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-   -   Zac Dysert - Record as Starter a Concern? (http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=55087)

heavyduty 01-01-2013 07:41 PM

Zac Dysert - Record as Starter a Concern?
 
I have only watched a few games of Dysert but I have liked what I have seen. Love his deep ball, ability to throw on the run, and strength in the pocket, but when I looked at his record I became a bit concerned. I truthfully never watch miami(Ohio) and know very little about their team so I was wondering if somebody with knowledge of their team could school me. Does a serious lack of surrounding talent or poor coaching or anything help explain a 8-16 record over the past 2 seasons?? I noticed a lot of dropped passes in film and their defense allowed 35 points a game in 2012 so I would assume the talent level is not great but when you play teams like bowling green, buffalo, ball state, and central Michigan you expect a good QB to be able to pull off more then 4 wins a season.

bulldog0123 01-01-2013 07:55 PM

Using Jake Locker as an example, no. EDIT: DOES NOT MATTER AS FAR AS WHERE HE WAS SELECTED

Locker's Record: 10-21

But by the same token, "Twenty-eight quarterbacks have gone in the first round of the draft since 2000. Only five had losing records as college starters: Patrick Ramsey, Kyle Boller, J.P. Losman, Jay Cutler and Josh Freeman."

Not a good group

Cigaro 01-01-2013 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bulldog0123 (Post 3229729)
Using Jake Locker as an example, no.

Locker's Record: 10-21

But by the same token, "Twenty-eight quarterbacks have gone in the first round of the draft since 2000. Only five had losing records as college starters: Patrick Ramsey, Kyle Boller, J.P. Losman, Jay Cutler and Josh Freeman."

Not a good group

I thought a number of Titans fans aren't too happy with what they've seen from Locker so far? But at least Locker would have the argument of facing much better quality opponents in the Pac-10(then) compared to the MAC.

For comparison, Roethlisberger was 27-11 at Miami (OH).

heavyduty 01-01-2013 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cigaro (Post 3229737)
I thought a number of Titans fans aren't too happy with what they've seen from Locker so far? But at least Locker would have the argument of facing much better quality opponents in the Pac-10(then) compared to the MAC.

For comparison, Roethlisberger was 27-11 at Miami (OH).

Ya Locker as a comparison does not really work because of the quality of competition. Also, didn't Washington go 7-5 in Locker's senior season??? I was never high on Locker, the potential was obviously there but I never loved what I saw in games.

Another thing that scares me with Dysert is if you take away his 6 td 0 int game vs Akron then his senior stats are a mediocre 19 td 12 int

Babylon 01-01-2013 09:08 PM

John Elway was 20-23 at Stanford so not sure It would be something I'd use in evaluating a QB.

Also Jake Locker was 7-5 in games he played in his sr. season, so there is that.

San Diego Chicken 01-01-2013 09:14 PM

If you've already looked a him and like him, it shouldn't be something that sways you. I'm not going to act like I've seen a ton of him but he doesn't scream starting material to me.

Cigaro 01-01-2013 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Babylon (Post 3229811)
John Elway was 20-23 at Stanford so not sure It would be something I'd use in evaluating a QB.

Also Jake Locker was 7-5 in games he played in his sr. season, so there is that.

Elway also played in the Pac-8. 20-25 in the Pac-8 isn't really that comparable to 8-16 in the MAC.

bucfan12 01-01-2013 09:18 PM

He stares down his first read almost consistantly. Not as impressed as most are with him. Extremely raw inaccurate questionable field visions pocket awareness and errtatic. Accuracy issues are a concern.

I don't see a starter. Just a qb with a big arm without the required intangibles.

heavyduty 01-01-2013 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bucfan12 (Post 3229824)
He stares down his first read almost consistantly. Not as impressed as most are with him. Extremely raw inaccurate questionable field visions pocket awareness and errtatic. Accuracy issues are a concern.

I don't see a starter. Just a qb with a big arm without the required intangibles.

Just curious what makes you say he is " extremely raw" ?? He started for 2.5 years I think and does not show traits of being a "raw" prospect in my mind.

If you are looking at his stats I would agree he is inaccurate but when you watch tape he usually throws good placed and very catchable ball often hittin his receivers in the hands/face/chest and falling to the ground. Saying accuracy is a concern to me seems, well, inaccurate lol. He does stare down receivers and is by no means a 5 star prospect but most of his problems seem very fixable with coaching.

SolidGold 01-01-2013 10:10 PM

I think if he was viewed as a first rounder it would be more of an issue but since he is more of a developmental guy it is not such a big issue. He has all the tools to work with and would more than likely be given a chance to develop behind a seasoned pro in the NFL.

descendency 01-01-2013 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by heavyduty (Post 3229802)
Another thing that scares me with Dysert is if you take away his 6 td 0 int game vs Akron then his senior stats are a mediocre 19 td 12 int

I bet that's true of a lot of prospects, though.

Taking away their throw away games tends to make their stats more mediocre.

I mean, a lot of QBs would have 0 TDs and 0 INTs if you did that...

bucfan12 01-02-2013 05:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by heavyduty (Post 3229886)
Just curious what makes you say he is " extremely raw" ?? He started for 2.5 years I think and does not show traits of being a "raw" prospect in my mind.

