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-   -   How Good is Johnny Manziel? (http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=56750)

Babylon 05-22-2013 03:04 PM

How Good is Johnny Manziel?
 
I expect he'll be a little differant in style this year, a little more bulked up and better with his footwork. Size wise there are plenty of success stories of guys his size or smaller so not sure that is an issue. Arm seems a little underrated but not great.

I see Manziel as the wildcard as far as QBs go and having the potential to be taken right at the top of the draft.

Monomach 05-22-2013 03:18 PM

I'm sticking with the unpopular thing I said at the end of the season: "It's going to take some serious conditioning and deep accuracy work to make him an NFL player in ANY round."

If he declares for the draft looking like he did last season, he's going to be the latest footnote in the enormous book of college-only QBs.

jrdrylie 05-22-2013 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monomach (Post 3370138)
I'm sticking with the unpopular thing I said at the end of the season: "It's going to take some serious conditioning and deep accuracy work to make him an NFL player in ANY round."

If he declares for the draft looking like he did last season, he's going to be the latest footnote in the enormous book of college-only QBs.

I agree with pretty much all of this. But from listening to him, it sounds like he is very seriously considering declaring.

MassNole 05-22-2013 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jrdrylie (Post 3370139)
I agree with pretty much all of this. But from listening to him, it sounds like he is very seriously considering declaring.

Agreed with the last 2 assessments, he is a good college QB with no real NFL future. He plays in a system offense that puts up gawdy numbers that distract people from the fact he doesn't have close to the discipline needed to be a good NFL QB (or even average). He has never come across as being very bright either, so leaving early isn't shocking.

jrdrylie 05-22-2013 03:46 PM

I think people want to compare him with Russell Wilson. A short athletic QB had success so we should stop looking at size as a negative. But that isn't how it works. Anquan Boldin being an extremely successful receiver despite running a 4.7 doesn't mean we shouldn't care if future receivers run slowly.

brat316 05-22-2013 03:56 PM

Boldin ran on a bad knee.

Wilson was a pocket passer, who had good accuracy but way always knocked for his height. His work ethic was like non other, and knew how to find the throwing lane between his line.

Johnny, well let me watch some on him. All I know he scrambles and throws.

princefielder28 05-22-2013 04:01 PM

Manziel is a terrific college quarterback, but his pro future will not be quite as promising. I see him translating to a Jeff Garcia type QB in the NFL.

Monomach 05-22-2013 04:02 PM

Yeah, someone brought up Russell Wilson in the old Manziel thread. Confused me because they're not so similar. Wilson was a better passer, is more intelligent as far as avoiding contact, and has arms that are practically the size of Manziel's legs. Seriously, they're not in the same ballpark when it comes to dat hit-absorbing lean mass.




Babylon 05-22-2013 04:06 PM

I think if you look at his size, arm and impact on a football game I think he compares to someone like a Joe Montana. As to what that means as far as where you get drafted it's hard to say. Obviously in hindsight it translates to the top of the draft.

jrdrylie 05-22-2013 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Babylon (Post 3370191)
I think if you look at his size, arm and impact on a football game I think he compares to someone like a Joe Montana. As to what that means as far as where you get drafted it's hard to say. Obviously in hindsight it translates to the top of the draft.

Ehhh, Montana was 6'2. While Manziel is listed as 6'1, I doubt he actually ends up that tall.

FUNBUNCHER 05-22-2013 04:14 PM

This is a very scary photo. Chris Paul is 5'11 in socks. Standing next to Manziel, who's taller??


Next to Teo who measured 6'1 at the combine, Manziel looks under 6 foot to me.

Babylon 05-22-2013 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER (Post 3370204)
This is a very scary photo. Chris Paul is 5'11 in socks. Standing next to Manziel, who's taller??


Next to Teo who measured 6'1 at the combine, Manziel looks under 6 foot to me.

I think Paul was 5-11 3/4 Pre draft.

My Guess is Johnny will measure 6-0 210 at the combine. SEC defenses would probably be the first to say he's big enough.

MassNole 05-22-2013 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jrdrylie (Post 3370202)
Ehhh, Montana was 6'2. While Manziel is listed as 6'1, I doubt he actually ends up that tall.

By and large at the time most NFL players were smaller though, so 6'2 back then would be like 6'4 today.

jrdrylie 05-22-2013 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Babylon (Post 3370219)
I think Paul was 5-11 3/4 Pre draft.

