL or something before too long. It only takes that one hit, and he really exposes himself sometimes. Cam's just so much bigger, and protects himself a lot better as well.

I agree with all of this except the media personality part - Griffin's personality grates.

He's also going to miss a lot of time in this league - he's not built to take hits. He's already missed one game and parts of others.

jsagan77 12-12-2012 11:15 PM

Griff. One thing I haven't seen mentioned is his .35 second release (same as Arod). His decision making and accuracy rank up there with the best in the NFL already and when you add in that he has AP's explosiveness 0-15 in 1sec) and all the tools upstairs and great leadership ability, he's simply amazing. Sure he's few inches shorter than Cam and 20lbs lighter but in no way is he undersized for the position it just so happens Cam is a freak in his own right. The injuries are a concern but easily fixed and you can see he's sliding faster and getting out of bounds more as well.

jsagan77 12-12-2012 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmarq83 (Post 3209781)
I think Cam has a stronger arm as well. He needs to work on his accuracy on shorter passes though. RG3's body will not hold up if he keeps running like he does, and we're going to have to see if he can change his style without taking away his breathtaking ability to run which opens up so much for him in the passing game.

If you take personality out of the equation I'd take Cam since he has the highest ceiling of Luck, RG3, and himself. He's already an above average starting QB in the NFL, and with his tools he's going to have a hard time playing worse than he is as a raw player right now. However, a QB is the leader of your team, and while I think it's blown way out of proportion by the media. Like you said Cam is not the steadying presence RG3 is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miaoww (Post 3210559)
I agree with all of this except the media personality part - Griffin's personality grates.

He's also going to miss a lot of time in this league - he's not built to take hits. He's already missed one game and parts of others.

He missed part of the Atl game and a like 5-6 plays of the Ravens game. I dont recall others though?

Caulibflower 12-12-2012 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miaoww (Post 3210559)
I agree with all of this except the media personality part - Griffin's personality grates.

Frankly, I'm not a fan of his personality either, but general perception of him seems more positive than Newton overall, and most people who don't like Newton want to talk about his intangibles first.

jsagan77 12-12-2012 11:40 PM

I don't mind either personality. They're both themselves and that's important. But I did read something about Cam being an ass durung the Pro Bowl and that made the players want to rush him more. So I guess that could negatively affect team chemistry if he's really like that. If thats the case It would make me shy away if I was starting a franchise.

Saints-Tigers 12-13-2012 01:11 AM

Griffin will never be a problem. I don't think he's 100% genuine with everything he says, but he knows how to play the media game and always have the right answers. Kevin Durant-esque

I like his pure speed and intelligence over Cam's size.

ramsrule 12-15-2012 10:39 AM

I take them both. I like Cam because he is big, strong, and can move - reminds me of a healthy Culpepper or Big Ben. His accuracy needs to improve as does his work ethic (at least that is some of the reports here in Charlotte) but his upside is unparalleled.

RG3 can do it all. He can stand in the pocket and pick you apart of dart outside and burn a good defense for a 80 yard touchdown. I knew he would be the real deal when I saw him shred Oklahoma's defense his senior year at Baylor.

tmljeh19 12-16-2012 08:56 PM

How is this even a serious question. RG3 has a surgically accurate deep ball, an extremely accurate passer in general, more of a threat keeping the ball. Griff can pick you apart with his arm in the pocket or on the run. Cam will not pick you apart. Its 15 weeks in a Griff is already better then Scam Newton. Thats not even the tip of the iceberg when it comes to being a team leader and a role model.

Leon Sandcastle 12-16-2012 10:34 PM

I'll take Cam because I'm scared of Griffin's durability. If he learns how to slide I'll change my mind.


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