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-   -   Is Kiper Completely Out of Touch with the NFL Draft At This Point? (http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=55273)

Matthew Jones 01-16-2013 10:39 AM

Is Kiper Completely Out of Touch with the NFL Draft At This Point?
 
I won't post a link because it's against the rules, but let's highlight some aspects of Kiper's insane mock draft:

1. Montee Ball is a first round pick
2. 24-year old Florida State right tackle Menelik Watson is in the first round
3. Keenan Allen is the third receiver drafted (#27 overall)
4. Kevin Minter and Margus Hunt are in the first round
5. No quarterbacks are drafted in the first round

That doesn't even include some of the horrible schematic fits included in the mock. Is it time for Mel to retire? At this point, he seems to have no ability to evaluate prospects or provide logical mock drafts.

Brothgar 01-16-2013 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew Jones (Post 3246774)
I won't post a link because it's against the rules, but let's highlight some aspects of Kiper's insane mock draft:

1. Montee Ball is a first round pick
2. 24-year old Florida State right tackle Menelik Watson is in the first round
3. Keenan Allen is the third receiver drafted (#27 overall)
4. Kevin Minter and Margus Hunt are in the first round
5. No quarterbacks are drafted in the first round

That doesn't even include some of the horrible schematic fits included in the mock. Is it time for Mel to retire? At this point, he seems to have no ability to evaluate prospects or provide logical mock drafts.

Meh its a first mock draft I too often get all my crazies out with the first one. Hell even all the head coaching vacancies aren't even filled.

jrdrylie 01-16-2013 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew Jones (Post 3246774)
I won't post a link because it's against the rules, but let's highlight some aspects of Kiper's insane mock draft:

1. Montee Ball is a first round pick
2. 24-year old Florida State right tackle Menelik Watson is in the first round
3. Keenan Allen is the third receiver drafted (#27 overall)
4. Kevin Minter and Margus Hunt are in the first round
5. No quarterbacks are drafted in the first round

That doesn't even include some of the horrible schematic fits included in the mock. Is it time for Mel to retire? At this point, he seems to have no ability to evaluate prospects or provide logical mock drafts.

1. Ha ha ha ha
2. What?
3. I could actually see that. We are hearing more and more that Patterson is going to be the top receiever. Williams, Hopkins, Hunter, or even Austin could conceivably jump Allen.
4. I wouldn't be shocked if Minter went first round. And a team could fall in love with Hunt's size, speed, and upside to take him late first.
5. Hasn't happened since 1996. Unless NFL rules drstically change, there will never be another draft without a QB round one.

SuperPacker 01-16-2013 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew Jones (Post 3246774)
I won't post a link because it's against the rules, but let's highlight some aspects of Kiper's insane mock draft:

1. Montee Ball is a first round pick
2. 24-year old Florida State right tackle Menelik Watson is in the first round
3. Keenan Allen is the third receiver drafted (#27 overall)
4. Kevin Minter and Margus Hunt are in the first round
5. No quarterbacks are drafted in the first round

That doesn't even include some of the horrible schematic fits included in the mock. Is it time for Mel to retire? At this point, he seems to have no ability to evaluate prospects or provide logical mock drafts.

I don't have a problem with 2, 3 and 4.

Also:


Halsey 01-16-2013 11:04 AM

I haven't seen his latest mock, but have felt for a while that Mel isn't as good of a Draft analyzer as he used to be. He's still interesting to listen to, but I don't have a lot of confidence in his opinions.

draftguru151 01-16-2013 11:09 AM

Most of his stuff before the draft (or at least closer to it) is to hype up certain guys or ideas. It's generally his thoughts on guys more than what he actually sees. So when a guy like Hunt starts flying up boards (like he will), Kiper can point to him having him high way back when.

vidae 01-16-2013 01:05 PM

In a word: yes.

Forenci 01-16-2013 01:16 PM

Haha, I know people have a love affair with Mel Kiper but I've always found him to be a bit of a doofus. People hold onto their love for him and his insanity because they're fond of growing up watching the draft with him there, but I'm not much of a fan.

How people can still watch ESPN coverage over NFL Network coverage of the draft is beyond me. Rich Eisen alone makes it worth while.

vidae 01-16-2013 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forenci (Post 3246935)
How people can still watch ESPN coverage over NFL Network coverage of the draft is beyond me. Rich Eisen alone makes it worth while.

