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-   -   Week 17 Poll: Rookie of the Year Going Into the Final Week (http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=55002)

Caulibflower 12-24-2012 08:57 PM

Week 17 Poll: Rookie of the Year Going Into the Final Week
 
Basically, I just want to see how the poll numbers might have changed after the 49ers-Seahawks game, because this race is so close it seems perfectly reasonable to take a new poll each week. Don't have a whole lot to say to start the thread since the conversation is already going; just posting this for a fresh poll. Thought about adding Alfred Morris and Doug Martin to the poll just out of respect, but everyone knows they've both been fantastic but won't win.

SuperPacker 12-24-2012 09:03 PM

They've all been great, which I don't think should get lost in the arguments that will inevitably start in about 5 minutes.

If I had to choose, i'd go RG3. Just think he's been the more efficient and impressive quarterback.

Trogdor 12-24-2012 09:32 PM

Basically how I'd vote would depend on the criteria for the award.

If I was told the award was based on efficiency (QBR/Completion %) I'd vote RGIII.

If I was told the award was based on the QB position from a pop culture standpoint (Yardage/TDs/Game Winners etc) I'd call it a three-way tie.

If I was told the award was based on a complete evaluate (MVP) weighing the contributions of the individual to those of the team I'd vote Luck.

For the purposes of the poll I assume a complete evaluation and that the award is merited based on a "MVP" basis and not either of the other options I mentioned above.

Honestly though I wish Morris/Martin were in a different year so I could debate voting for them :) Their contributions to their teams is vastly underrated, Morris especially, given the complete lack of respect he is being given in the "discussion".

Caulibflower 12-24-2012 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperPacker (Post 3222011)
They've all been great, which I don't think should get lost in the arguments that will inevitably start in about 5 minutes.

If I had to choose, i'd go RG3. Just think he's been the more efficient and impressive quarterback.

Don't even care about the arguments. Literally just want to see an updated poll.

descendency 12-24-2012 09:48 PM

I think this year is close enough that I need to actually evaluate their games and since I can't do that, I won't vote. From what I've personally seen (which is very little), I was most impressed with Luck, because I've seen about 2 total games of each.

edit: I also don't think there is a well defined OROTY criteria. Are you voting on the MVP criteria or the OPOTY?

If it's the former you have to make an entirely different argument than the latter.

Caulibflower 12-24-2012 09:51 PM

I don't know if there really is a "criteria." It's a combination of things. I might go with something as a loose as "biggest impact on the league." All three of these guys have totally changed the faces you think of when you think of who the NFL's best quarterbacks are, and they're going to be there a long time. Really don't think it's something that can be argued definitively; you just pick the one you like best.

J-Mike88 12-24-2012 10:15 PM

Wilson looks the best to me.
Smooth, under control... great with his arm and legs. Poised.

Doesn't play crappy for 3 quarters against bad teams and then pull it out late after the opposing QB tries to lose the game.

Wilson doesn't make a bunch of mistakes, turnovers, bad interceptions.

He's led an offense that used to be pretty bland, to 50 points-a-game the past 3 weeks, big games by the way... something nobody from Manning to Brady to Rodgers to Farve to Brees have done. Points. Wins. Efficient.

People want to talk about the Colts being horrible, #1 pick last year... like they were talentless. They had a bad year, and quit after a month.
They still had a great, veteran receiver in Reggie Wayne. They drafted a stud TE early.
They kept Mathis & Freeney, showing they were not, in fact, planning on rebuilding.
They had been a perennial playoff team, a 12, 13-win team before last year with Manning. Now with a last place schedule, they're gonna win 10 again with Luck's ups & downs.

I didn't expect him to throw so many interceptions.

All year long, Robert Griffin has carried the Redskins offense, put em on his back, arms & legs. His turnovers are incredibly low for a rookie. Sure his pass attempts are lower than Luck, but his TDs are still the same, plus his legs have been important to winning games for the Redskins.

He's jump-started that team and city.
I am no fan of the NFC East, but he gets my vote based on what I have seen watching games, and the stats, passer ratings, W-L records back it up.

tjsunstein 12-24-2012 10:26 PM

I voted Wilson last poll, and I think Im going to stick to that but RG3 could very well win me over next week at home against Dallas for a playoff spot. Thats primetime and I feel like this award will be heavily influenced by that game. Luck has been everything we thought he was. The thing about Luck, though, is Im torn between the amount of turnovers yet hes led Indy to 7 comeback wins.

