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-   -   What Did I Miss on Stanford OLB Chase Thomas? (http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=56789)

bornnraisedwhodat 05-28-2013 03:52 PM

What Did I Miss on Stanford OLB Chase Thomas?
 
I was stoked when my Saints got him in UDFA immediately following the draft.

But I still dont understand why he went undrafted. In my analysis of him, I though he was a very good well rounded player. Obviously not a flashy pass rusher who will give 15 sacks a year, but a solid player who can give you a good pass rush from the edge and on stunts, very good vs the run and containing the edge, very servicable in coverage, played with great effort and motor, was a leader, coaches loved him, played smart with good instincts. I had him has a mid-3rd round guy at the earliest, late 4th round at the latest. Matter of fact, when the Saints traded back into the 3rd round I was hoping they were trading up to get him, but we took John Jenkins who I also liked.

Early reports out of Saints camp have been positive. Someone I know who lives next door to Rob Ryan, said Rob raved about him and he has been getting snaps with the 2's and 3's early on.

Just curious as to what you Draft Guru's think, why he went undrafted? Was it his poor 40-time? I saw some say he didnt excell in the 4-3 scheme in the senior bowl.

niel89 05-28-2013 04:11 PM

He just didn't test out athletically that well. I watched for the past few years at Stanford and he was clearly better than an UDFA. The guy made a lot of plays in college. He should be a solid pro I'd think. Not an elite rusher but I think he could get you 5-9 sacks as a complementary rusher.

MassNole 05-28-2013 04:35 PM

Sometimes players for no good reason just fall through the cracks. I am as avid of a FSU fan on here as you'll find, I cannot tell you how Nick Moody got drafted as Chase Thomas did not. Thomas may not be a freak, but sometimes you still make one helluva of a football player. I think in 3-4 years Chase Thomas going undrafted will be one of the biggest WTF's from this Draft.

Caulibflower 05-28-2013 06:12 PM

This is how I feel about Phillip Steward, except he tested well athletically to boot. Seemed to have some scouting buzz, too. Excerpted from a blogger who'd been talking to a scout in March: "Houston LB Phillip Steward also made a positive impression on this scout during the season, much moreso than I anticipated. He raved about Steward’s cover skills and natural instincts in the passing game. “There’s not many college linebackers that have a feel for passing routes like (Steward).” The 26 bench press reps earlier in the day made an impression, as the biggest knock on Steward is his lack of size and strength. He is small at 6’0.4” and 237 pounds (up from 230) but showed off 4.6 speed and very smooth in position drills. The scout gave me an interesting comparison for Steward: Dannell Ellerbee. His team will consider Steward as early as the 5th round."

but he didn't get drafted. He did have a lot of teams interested in him, however, and ultimately decided to join the Rams, where he's getting noted for things like a one-handed interception in team drills. Don't know how some of these guys manage to get passed over so many times. It's the like the teams that know they're good must just have other options on their boards or higher needs at other positions.

Iamcanadian 05-28-2013 06:23 PM

UDFA from major schools rarely ever amount to anything, you want small college guys who may have slipped through the net.

As for Thomas, I was surprised he went undrafted, perhaps there were medical reasons. He doesn't have a lot of burst going downfield and his range is very limited. Probably best suited to play ILBer in a 3-4 because he can shed blocks and is a solid tackler.

FUNBUNCHER 05-28-2013 08:56 PM

I think teams got to focused on who Chase Thomas wasn't(Clay Matthews III/Von Miller) instead of who he was as a football player.

Chase Thomas has enough overall skills, physical tools and smarts to be a starter one day soon in the NFL. That alone should have merited being selected in one of the 7 rounds.

CashmoneyDrew 05-28-2013 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iamcanadian (Post 3374577)
UDFA from major schools rarely ever amount to anything, you want small college guys who may have slipped through the net.

Signed,

Cameron Wake, Arian Foster, Wes Welker, Danny Amendola, Jeff Saturday, Jason Peters, Ryan Grant, etc.

DeadEagle 05-28-2013 09:23 PM

This league is seeing more and more speed needed at LB, OLB's who can run with tailbacks and rush outside, and MLB's who can hang with TE's and get deep drops in coverage.


Chase Thomas is quick and smart, but him running an OG-like forty in Indy hurt him alot in the draft. His tools may well allow him a solid career, but it hurt his stock enough to scare teams away 7 times each.

Babylon 05-28-2013 11:02 PM

Probably would have been zero complaints had Thomas been a 4th or 5th rounder so I guess most of us got it wrong. Should be a good rotational guy in a 3-4 defense. Rob Ninkovic type player.

SolidGold 05-29-2013 02:14 AM

He put up better "athletic" measureables than Jarvis Jones and had was a very productive player in his own right

Don Vito 05-29-2013 06:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CashmoneyDrew (Post 3374670)
Signed,

Cameron Wake, Arian Foster, Wes Welker, Danny Amendola, Jeff Saturday, Jason Peters, Ryan Grant, etc.


AcheTen (Thumper) 05-29-2013 08:09 AM

You didn't miss anything.

I think he will be a perennial Pro Bowl player at the OLB position for years to come. Classic case of a team undervaluing hard-working, talented, athletically GOOD but not ELITE player who was the best player on one of college football's best defenses last year.

