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-   -   What's Up with Honey Badger? (http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=55823)

Iamcanadian 03-02-2013 12:21 AM

What's Up with Honey Badger?
 
Tyrann Mathieu, better know as Honey Badger had a pretty good Combine.
He showed the instincts of a shut down CB and some say, he was a mile ahead of every other CB at the Combine in that area.

MR. Dukes, an analyst on the 'Path to the Draft' even suggested, he could go round 1, that's how he saw him perform at the combine.

What say you all?

I have to admit, he really impressed me with his combine performance but I'm still inclined to think he will be no better than a late round 2 or round 3 pick. His hip rotation was out of this world, why are there so many talented head cases in this year's draft, Christine Michael is just another terrible waste of talent.

diabsoule 03-02-2013 12:45 AM

I thought he had a solid workout but it wasn't "OMG, NEXT SHUTDOWN CORNERZ!!!" when I saw his combine numbers. Also, look at the film. He's a playmaker on ST and on defense but he's an undersized corner that struggles in man coverage, and he also carries a ton of off-the-field baggage.

I wouldn't spend a first or second round pick on him.

LonghornsLegend 03-02-2013 01:13 AM

I was always a fan of his game film, I recognize what he isn't able to do but realize what he brings to a team and he's a guy who is great with the ball in his hands and has a nose for the football. But his combine didn't wow me, it was just solid, nothing there was extreme enough to take him in the 1st or even 2nd round. 3rd round sign me up, but with the baggage, and the fact that I don't think you can just put him outside on a good WR, not going to take him any sooner.

Caulibflower 03-02-2013 02:01 AM

He seems like a nice accessory to me. I think he'll be able to contribute to a defense as long as he doesn't have to be a primary piece. He'd get owned by the NFL's best wide receivers.

PossibleCabbage 03-02-2013 02:06 AM

For me the model is Janoris Jenkins. On film, Jenkins was a top 5 talent who fell to the second round because he had serious character issues. Jenkins is both more talented, and more versatile than Matthieu (who projects to a slot CB/accessory piece) so I would put Matthieu's ceiling at the third round.

Unless of course the lesson teams learned from Janoris Jenkins is "it's okay to take this guy high despite his character concerns." But if I passed on Jenkins last year, and feel okay about doing that in retrospect, then I pass on Matthieu this year. Eventually the value will sufficiently mitigate the risk, however.

BallerT1215 03-02-2013 03:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PossibleCabbage (Post 3289025)
For me the model is Janoris Jenkins. On film, Jenkins was a top 5 talent who fell to the second round because he had serious character issues. Jenkins is both more talented, and more versatile than Matthieu (who projects to a slot CB/accessory piece) so I would put Matthieu's ceiling at the third round.

Unless of course the lesson teams learned from Janoris Jenkins is "it's okay to take this guy high despite his character concerns." But if I passed on Jenkins last year, and feel okay about doing that in retrospect, then I pass on Matthieu this year. Eventually the value will sufficiently mitigate the risk, however.

Jenkins is beyond "more talented" when it comes to the CB position.

Just wanted to stress that part.

wicket 03-02-2013 03:54 AM

i dont want to spend a high pick on a very risky guy whose upside is nickel corner and special teams ace

RedMeat 03-02-2013 05:06 AM

A 5th rd. on the bud man? Or his baggage not worth the effort on a return guy? Did he ever get his scale back?

Lil Quip 03-02-2013 05:10 AM

Although they were at different stages in their collegiate careers, game tape at LSU seemed to be very telling.

Peterson was the combo of athleticism and pure corner ability.
Claiborne was more in the pure corner mode.
Mathieu was the river city gambler splash play side of things.

He has potential, but I never saw pure shutdown capability, but a guy who leaned toward the Deon Hall side of things.

niel89 03-02-2013 05:36 AM

I want to know if he tested clean at the combine first. It sounds like a joke but this guy was bad enough that he blew through probably a dozen chances at LSU before they kicked him off.

Abaddon 03-02-2013 05:55 AM

When LSU tells you that you party too hard, you should consider inpatient treatment.

Monomach 03-02-2013 06:45 AM

I'd like to see how those shutdown corner instincts work for him against a Brandon Marshall. Prediction: 15 catches for 200 even with safety help.

He's weak and small.

rawdawg 03-02-2013 09:21 AM

A nickel CB and punt returner is pretty valuable in the NFL. I think he's a 3rd round pick at this point, assuming he doesn't do something stupid in the next 2 months. He's a playmaker. He showed it on gameday and he shows he has the speed and footwork to continue to make plays. He's not going to shutdown the Calvin Johnson's of the world, but I'd trust him to hold up against most #2 WRs if I had to. Tim Jennings was an All-Pro at a similar size this year.