Its really unbelievable, league wide, with the NFL season we've been spoiled with this year. This has been one of the most exciting seasons I can remember.

J-Mike88 12-24-2012 11:10 PM

I actually love Luck, respect him a lot.
His stats as a rookie are very similar to Sam Bradford's rookie season. And both had terrible receivers... well check that, Reggie Wayne is still a great one.

2012 Rookie Andy Luck: 21 TD/ 18 Int/ 75.6 passer rating
2010 Rookie Sam Bradford: 18 TD/15 Int/76.5 passer rating


Bradford won the ROY behind those stats didn't he?

Of course, people think Bradford sucks but this year Sam is 20/12/ 83.2 passer rating, despite again a horrible set of WRs IMO.

tjsunstein 12-24-2012 11:18 PM

Cant compare Luck to Bradford. Im not even sure Bradford would place top 4 in this rookie of the year voting. Unreal year from this class, but Im not giving Luck the 'no WR' excuse. Not many rookies walk into Reggie Wayne and hes leaned on 87 the whole year.

Mufasa 12-24-2012 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J-Mike88 (Post 3222086)
I actually love Luck, respect him a lot.
His stats as a rookie are very similar to Sam Bradford's rookie season. And both had terrible receivers... well check that, Reggie Wayne is still a great one.

2012 Rookie Andy Luck: 21 TD/ 18 Int/ 75.6 passer rating
2010 Rookie Sam Bradford: 18 TD/15 Int/76.5 passer rating


Bradford won the ROY behind those stats didn't he?

Of course, people think Bradford sucks but this year Sam is 20/12/ 83.2 passer rating, despite again a horrible set of WRs IMO.

Yeah, but the other QBs in Bradford's class were Tim Tebow, Jimmy Clausen, Colt McCoy, and Joe Webb. Quite a difference. If Griffin or Wilson were in Bradford's class he might not have even gotten a single vote.

AntoinCD 12-25-2012 02:19 AM

For as much **** as I have given, not necessarily RG3, but some of the guys here who are have blindly stated he is ROTY with raw numbers, I will admit what he has done this year has been really good. What well help him in this vote is he is very charismatic, well spoken, efficient and makes splash plays which end up on the highlight reel. He also has his team in playoff contention. Now while I do think he has the steepest learning curve of the 3 QBs I do believe he has played some pretty damn good football for what is asked of him. What goes against Griffin is he has been hurt and missed time. When Cousins (also a rookie) stepped in for him they had their joint second highest ouput from a points perspective.

Andrew Luck is about as advanced as any rookie QB in NFL history. The offense he is running has no training wheels on it. He is basically running the exact same offense that a seasoned pro and 2 time Superbowl winning QB ran for years. He also has his team winning, in the playoffs and has 7 4th quarter comebacks. For those who criticise him for being in those situations it doesn't really matter. It's how you finish, just ask the Giants in 2007 and 2011. Luck will likely get some votes based on being the first overall pick, however I also think he will get votes from guys who see that what he does isn't as easily quantifiable as it is for the other guys.

However, as it stands now I'm going for Russell Wilson, for two reasons. Firstly, he is playing his best football right now, when it counts and there is no team in the NFL as hot as the Seahawks. The defense and running game allowed Wilson to get acclimated to the speed of the game, however recently his offensive output has been ridiculous. And secondly, it's not just that you win, but who you win against. The Seahawks have beaten 5 potential playoff teams this year, including the Packers (yes I know what you're going to say JMike, but a win's a win), the Patriots and an absolute beatdown against the 49ers who the media proclaimed best team in football until Sunday night.

While these awards are full season awards, in all reality they aren't. It doesn't matter how good you are in September if you can't get it done in December. The later it gets in the year, the more important things get. Take the MVP vote as an example, Adrian Peterson was good to start the year, not great. However as the games have gotten more important he has been out of this world. That holds a lot of sway with voters and fans.

FUNBUNCHER 12-25-2012 02:58 AM

RG3 has been named Rookie of the Week 6x this season. Luck 3x. Wilson once.
Alfred Morris 2x. Kirk Cousins once.

Robert is going to have the stage all to himself Sunday night against the Cowboys. If he has a blow up game against Dallas, I think the last impression fans have will last the longest.

If he plays just so-so and Luck and the Colts upset the Texans, I think Andrew takes it.

AntoinCD 12-25-2012 03:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER (Post 3222157)
RG3 has been named Rookie of the Week 6x this season. Luck 3x. Wilson once.
Alfred Morris 2x. Kirk Cousins once.