My Guess is Johnny will measure 6-0 210 at the combine. SEC defenses would probably be the first to say he's big enough.

This does not compute. Paul was 5'11 3/4. Manziel is pictured being shorter than Paul. Thus Manziel will measure taller than Paul.

FUNBUNCHER 05-22-2013 04:51 PM

That 5'11 3/4 for Paul was measured in shoes BTW.
I think Manziel is just a hair taller than 5'11.

BallerT1215 05-22-2013 05:12 PM

As of today, I don't think he is a NFL starting QB. The size and lack of arm strength are very concerning. When you watch him play, he is definitely fun to watch because he seems to make a play 95% of the time whether it's buying more time to throw or actually taking off with the ball. That being said, I'm not a big fan of his pro potential.

BamaFalcon59 05-22-2013 05:17 PM

Russell Wilson also had five years in college to develop his QB skills and his body. Manziel has had two thus far.

That said, would not draft.

MassNole 05-22-2013 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BallerT1215 (Post 3370295)
As of today, I don't think he is a NFL starting QB. The size and lack of arm strength are very concerning. When you watch him play, he is definitely fun to watch because he seems to make a play 95% of the time whether it's buying more time to throw or actually taking off with the ball. That being said, I'm not a big fan of his pro potential.

The Ty Detmer comparison Gary Danielson made is spot on.

yo123 05-22-2013 08:10 PM

Isn't Doug Flutie the obvious comparison? What makes Manziel different from him?

Halsey 05-22-2013 08:27 PM

I haven't seen any of bad QB comparisons being made that can do what Manziel did vs the likes of Alabama, Florida, LSU, Oklahoma, etc.

SolidGold 05-22-2013 08:42 PM

I'd take Manziel over Boyd who many are confusingly hyping as a potential first rounder next year. He has more than enough arm strength to make the throws and his athletic ability is very rare for the position.

K Train 05-22-2013 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MassNole (Post 3370440)
The Ty Detmer comparison Gary Danielson made is spot on.

Man, that is freakishly spot on. It doesnt mean the same exact fate for him, but it doesnt make a case for him either

Quote:

Originally Posted by Halsey (Post 3370497)
I haven't seen any of bad QB comparisons being made that can do what Manziel did vs the likes of Alabama, Florida, LSU, Oklahoma, etc.

I think we say this a lot about recent players in forgetting the old ones because they flamed out to nothing

keylime_5 05-22-2013 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SolidGold (Post 3370515)
I'd take Manziel over Boyd who many are confusingly hyping as a potential first rounder next year. He has more than enough arm strength to make the throws and his athletic ability is very rare for the position.

I wouldn't. Tajh Boyd is a top 5 pick if he was an inch or two taller. He is a great pocket passer who has an excellent arm and great pocket presence. He's more like Russell Wilson than Manziel.

gpngc 05-22-2013 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monomach (Post 3370181)
Yeah, someone brought up Russell Wilson in the old Manziel thread. Confused me because they're not so similar. Wilson was a better passer, is more intelligent as far as avoiding contact, and has arms that are practically the size of Manziel's legs. Seriously, they're not in the same ballpark when it comes to dat hit-absorbing lean mass.




Manziel is still a kid, Wilson is a grown man with 5 years lifting weights as a pro athlete.

They have many striking similarities.

Height.
Unique scrambling ability. (not running, scrambling)
Not a dynamite arm but can make all the throws.

Manziel was so smart and accurate by the end of the season last year it was scary.

His arm is legit. People just want to label him lazily for some reason. He can spin it as well as anyone in the nation. Deep ball touch is excellent. He's got literally everything except an ideal frame.

One difference is probably intelligence/presence on the field but Manziel is still just a kid and Wilson is an all-pro caliber NFL QB...

K Train 05-22-2013 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gpngc (Post 3370578)
Manziel is still a kid, Wilson is a grown man with 5 years lifting weights as a pro athlete.

They have many striking similarities.

Height.
Unique scrambling ability. (not running, scrambling)
Not a dynamite arm but can make all the throws.

Manziel was so smart and accurate by the end of the season last year it was scary.

His arm is legit. People just want to label him lazily for some reason. He can spin it as well as anyone in the nation. Deep ball touch is excellent. He's got literally everything except an ideal frame.

One difference is probably intelligence/presence on the field but Manziel is still just a kid and Wilson is an all-pro caliber NFL QB...

jesus.....dont jump on that bandwagon too hard, youll break it


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