Monomach 03-02-2013 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rawdawg (Post 3289106)
A nickel CB and punt returner is pretty valuable in the NFL. I think he's a 3rd round pick at this point, assuming he doesn't do something stupid in the next 2 months. He's a playmaker. He showed it on gameday and he shows he has the speed and footwork to continue to make plays. He's not going to shutdown the Calvin Johnson's of the world, but I'd trust him to hold up against most #2 WRs if I had to. Tim Jennings was an All-Pro at a similar size this year.

Mathieu's got about half of the athleticism of Jennings. He's slower, much much much much much much much much weaker, less explosive, and can't get as vertical. If Mathieu had turned in Jennings' combine numbers, he'd be seen as the #2 corner of this class. Being the same size doesn't mean much.

Sam Montgomery is the same size as Brian Urlacher, but I'm not too sure how I feel about him dropping back and covering the middle of the field.

Also...Keep in mind that Jennings sucked for his first five years in the league. He's had five atrocious years and two years worthy of pro bowl talk despite being better in pretty much every way coming out of college.

Miaoww 03-02-2013 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rawdawg (Post 3289106)
A nickel CB and punt returner is pretty valuable in the NFL. I think he's a 3rd round pick at this point, assuming he doesn't do something stupid in the next 2 months. He's a playmaker. He showed it on gameday and he shows he has the speed and footwork to continue to make plays. He's not going to shutdown the Calvin Johnson's of the world, but I'd trust him to hold up against most #2 WRs if I had to. Tim Jennings was an All-Pro at a similar size this year.

I'd be happy for the Panthers to draft him in the 3rd (if we had a 3rd!). He's a second round talent based on his instincts, playmaking/return ability and solid athleticism.

He's never going to match up on the outside against Calvin Johnson, but then there's about 5 CBs in the NFL that can do that!

Put him in the Nickle/as the 3rd S in that formation and let him roam around the field. He'll create enough turnovers/havoc to warrant being on the field!

nepg 03-02-2013 09:44 AM

I think he had a ****** combine and it didn't represent his style of play being able to translate to the NFL.

Ozzy 03-02-2013 10:06 AM

I am just as interested in what Greg Reid will do with his 40 when he runs it. He is just as good of a return man as Mathieu is and arguably a faster football player overall. But maybe he is not the same after that injury.

diabsoule 03-02-2013 10:06 AM

Is a 3rd rounder worth the risk for a player who made Les Miles, of all coaches, kick him off the team? If you realized how many chances Miles has given players in the past (ex. Perilloux, Ryan) then you get how telling that is. Mathieu was given MULTIPLE chances. He failed drug test, after drug test. You have to fail four drug tests at LSU to be kicked off the team. He failed more than that which were kept under wraps.

Even after he was kicked off the team, he was at a house with 3 other former players that was raided by the cops and contained several pounds of weed with drug paraphernalia littered around the place. He wasn't arrested, neither was Jordan Jefferson who was there, but it shows he's still running with that same crowd.

Don't let his standout moments fool you. He's too short and weak for man coverage. Period, point blank. Chavis tweaked his scheme to let Mathieu roam the field a la Troy Polamalu so that he could make plays. There were games when Mathieu was abused by bigger, taller, more physical receivers. Who do you think he's going to see more of in the NFL?

I've seen every game Mathieu has ever played in. I've watched him as a fan and as a draft enthusiast. He's a risky pick.

I'm not saying the guy's not worth a pick, he is. But maybe not until the 4th at the earliest. You're gambling by drafting him, especially when considering who's sitting on the commissioner's throne, because it damn sure ain't the forgiving Les Miles.

PossibleCabbage 03-02-2013 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BallerT1215 (Post 3289041)
Jenkins is beyond "more talented" when it comes to the CB position.

Just wanted to stress that part.

Mostly what I'm saying is that if you didn't consider taking Jenkins in the first last year, you would be batf$&*ing insane to consider taking Matthieu in the first this year.

Trogdor 03-02-2013 10:28 AM

What the... what? He's extremely undersized, isn't out of this world fast, is a repeat drug offender, and worst of all he couldn't pass drug tests when he knew they were testing. That means he's not as athletically talented as his peers, he's just plain unintelligent, and he has drug problems. Not exactly sure why he was ever touted as an elite prospect.

Diab also hit the nail on the head. Les Miles isn't a disciplinarian when it comes to off-the-field conduct and he actually kicked "Honey Badger" off the team.

