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-   -   Jonathan Cooper vs. Mike Iupati (http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=56598)

Swoll_Cat 04-28-2013 07:14 AM

Jonathan Cooper vs. Mike Iupati
 
As far as a prospective grade is concerned, how does jcooper compare to iupati? cooper is an incredible talent and is just as intelligent as the next draft prospective is concerned. while cooper was the first G selected in the single digits, how does he compare to iupati? do the cardinals and other draft guru's expect to be as good if not better than iupati?

Babylon 04-28-2013 10:58 AM

Not sure about all the other drafts but i do know that John Hannah went 4th to the New England Patriots.

Seems like every year we get the greatest guard ever to come out. In recent years it's been Mike Pouncey, Mike Iupati and David DeCastro. This year we have two in Cooper and Warmack. Not sure their play is going to move the needle too much as far as getting a team over the top but nice to see them getting their just due.

I'll go with Warmack > Cooper > Iupati

VAfy-ya 04-28-2013 11:04 AM

I thought Iupati was the best OG prospect to come along since Hutch. Don't hold Cooper or Warmack in quite that regard. Great prospects though....only time will answer this question.

K Train 04-28-2013 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Babylon (Post 3350602)
Not sure about all the other drafts but i do know that John Hannah went 4th to the New England Patriots.

Seems like every year we get the greatest guard ever to come out. In recent years it's been Mike Pouncey, Mike Iupati and David DeCastro. This year we have two in Cooper and Warmack. Not sure their play is going to move the needle too much as far as getting a team over the top but nice to see them getting their just due.

I'll go with Warmack > Cooper > Iupati

ive said this a bunch...were obsessed with taking the best this year and making them the best in the last 10 years.

Id say Iupati and Fluker are similar as guard prospects, Fluker just actually has tackle potential on both the left and right, even though right is more likely

bigbuc 04-28-2013 12:14 PM

Espn had Cooper 1 point higher on a grade of 100. But I also think they're two different players Mike Iupati is more power and size to his game. Cooper has better movement skills.

And yes I would think the Cards see Cooper being the best player on their O Lien and going to pro bowls.

SeanTaylorRIP 04-28-2013 12:50 PM

Iupati physically had an edge which made him a rare OG prospect, but wouldn't shock me if Cooper is the better pro.

Babylon 04-28-2013 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by K Train (Post 3350680)
ive said this a bunch...were obsessed with taking the best this year and making them the best in the last 10 years.

Id say Iupati and Fluker are similar as guard prospects, Fluker just actually has tackle potential on both the left and right, even though right is more likely

I agree. Somehow we have to put a label on these guys and miss the big picture. You guys are pretty set on your interior with Pouncey and DeCastro.

Menardo75 04-28-2013 02:17 PM

Branden Albert is the best second level puller I've ever seen from the interior coming out of college. Cooper is the second best I've ever seen. I would give Iupati the edge because he is scheme versatile. He's powerful enough to thrive in a man blocking/ gap blocking scheme, and has the feet to play in a ZBS. Where Cooper is strictly a ZBS guy.

fenikz 04-28-2013 02:24 PM

Iupati should never play in a ZBS, he is stronger and better at the point of attack, but his feet are **** compared to Cooper

Iupati > Warmack > Cooper in a power running scheme(can we make PRS a thing so I dont have to type it out)

Cooper > Iupati > Warmack in a ZBS

Iupati = Cooper > Warmack at Pass Pro

SickwithIt1010 04-28-2013 02:31 PM

I still feel like DeCastro is better than all of em as far as being a prospect is concerned.

fenikz 04-28-2013 02:42 PM

ya idk why i forgot him :/

he isn't as strong as Iupati/Warmack or as athletic as Cooper but he is best combo of the two and had the best technique as a prospect

Brodeur 04-28-2013 02:49 PM

War Daddy is better than all of them. ALL. OF. THEM.

ph90702 04-28-2013 03:58 PM

Mike Iupati is the best.

cmarq83 04-28-2013 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SickwithIt1010 (Post 3350814)
I still feel like DeCastro is better than all of em as far as being a prospect is concerned.

I liked Zeitler better last year. He was the much better run blocker of the 2.

cmarq83 04-28-2013 04:27 PM

In terms of the Cooper vs. Iupati I'd have to go with Cooper. The ways UNC had him slide protect were very impressive. The guy has really impressive feat, and he potentially can be a tremendous asset in the screen game as well.

Iamcanadian 04-29-2013 07:02 PM

If Cooper or Warmack are better pros than Iupati, they will have to put them in the HOF today. Face it guys, they haven't played a down at the next level and your comparing them to the best in the NFL. Right now Cooper and Warmack = potential but no substance, Iupati = substance with potential realized.
The only reason Iupati didn't go higher in the draft was because he played for a small school and that will always drop you on draft day.
I love the potential of Cooper and Warmack but if I had my choice today, I'd take Iupati every day of the week.

mightytitan9 04-29-2013 07:06 PM

I think the Cooper love is getting a little excessive guys

LonghornsLegend 04-30-2013 07:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iamcanadian (Post 3352120)
Face it guys, they haven't played a down at the next level and your comparing them to the best in the NFL. Right now Cooper and Warmack = potential but no substance, Iupati = substance with potential realized.




Quote:

Originally Posted by Swoll_Cat (Post 3350496)
As far as a prospective grade is concerned



It helps to read the thread. All we do on this site and project and compare players, now somehow it's out of place?