If you are looking at his stats I would agree he is inaccurate but when you watch tape he usually throws good placed and very catchable ball often hittin his receivers in the hands/face/chest and falling to the ground. Saying accuracy is a concern to me seems, well, inaccurate lol. He does stare down receivers and is by no means a 5 star prospect but most of his problems seem very fixable with coaching.

I'm not just looking at stats. I've watched the kid a few times and the same flaws jump out. Doesn't go through his reads and progressions. Consist inert stares down one side of the field. Accuracy is spotty. He's got an arm on him. I think he'll be picked anywhere from the 3rd and 5th round. Bc he is raw. When your inconsistent like that to me you're raw as a passer and need time to sit ad develop. By no means is he ready to come in day one and start.

heavyduty 01-02-2013 06:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by descendency (Post 3229984)
I bet that's true of a lot of prospects, though.

Taking away their throw away games tends to make their stats more mediocre.

I mean, a lot of QBs would have 0 TDs and 0 INTs if you did that...

Fair enough but I am only taking away 1 game. If I were taking out 2 or 3 I would understand, or even if they had a tougher schedule.

heavyduty 01-02-2013 06:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bucfan12 (Post 3230112)
I'm not just looking at stats. I've watched the kid a few times and the same flaws jump out. Doesn't go through his reads and progressions. Consist inert stares down one side of the field. Accuracy is spotty. He's got an arm on him. I think he'll be picked anywhere from the 3rd and 5th round. Bc he is raw. When your inconsistent like that to me you're raw as a passer and need time to sit ad develop. By no means is he ready to come in day one and start.

I would agree with most of the negatives you bring up about Dysert but I'm not sure he is raw. I guess it depends on someone's definition of the word but someone like Ryan Fitzpatrick has a lot of the same traits you listed, would you say he is raw? Or would you say that label is lost with age and you become just an inconsistent QB? Not trying to argue, just curious.

SomethingAboutFB 01-04-2013 09:55 PM

All those negatives i see them all in his 2012 cutups.

I was told because of the O changes, he got worst (really doesn't help his case even if its true). I'm looking for 2011 tapes, which should show what he is capable of, but as far as I can tell, he really just not cut out to be a pocket passer in the short to med range, which makes him almost useless in the pros

OzTitan 01-04-2013 10:14 PM

Why are people using Jake Locker as a point of reference as to why a W/L record in college doesn't matter much for a QB? :P

SomethingAboutFB 01-04-2013 10:22 PM

LOL...no clue horrible example. Locker is making the case to avoid Dysert

bulldog0123 01-04-2013 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OzTitan (Post 3233061)
Why are people using Jake Locker as a point of reference as to why a W/L record in college doesn't matter much for a QB? :P

I was just talking about merely how Locker was still selected high even with the losing record.

Rosebud 01-05-2013 03:11 PM

Jake Locker, Jay Cutler and Josh Freeman say no, his record won't keep him from being a top pick.

bulldog0123 01-05-2013 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rosebud (Post 3233521)
Jake Locker, Jay Cutler and Josh Freeman say no, his record won't keep him from being a top pick.

That's what my point was. Thank you

bucfan12 01-05-2013 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rosebud (Post 3233521)
Jake Locker, Jay Cutler and Josh Freeman say no, his record won't keep him from being a top pick.

Jake Locker and Josh Freeman both haven't been exactly lighting the NFL up either. Locker is atleast still 2 years younger.

Freeman? 3 out of 4 seasons, they had losing records with him at the helm. And 3 years he had INTs of 18, 22, 17.

Starting to think 2010 was a mirage. Still stares down WRs, doesn't exactly read defenses well, very innnaccurate, and throws into double and even triple coverage sometimes.

Cutler is a gun slinger, but I'd actually like to see him with a better offensive line in front of him before I make judgement. Sometimes really dislike his attitude.

SomethingAboutFB 01-05-2013 04:57 PM

regardless of record, Dysert looks nothing like a startable QB in the NFL

bulldog0123 01-05-2013 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bucfan12 (Post 3233703)
Jake Locker and Josh Freeman both haven't been exactly lighting the NFL up either. Locker is atleast still 2 years younger.

Freeman? 3 out of 4 seasons, they had losing records with him at the helm. And 3 years he had INTs of 18, 22, 17.

Starting to think 2010 was a mirage. Still stares down WRs, doesn't exactly read defenses well, very innnaccurate, and throws into double and even triple coverage sometimes.

Cutler is a gun slinger, but I'd actually like to see him with a better offensive line in front of him before I make judgement. Sometimes really dislike his attitude.

But they still were drafted high.

descendency 01-05-2013 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OzTitan (Post 3233061)
Why are people using Jake Locker as a point of reference as to why a W/L record in college doesn't matter much for a QB? :P

Because he went top 10? IDK.

bucfan12 01-05-2013 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bulldog0123 (Post 3233770)
But they still were drafted high.

So what ? Teams are learning from these poor selections. Me personally? I'm looking for a qb who has it between the ears , is accurate and can trow with velocity.

Does he have to have a big arm like Josh Freeman ? No. I prefer someone who can read defenses accurate and throw on anticipation.


Look at the top 5 qbs in the nfl. They don't have the strongest arms. What they have are intangibles accuracy and excellent mechanics.


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