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-   -   What Are the Panthers Trying to Accomplish? (http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=56042)

Black Bolt 03-22-2013 10:34 AM

What Are the Panthers Trying to Accomplish?
 
Their big off season signing (besides re-signing all-pro Captain Munerlyn of course) has been....Ted Ginn Jr.? It became fashionable to bash Cam Newton last year for the teams record, but come on. At some point, the organization has to get a clue and move forward. Thoughts?

San Diego Chicken 03-22-2013 10:52 AM

Wrong forum, but aren't they up against the cap?

keylime_5 03-22-2013 11:15 AM

I can never blame a team for not overpaying for free agents and building a team with draft picks. Being a big spender every once in a while in FA is okay, but some years being quiet isn't a bad thing.

Iamcanadian 03-22-2013 11:32 AM

I think they are in cap hell with only a very limited amount of money available.

Cigaro 03-22-2013 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black Bolt (Post 3309749)
Their big off season signing (besides re-signing all-pro Captain Munerlyn of course) has been....Ted Ginn Jr.? It became fashionable to bash Cam Newton last year for the teams record, but come on. At some point, the organization has to get a clue and move forward. Thoughts?

Yes, we'll just go the money tree and pick us some nice, fresh money.

We can't afford any big names or big contracts. Our last GM left us saddled with overpayed players with a lot of guaranteed money. We have cap problems not just this year, but it'll be a problem for the next few years as well. We have to be cheap and go after minimal salaries with minimal guarantees.

We've managed to bring in a few guys on quite small contracts, and considering what we have to work with, I think Gettleman's done a decent job. The draft is going to be our main building tool for the next few years.

y.f.s. 03-22-2013 01:26 PM

All of their money is tied up in runningbacks and 4-3 linebackers, there isn't much they can do.

nobodyinparticular 03-22-2013 01:28 PM

Oh yeah, I forgot how idiotic the previous Panthers regime was when it came to spending on RBs.

Black Bolt 03-22-2013 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by y.f.s. (Post 3309911)
All of their money is tied up in runningbacks and 4-3 linebackers, there isn't much they can do.

But I wasn't suggesting they should be signing high profile FA. I just don't know if they now what they are doing. Look, the Raiders have THE WORST overall cap and talent situation in the NF; however, McKenzie's plan is to get rid of big contracts this year and sign young second string vets who played behind established names and higher draft picks who are looking for a better opportunity. With Carolina, the play seem to be don't do anything and cross your fingers. Their WR core in particular is atricious.

You mentioned the big money 4-3 backers- who does that? Two of them have been injured. They have a stud in the middle now, so why not trade one or both of the other two? Instead, they let go of Anderson who has been a rock solid fill in for both injured starters?

Black Bolt 03-22-2013 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nobodyinparticular (Post 3309915)
Oh yeah, I forgot how idiotic the previous Panthers regime was when it came to spending on RBs.

Apparently they have something against offering trades..

Cigaro 03-22-2013 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black Bolt (Post 3309922)
But I wasn't suggesting they should be signing high profile FA. I just don't know if they now what they are doing. Look, the Raiders have THE WORST overall cap and talent situation in the NF; however, McKenzie's plan is to get rid of big contracts this year and sign young second string vets who played behind established names and higher draft picks who are looking for a better opportunity. With Carolina, the play seem to be don't do anything and cross your fingers. Their WR core in particular is atricious.

Guaranteed money. It means even if we cut a lot of these guys, we're still paying a lot for them. When you consider that and the fact that you generally don't want to dismantle a team when your young, franchise quarterback is supposed to begin hitting his stride.

The WR core is alright. Steve Smith is still fine to play, simply old. LaFell is a decent number two. We don't have much outside of those guys, but its very likely we draft a receiver, particularly at some point within the first two rounds. You can't look at the team before draft day and consider it the final product.

nobodyinparticular 03-22-2013 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black Bolt (Post 3309922)
But I wasn't suggesting they should be signing high profile FA. I just don't know if they now what they are doing. Look, the Raiders have THE WORST overall cap and talent situation in the NF; however, McKenzie's plan is to get rid of big contracts this year and sign young second string vets who played behind established names and higher draft picks who are looking for a better opportunity. With Carolina, the play seem to be don't do anything and cross your fingers. Their WR core in particular is atricious.