BigBanger 05-13-2013 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iamcanadian (Post 3352120)
If Cooper or Warmack are better pros than Iupati, they will have to put them in the HOF today. Face it guys, they haven't played a down at the next level and your comparing them to the best in the NFL. Right now Cooper and Warmack = potential but no substance, Iupati = substance with potential realized.

I love the potential of Cooper and Warmack but if I had my choice today, I'd take Iupati every day of the week.

First things first. This is, as your usual, a very stupid post. I won't even address the first and last parts of your comment. Well, I guess I just did.

Quote:

The only reason Iupati didn't go higher in the draft was because he played for a small school and that will always drop you on draft day.
Iupati went in the Top 20. And for an offensive guard, that alone is uncommon. You have to be regarded as a potential All-Pro to go that high in the draft at that position. We're seeing more and more interior linemen go in the first round, but the Top 20 is usually reserved for, maybe, one interior linemen every draft.

So he didn't "drop" or fall on draft day, or really go any lower than he should have. He had elite potential. Iupati was very raw coming out of a small school. Yes he had overwhelming strength and power at the point of attack, but he had heavy feet and isn't all that great in space. He was more scheme specific. And he went to the ideal situation. If we remember, Iupati looked average at the Senior Bowl. His poor technique was exposed and he did a lot of grabbing / holding. He wasn't expected to come out and dominate from week one. Both Cooper and Warmack are more advanced when it comes to technique, but neither can come in and dominant an opposing linemen with brute strength from day one like Iupati could.

Iupati was going to be a solid pro from the get go, and an immediate starter because of his power. Its very rare for college players to hold up from a strength perspective in their rookie season. Even Suh struggled at the point of attack as a rookie despite having a great rookie campaign and being incredibly strong for a college player. But it was believed that Iupati was going to be inconsistent and struggle with speed, quickness and technicians. There was also concerns over coaching due to a language barrier. His career has unfolded exactly how most thought it would. Solid pro early who could develop into the premier offensive guard in the league within four years. And that's exactly what he's on pace for.

As much as I like Warmack and Cooper, I don't think either of them have the potential that Iupati possessed (that kind of rare Larry Allen-esque strength that just doesn't come around every year), but they could both be just as good as rookies and second year players.

I really liked David DeCastro and Kevin Zeitler last year. I think those two are just as good as Warmack / Cooper. 2012 had a ton of star power at the top with two elite QBs, a third QB that was pushed up into the Top 10, an elite OT, etc. 2013 didn't have the star power at the top, which is why the OGs went higher than normal.

The Pouncey brothers were just as good of prospects coming out. Ben Grubbs / Arron Sears as well. So I don't think any of these prospects were special in the sense that people say they're the best guard prospect in the last decade, but they were all worthy of Top 15 selections. It's just now becoming accepted for interior linemen to go that high because of those mid to late first round successes before them.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Swoll_Cat (Post 3350496)
As far as a prospective grade is concerned, how does jcooper compare to iupati? cooper is an incredible talent and is just as intelligent as the next draft prospective is concerned. while cooper was the first G selected in the single digits, how does he compare to iupati? do the cardinals and other draft guru's expect to be as good if not better than iupati?

I do think Cooper can be just as good as Iupati was during his first two years, but I don't think he has the same kind of potential long term. Cooper played way under 300 pounds for the last couple years so it will be interesting to see how his movement skills diminish with the added weight. His strength at the point of attack is vastly inferior than what Iupati possessed. If Cooper develops into a guy that goes to a handful of Pro Bowls, then the Cardinals should be happy, regardless, if he ever turns into an All-Pro. This isn't a bad selection like the Levi Brown pick was when Adrian Peterson was on the board. They could take Cooper at 7 because there was no Adrian Peterson type prospect in this draft. Warmack comes better to Iupati because they are more similar players. Those guys are better with wham blocks, combination blocks with your typical man-on-man, move people off the ball type blocking. That isn't Cooper's strength. He works better with angles and shielding lanes. His strength was working in space at the second level.

Eazy Picks 05-19-2013 02:17 PM

Well Iupati is a proven all-pro...gotta wait and see what Warmack and Cooper are made of

J-Mike88 05-19-2013 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iamcanadian (Post 3352120)
The only reason Iupati didn't go higher in the draft was because he played for a small school and that will always drop you on draft day.

While I love to read the insults back & forth between you guys, Eric Fisher takes exception with that statement.
He couldn't have gone any higher.

descendency 05-19-2013 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Menardo75 (Post 3350794)
Branden Albert

Which is why he would have been a tackle if he it weren't for Eugene Monroe and D'Brickashaw Ferguson.

Iamcanadian 05-24-2013 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VAfy-ya (Post 3350611)
I thought Iupati was the best OG prospect to come along since Hutch. Don't hold Cooper or Warmack in quite that regard. Great prospects though....only time will answer this question.

I agree and he would have been drafted much higher if he played for a football power instead of a small college. It is similar to Jerry Rice who didn't get picked too high in round 1 because he played for Mississippi Valley St., teams could see the possible greatness but only great GM's took the chance and drafted them because they weren't fooled by the school they played for and could clearly see the talent both men had.

Iamcanadian 05-24-2013 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J-Mike88 (Post 3367901)
While I love to read the insults back & forth between you guys, Eric Fisher takes exception with that statement.
He couldn't have gone any higher.

Yeah, but it is a lot harder for an OG to get drafted high and he also played for a much smaller school as far as football is concerned.


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