Gotta agree here. I'm a big Mayock fan, I'm a big Charles Davis fan, and Rich Eisen rules. I haven't watched the ESPN broadcast since NFLN started theirs, and I have no desire to go back.

Forenci 01-16-2013 01:29 PM

Agreed. I like Charles and Mayock. Even if you don't like Mayock his knowledge of players is pretty damn impressive.

NFL Network is much more fun and informative to watch. The main things I hate about being in school right now is draft days always fall on finals for me so I haven't been able to watch it like I normally do. Makes me a sad panda.

bigbuc 01-16-2013 01:49 PM

It's his first mock. All mocks are jokes right now!

D-Unit 01-16-2013 02:06 PM

His early mocks mostly reflect guys who he thinks will see their stocks soar. That way he can the credit for noticing them first. Menelik Watson is the perfect example. He could end up being the Tyron Smith of this draft.

Unbiased 01-16-2013 02:17 PM

I have no problem with a weird mock in January. And it's only weird to us dummies who watch Youtube videos and pretend that we know enough about the draft to praise or laugh at picks.

Babylon 01-16-2013 02:36 PM

Curious to what ever happened to rule #14 in here. Thou shalt not say anything bad about Mel.

Cigaro 01-16-2013 03:13 PM

3 and 4 sound completely reasonable, and although I seriously doubt 2, there is some potential of this happening.

PossibleCabbage 01-16-2013 03:20 PM

I think, honestly, at ESPN these days Mel Kiper is more of a brand than an analyst. ESPN doesn't do much in the way of "analysis" these days period full stop, anyway.

Don Vito 01-16-2013 03:21 PM

Mel is a character. He is a fun personality for the draft, but there was some insanity in that mock. I am not going to go into too much detail because it is insider, but other ridiculous parts of that mock included:

-Saying Ogletree was the best player on the field in the SECCG against Bama.
-Joeckel #1 to the Chiefs. He might be the best player in the draft but it is insanity and he should know that.
-Saying he has heard people compare Werner to JJ Watt, insinuating that there might be truth to it.
-Chance Warmack #7 to Arizona. Great player, but they don't have the luxury of drafting a guard there. Right?

CollegeFan 01-16-2013 03:30 PM

Who does he have Montee Ball going to? I could see Lacy first before Ball.

JBScouting 01-16-2013 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew Jones (Post 3246774)
I won't post a link because it's against the rules, but let's highlight some aspects of Kiper's insane mock draft:

1. Montee Ball is a first round pick
2. 24-year old Florida State right tackle Menelik Watson is in the first round
3. Keenan Allen is the third receiver drafted (#27 overall)
4. Kevin Minter and Margus Hunt are in the first round
5. No quarterbacks are drafted in the first round

That doesn't even include some of the horrible schematic fits included in the mock. Is it time for Mel to retire? At this point, he seems to have no ability to evaluate prospects or provide logical mock drafts.

I won't pick on anyone but if you go by that then there are a lot of websites out there that need to shut down. It's his opinion and it will change as he talks to people. I remember last year at this point he and McShay had Brian Quick as a 4th-5th rounder and yet he went 2nd round. They finally warmed up to it. They were just behind on it. There are players they are ahead of most on and those they are behind on. Let's see how it looks right before the draft. I'm sure a lot of that will change.

Shane P. Hallam 01-16-2013 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don Vito (Post 3247057)
Mel is a character. He is a fun personality for the draft, but there was some insanity in that mock. I am not going to go into too much detail because it is insider, but other ridiculous parts of that mock included:

-Saying Ogletree was the best player on the field in the SECCG against Bama.
-Joeckel #1 to the Chiefs. He might be the best player in the draft but it is insanity and he should know that.
-Saying he has heard people compare Werner to JJ Watt, insinuating that there might be truth to it.
-Chance Warmack #7 to Arizona. Great player, but they don't have the luxury of drafting a guard there. Right?

I don't see anything you said as that inflammatory or ridiculous. Not popular opinion perhaps, but all 4 of those might not be incorrect. And it is early January, lots to change and manipulate.

I give Kiper a hell of a lot of credit for what he did for the draft and give him a ton of credit to not just take it easy and spout popular platitudes about players and mock/rank as such. He still goes outside the box, and I don't think that should be ridiculed. I'd much rather read a unique mock than the usual picks for every team that is barely right by the end of it. Just my opinion, and if you look at his early January mock and April mock they are NOTHING alike. That doesn't make him out of touch, that shows change and more information.