The Raiders are in a unique situation because they need to completely rebuild a franchise that has been tattered to bits. Therefore McKenzie can afford to get rid of producing players with no heir apparent because they are overpaid whilst a team like the Panthers would be shooting themselves in the foot because they fancy themselves as playoff contenders this year.

The fact of the matter is that with a cap over $120 million, every team is going to have overpaid players sucking up cap space. Only teams like the Raiders are in a position to go through an entire 12-step cap rehab recovery process.

Cigaro 03-22-2013 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black Bolt (Post 3309925)
Apparently they have something against offering trades..

Because Ron Rivera wasn't quoted just a couple of days ago saying we'd be considering trade offers for DeAngelo Williams.

You do realize that other teams may be hesitant to take these huge contracts onto their own salary cap, right? It's not as simple as saying hey, have this guy!

No offense, but you don't seem to be too aware of our actual situation. We simply don't have much cap mobility, no matter what we do.

Nastradamus 03-22-2013 01:45 PM

Its amazing how much they have tied up in the least valuable positions. They need to June 1 cut Deangelo and get Gross to take a paycut, or trade him to someone like SD for a 3rd. Then they need to move on from Beason next year and maybe Stewart too. They should be able to manipulate things a bit to sign a few guys if needed this year.

I also think they should trade Greg Hardy. They pay Johnson a ton(which he's worth), they have Alexander and are tight against the cap. THey can't pay Hardy. Miami for a 2nd and 3rd? They could really use the picks.

Black Bolt 03-22-2013 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cigaro (Post 3309935)
Because Ron Rivera wasn't quoted just a couple of days ago saying we'd be considering trade offers for DeAngelo Williams.

You do realize that other teams may be hesitant to take these huge contracts onto their own salary cap, right? It's not as simple as saying hey, have this guy!

No offense, but you don't seem to be too aware of our actual situation. We simply don't have much cap mobility, no matter what we do.

No offense, but I shouldn't know your team as good as you do, hench the QUESTION in the first place. What I do know is that last off season, you all did very little to improve the team outside of your great first round pick and trading for that bum Louis Murphy worked out just like I thought it would. This is the second off season with very little improvement, regardless of the money situation.

Black Bolt 03-22-2013 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nastradamus (Post 3309944)
Its amazing how much they have tied up in the least valuable positions. They need to June 1 cut Deangelo and get Gross to take a paycut, or trade him to someone like SD for a 3rd. Then they need to move on from Beason next year and maybe Stewart too. They should be able to manipulate things a bit to sign a few guys if needed this year.

I also think they should trade Greg Hardy. They pay Johnson a ton(which he's worth), they have Alexander and are tight against the cap. THey can't pay Hardy. Miami for a 2nd and 3rd? They could really use the picks.

I agree with a lot for what you said, although I don't think they would get nearly that much for Hardy in a trade. But the point is, they need to do something. My team is cutting the fat and setting up for 2/14/13 because we have to.

y.f.s. 03-22-2013 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cigaro (Post 3309935)
Because Ron Rivera wasn't quoted just a couple of days ago saying we'd be considering trade offers for DeAngelo Williams.

You do realize that other teams may be hesitant to take these huge contracts onto their own salary cap, right? It's not as simple as saying hey, have this guy!

No offense, but you don't seem to be too aware of our actual situation. We simply don't have much cap mobility, no matter what we do.

That's the gist of it. Still a lot of dead money remaining on those contracts, so cutting guys doesn't offer much help either. If you're gonna pay them, might as well play them.

Nastradamus 03-22-2013 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black Bolt (Post 3309952)
I agree with a lot for what you said, although I don't think they would get nearly that much for Hardy in a trade. But the point is, they need to do something. My team is cutting the fat and setting up for 2/14/13 because we have to.