I think my curiosity might get the best of me in perhaps the 5th round but even then I'd be more inclined to target other players for that same role a la Steve Williams or Nickell Robey just so I'm not gambling with a guy who is guaranteed to meet Goodell a bunch.

bucfan12 03-02-2013 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by niel89 (Post 3289055)
I want to know if he tested clean at the combine first. It sounds like a joke but this guy was bad enough that he blew through probably a dozen chances at LSU before they kicked him off.

I think you'll find that out in the next coming weeks.

Like Mayock said, when you draft a guy with Character issues, it's not necessarily the first year you're worried about. It's after getting that contract and for the future. Will this guy continue to progress and stay out of trouble, or will he feel more comfortable after landing that 6-7 figure salary?

We all have to remember, we've all smoked it in college, heck I've seen some people who've done some other things, and they're doing alright these days in their respected fields of study. It's a time to let loose. It's how you respond after college. Unfortanelty there are still some "kids" that never grow out of that partying phase, and I know a few who've lost their jobs because of that part of their life effecting that.

The NFL should be no different. So, hopefully Matthieu responds well and his troubling past was a wake up call because, even though I hate to say this, leaving school without a degree, this is extremely important for him and his future. Hopefully he continues to realize this.

Sometimes, I wonder, how hard is it to stay out of trouble? If you know heading to the club in a certain area could warrant trouble, why go? I'm sure you can pick up some chicks at a local bar in the city, or anywhere.

rawdawg 03-02-2013 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monomach (Post 3289119)
Mathieu's got about half of the athleticism of Jennings. He's slower, much much much much much much much much weaker, less explosive, and can't get as vertical. If Mathieu had turned in Jennings' combine numbers, he'd be seen as the #2 corner of this class. Being the same size doesn't mean much.

Sam Montgomery is the same size as Brian Urlacher, but I'm not too sure how I feel about him dropping back and covering the middle of the field.

Also...Keep in mind that Jennings sucked for his first five years in the league. He's had five atrocious years and two years worthy of pro bowl talk despite being better in pretty much every way coming out of college.

Ok. Did I say he was the same player as Jennings or did I say same size? Mathieu has better ball skills than Jennings and while he cant touch him in man coverage I think u can do a lot with Honey Badger as far as blitzing, scheme wise, etc. That's not to say he's as good a player though.

Monomach 03-02-2013 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rawdawg (Post 3289183)
Ok. Did I say he was the same player as Jennings or did I say same size? Mathieu has better ball skills than Jennings and while he cant touch him in man coverage I think u can do a lot with Honey Badger as far as blitzing, scheme wise, etc. That's not to say he's as good a player though.

Ohhhhhh. I get it.



In all seriousness, though...5th round nickel corner at best.

gpngc 03-02-2013 12:13 PM

I don't care about the off-field stuff. He seems sincere and honest and in fact it's sort of admirable that he cut weed out of his life. I don't think NFL teams will have an issue with that and I think they'll trust him going forward. It only takes one team also.

He's a weapon with upside. I'd be surprised if he lasted past the 2nd round.

IMMEDIATELY he steps in as a big-time return threat and high-end specials prole (wow). He can also play the nickel which is basically a starter. He can play man or zone inside, make plays on the ball, strip the football, and he's a terrific blitzer. And he's got the potential to play outside as well.

Defensive coaches who want help in the secondary (so all defensive coaches) are going to want this kid BADLY. He's can make an immediate impact and has the potential to be an outside starter. If your team trusts him, it's worth it as high as the 2nd.

I usually have a rule. Prospects whose only on-field concern is his size are usually worth drafting at a discount. Matheiu has the make-up and production to be a terrific NFL player. On the field the only thing that isn't ideal is his size. This happens with guys liek Sproles, Jenkins, Wilson, and Harvin every year. I'll never forget Parcells showing us his H-W prototypes for each position. Just badly pigeon-holing himself and missing out on awesome prospects without even seeing a snap of their ability. Stupid.

And I would not be surprised if Pete Carroll took him at 25.

Armchair Scout 03-02-2013 12:46 PM

Could he be a guy who converts to safety in the NFL? I know he is small, but he is extremely physical and has exceptional awareness in zone coverage. Plus, he is an outstanding tackler. He doesn't have the man coverage skills to succeed as an outside corner, in my opinion, unless he got drafted by a team that plays tons of zone.

He lacks height, but I think his ball skills and athleticism make-up for that from a coverage standpoint, and he is a better tackler than many of the safeties in this draft. His skill set clearly isn't really position specific, but there has to be some way a team can turn him into the impact player. While Mathieu lacks some position specific skills, he is one of the most talented DBs in the entire draft, so teams should be able to find a way to get him on the field as much as possible if he pans out.


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