T-RICH49 01-16-2013 03:34 PM

Yes to the original post.I now go to Mayock and Scott for my draft coverage

Iamcanadian 01-16-2013 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew Jones (Post 3246774)
I won't post a link because it's against the rules, but let's highlight some aspects of Kiper's insane mock draft:

1. Montee Ball is a first round pick
2. 24-year old Florida State right tackle Menelik Watson is in the first round
3. Keenan Allen is the third receiver drafted (#27 overall)
4. Kevin Minter and Margus Hunt are in the first round
5. No quarterbacks are drafted in the first round

That doesn't even include some of the horrible schematic fits included in the mock. Is it time for Mel to retire? At this point, he seems to have no ability to evaluate prospects or provide logical mock drafts.

Kiper has long been know to manipulate his rankings in order to sell to more people. Only his final one prior to the draft means squat, the rest are just cannon fodder to keep people intested in the subject and buying his product.
He's been doing the same thing for years. You have to take his mocks with a grain of salf until his last one is published.

AntoinCD 01-16-2013 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don Vito (Post 3247057)
Mel is a character. He is a fun personality for the draft, but there was some insanity in that mock. I am not going to go into too much detail because it is insider, but other ridiculous parts of that mock included:

-Saying Ogletree was the best player on the field in the SECCG against Bama.
-Joeckel #1 to the Chiefs. He might be the best player in the draft but it is insanity and he should know that.
-Saying he has heard people compare Werner to JJ Watt, insinuating that there might be truth to it.
-Chance Warmack #7 to Arizona. Great player, but they don't have the luxury of drafting a guard there. Right?

I agree that Kiper is there because he's Mel Kiper, and don't shoot me for this but I think McShay is a much better analyst than him now, however, a few of those things aren't that off the ball.

I disagree about Ogletree but it's not as though he's a scrub.

A lot of people have talked about Joeckel as the top pick. It all depends on KC. If they don't go QB (a mistake IMO) then they likely will go Joeckel.

I don't compare Werner to Watt and this is really the only one I strongly disagree with because they are two completely different players. But hey, they are white so the comparison is apt :facepalm:

Warmack to Arizona could make sense if Joeckel and Fisher are off the board which could well happen, especially if Geno is also gone. Would it be a reach for a OG? Probably but still not a horrendous thing.


I simply don't like Kiper that much anymore because there are so many better guys than him, plus he gets the added bonus of all this insider information that he passes off as his own

descendency 01-16-2013 03:58 PM

Kansas City will take Ansah #1 overall, because they've seen what JPP can do and Ansah = JPP

Forenci 01-16-2013 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D-Unit (Post 3247001)
His early mocks mostly reflect guys who he thinks will see their stocks soar. That way he can the credit for noticing them first. Menelik Watson is the perfect example. He could end up being the Tyron Smith of this draft.

I just disagree. This is a mock draft. This is what you THINK will happen on draft day. This isn't overall player rankings. Just because you think someone will be good or is good doesn't mean you should mock him at that spot. It's what is realistic right now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shane P. Hallam (Post 3247071)
I don't see anything you said as that inflammatory or ridiculous. Not popular opinion perhaps, but all 4 of those might not be incorrect. And it is early January, lots to change and manipulate.

I give Kiper a hell of a lot of credit for what he did for the draft and give him a ton of credit to not just take it easy and spout popular platitudes about players and mock/rank as such. He still goes outside the box, and I don't think that should be ridiculed. I'd much rather read a unique mock than the usual picks for every team that is barely right by the end of it. Just my opinion, and if you look at his early January mock and April mock they are NOTHING alike. That doesn't make him out of touch, that shows change and more information.

So basically he's really uninformed at the beginning and then becomes slightly more informed? I just don't get how everyone gives Kiper a pass. Actually I do get it. It's mainly sentiment and loving his goofy hair and personality.

When I look at a mock, I don't mind their being some different things. I don't want a top 32 overall ranking as my mock draft because that's not how it works. But you can't honestly look at this mock and say it's anything close to resembling a potential draft day outcome?

And he changes it because of how stupid his initial mock draft is. Compare others. Do their mock drafts change a bit from now until April? Of course. But it's not overwhelmingly so like Kipers.


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