You think that's too much for Hardy? A guy going into his 4th year coming off double digit sacks? Maybe I'm gauging the market wrong I guess.

Cigaro 03-22-2013 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black Bolt (Post 3309948)
No offense, but I shouldn't know your team as good as you do, hench the QUESTION in the first place. What I do know is that last off season, you all did very little to improve the team outside of your great first round pick and trading for that bum Louis Murphy worked out just like I thought it would. This is the second off season with very little improvement, regardless of the money situation.

You are aware we have a new GM, right? What we did last offseason under Hurney can in no way be laid down on we're doing now under Gettleman. Gettleman walked into a ****** situation and is simply trying to navigate it as best as possible.

Black Bolt 03-22-2013 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cigaro (Post 3309927)
Guaranteed money. It means even if we cut a lot of these guys, we're still paying a lot for them. When you consider that and the fact that you generally don't want to dismantle a team when your young, franchise quarterback is supposed to begin hitting his stride.

The WR core is alright. Steve Smith is still fine to play, simply old. LaFell is a decent number two. We don't have much outside of those guys, but its very likely we draft a receiver, particularly at some point within the first two rounds. You can't look at the team before draft day and consider it the final product.

LaFell is not close to being a decent two. There are many threes and a few fours that are better than LaFell. A back up WR at Green Bay lead the NFL in touchdown receptions. And if you admit that you don't have much behind those two in a league in which passing is at an all time high, you situation is dire. I would love for Cam to get weapons, REAL weapons.

Black Bolt 03-22-2013 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nastradamus (Post 3310007)
You think that's too much for Hardy? A guy going into his 4th year coming off double digit sacks? Maybe I'm gauging the market wrong I guess.

Multiple pics for him? No way. I don't see anyone giving a #2 for him. Double digit sacks is nice, but he isn't even regarded as the best DE on his own team.

Nastradamus 03-22-2013 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black Bolt (Post 3310048)
Multiple pick for him? No way. I don't see anyone giving a #2 for him. Double digit sacks is nice, but he isn't even regarded as the best DE on his own team.

What does him being the best DE on his team have to do with anything???

The Alex 03-22-2013 03:01 PM

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/...competent-best

Read this and all will be revealed.

Cigaro 03-22-2013 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black Bolt (Post 3310045)
LaFell is not close to being a decent two. There are many threes and a few fours that are better than LaFell. A back up WR at Green Bay lead the NFL in touchdown receptions. And if you admit that you don't have much behind those two in a league in which passing is at an all time high, you situation is dire. I would love for Cam to get weapons, REAL weapons.

No, LaFell is a decent number two. From your own admission, I've doubt you've actually seen him play much.

He's never going to set the world on fire as a #2, he'll never make up any dynamic duo a la Jones and White, there are definitely better #2's out there but nonetheless he's a decent second option.

In addition, Greg Olsen is a big player in the passing game, it's not simply Smith or LaFell.

Caulibflower 03-22-2013 03:22 PM

Ticket sales, brah. The answer is "make money."

mightytitan9 03-22-2013 03:23 PM

In todays NFL, I just don't understand how you can warrant paying two players this type of money. I think the titans probably have the 2nd most invested in the RB position, (someone posted a website to see that a few months ago but I don't remember what it is)

Stewart 6yr/37m, 22.5 guaranteed.
Williams 5yr/43m, 21m guaranteed.
Total 80m, 43.5m guaranteed.

CJ 6 yr / 55m, 30m guaranteed
Greene 3yr / 10m, 4.5 guaranteed.
Total 55m, 34.5m guaranteed

I think the Panthers clearly have to do something about this. Sure they ranked 8th in the NFL in rushing, but they also have a QB who accounted for 1/3 of that total. When they drafted Cam many thought they would run the with the RBs and try to protect Cam, that was never the case and with how much they throw the ball there is no need to pay the RBs that much, that could be invested in WRs


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