Robert is going to have the stage all to himself Sunday night against the Cowboys. If he has a blow up game against Dallas, I think the last impression fans have will last the longest.

If he plays just so-so and Luck and the Colts upset the Texans, I think Andrew takes it.

Definitely possible, especially if he has a similar game to the first meeting.

The Texans have slipped up enough recently for a win for Luck not to be considered ground breaking, but it would definitely help his cause to QB a team that was worst in the league to a 11 win season.

However Wilson has a chance to do something as well against St Louis. The Seahawks have scored nearly 150 points in their last 3 games. If they drop 50 on St Louis then that will be a huge factor in this award. If the Seahawks finish their last 4 games 4-0 with a combined score of something like 200-45 then how can you not come away impressed

The Alex 12-25-2012 04:26 AM

Ryan Lindley.

fenikz 12-25-2012 04:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Alex (Post 3222180)
Ryan Lindley.

Championship. Lock it up.

I went with RGIII

Smooth Criminal 12-25-2012 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperPacker (Post 3222011)
They've all been great, which I don't think should get lost in the arguments that will inevitably start in about 5 minutes.

If I had to choose, i'd go RG3. Just think he's been the more efficient and impressive quarterback.

This. All of my thoughts exactly.

prock 12-25-2012 09:42 AM

Blair Walsh.

TheFinisher 12-25-2012 10:05 AM

It's a tough choice between RG3 and Wilson for me, but given the Seahawks' offense's late surge of ridiculousness I voted Wilson. He needs 1 TD to tie Peyton's rookie record, has only thrown 2 INTs since the calendar flipped to November, and they've been 6-1 in that stretch.

But RG3 has been awesome too and I wouldn't bat an eye if he won it.

I'm not as impressed with what Luck and the Colts have done, yea they've won 10 games but look at those last 8 wins... Cle, Tenx2, Mia, Jax, Buf, Det, KC... I'm pretty sure that's the draft order for the top 10 in April. He's also completed only 54% of his passes, has 18 INTs, and the least amount of TDs despite having almost double the amount of attempts.

Rob S 12-25-2012 10:33 AM

For me, I need to see Week 17. If RG III plays well and gets the win over Dallas and seals the division, he is likely my guy. Say what you want about the Skins offense, but it's worked and he has executed it masterfully. If RG III loses vs Dallas, Russel Wilson gets my vote.

P.S. I do think Luck will likely be the best QB to come out of this class. His efficiency just isn't there yet. Once he is fully comfortable in an NFL offense and those interceptions begin to drop/ completion % begins to rise, watch out.....records might be falling.

Bob Sanders Dreadlock 12-25-2012 10:59 AM

Luck Luck Luck

ChiFan24 12-25-2012 12:12 PM

1. Luck 2. RG3 3. Wilson

They're all really good. Luck does it in a traditional offense and his arm is the only thing that team has going for it - and they're 10-5. The argument against RG3 is really tough to make, because you certainly can't hold it against him that he makes things happen with his legs....but what Luck does in terms of degree of difficulty is on a totally different level.

Russell was just too crappy at the beginning of the season to be in the conversation.

ChiFan24 12-25-2012 12:14 PM

*RG3 is an absolute lock to win it though.

jsagan77 12-25-2012 01:07 PM

There is no criteria for the award, simply must be a rookie. It's open to interpretation of the voters.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trogdor (Post 3222029)
Basically how I'd vote would depend on the criteria for the award.

If I was told the award was based on efficiency (QBR/Completion %) I'd vote RGIII.

If I was told the award was based on the QB position from a pop culture standpoint (Yardage/TDs/Game Winners etc) I'd call it a three-way tie.

If I was told the award was based on a complete evaluate (MVP) weighing the contributions of the individual to those of the team I'd vote Luck.

For the purposes of the poll I assume a complete evaluation and that the award is merited based on a "MVP" basis and not either of the other options I mentioned above.

Honestly though I wish Morris/Martin were in a different year so I could debate voting for them :) Their contributions to their teams is vastly underrated, Morris especially, given the complete lack of respect he is being given in the "discussion".


gpngc 12-25-2012 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiFan24 (Post 3222216)
*RG3 is an absolute lock to win it though.

I'm curious as to why you believe this.

Because if he loses on SNF, he'll be the only one NOT to lead his team to the playoffs...

I'd guess that would take him out of the race completely given how amazing all three have been.

And I'm rooting for RGIII for financial reasons.


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