K Train 05-29-2013 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iamcanadian (Post 3374577)
UDFA from major schools rarely ever amount to anything, you want small college guys who may have slipped through the net.

.

dafukkkk???

SunTzu_22 05-29-2013 08:37 PM

Nowadays I think many teams look for linebackers that has one or more "special" or "unique" traits, and that hurts the stock of a guy like Thomas come draft day. The LB position in it self isnīt valued very high by teams, and when looking for LBs in the later rounds teams seem to look for the guys with greater upside because they possess great size, athleticism or something of that sort, thereby overlooking some of the more solid, but not nearly as flashy prospects. In that regard he reminds me of guys like Audie Cole last year, and AJ Klein and John Simon this year.
Chase Thomas isnīt the biggest, strongest or fastest guy. He is, to use one of my favourite football cliches, "just a good football player".
Personally, I wouldnt be surprised if the Saints got a steal when they signed him.He might never be an all star, but I can see him be a solid starter for a number of years.

Iamcanadian 05-29-2013 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CashmoneyDrew (Post 3374670)
Signed,

Cameron Wake, Arian Foster, Wes Welker, Danny Amendola, Jeff Saturday, Jason Peters, Ryan Grant, etc.

Still, a pretty small list considering the thousand FA's signed in a decade. Less than 1% I believe.

Caulibflower 05-30-2013 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iamcanadian (Post 3375546)
Still, a pretty small list considering the thousand FA's signed in a decade. Less than 1% I believe.

Want to throw out a list of those small school guys you're talking about? Let's see how they stack up.

descendency 05-30-2013 10:07 AM

I have to believe it was medical related. Something that didn't cause him to miss games but causes teams to worry about his future in the NFL.

He was a mid round pick so if you saw a medical issue, I could see him coming off boards.

CashmoneyDrew 05-30-2013 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iamcanadian (Post 3375546)
Still, a pretty small list considering the thousand FA's signed in a decade. Less than 1% I believe.

That wasn't the point you were trying to make.

MassNole 05-30-2013 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CashmoneyDrew (Post 3375824)
That wasn't the point you were trying to make.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iamcanadian (Post 3374577)
UDFA from major schools rarely ever amount to anything, you want small college guys who may have slipped through the net.


It really was. There are a few exceptions to the rule, but by and large the most successful UFA's come from small colleges. It does happen where BCS players go undrafted and then have stellar even HOF careers, but those players are very few and very far between.

Then of the players you listed were 2 WRs from the definition of a system offense, a player honed his craft in the CFL before going to the NFL, and a Center. IIRC Ryan Grant was pretty injury prone at Notre Dame, or at least had some off the field issues while there. Arian Foster was also coming off a season where his numbers were cut in half from his Junior season (I don't remember if it was Injuries, Disciplinary, or something in between at UT). Of all those players, Chase Thomas not being drafted is easily the most surprising.

Caulibflower 05-30-2013 03:50 PM

Notable UFAs from D-1A schools (year they entered the league):

TE Antontio Gates - Kent State (2003) 8x Pro Bowl & 3x First-Team All-Pro
WR/RET Josh Cribbs - Kent State (2005) 2x Pro Bowl & 1 First-Team All-Pro
LB James Harrison - Kent State (2002) 5x Pro Bowl & 2x First-Team All-Pro
C Jeff Saturday - North Carolina (1999) 6x Pro Bowl & 2x First-Team All-Pro
Brian Waters - North Texas (2000) 6x Pro Bowl and 2x First-Team All-Pro
RB Arian Foster - Tennessee (2009) 3x Pro Bowl & 1 First-Team All-Pro
RB Priest Holmes - Texas (1997) 3x Pro Bowl & 3x First-Team All-Pro
WR Wes Welker - Texas Tech (2004) 5 Pro Bowl & 2x First-Team All-Pro
QB Warren Moon - Washington (1984) 9x Pro Bowl

D-1AA or lower:

G Larry Little - Bethune-Cookman (1967) 5x Pro Bowl & 5x First-Team All-Pro
QB Tony Romo - Eastern Illinois (2004) 3x Pro Bowl
CB Willie Brown - Grambling State (1963) 9x Pro Bowl & 5x First-Team All-Pro
WR Wayne Chrebet - Hofstra (1995)
LB London Fletcher - John Carroll (1998) 3x Pro Bowl
WR Rod Smith - Missouri Southern (1995) 3x Pro Bowl
QB Kurt Warner - Northern Iowa (1998) 4x Pro Bowl & 2x First-Team All-Pro
S Donnie Shell - South Carolina State (1974) 5x Pro Bowl & 3x First-Team All-Pro
K Adam Vinatieri - South Dakota State (1996) 2x Pro Bowl & 2x First-Team All-Pro
DT John Randle - Texas A&M-Kingsville (1990) 7x Pro Bowl & 6x First-Team All-Pro

CashmoneyDrew 05-30-2013 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MassNole (Post 3375908)
It really was. There are a few exceptions to the rule, but by and large the most successful UFA's come from small colleges. It does happen where BCS players go undrafted and then have stellar even HOF careers, but those players are very few and very far between.

Then of the players you listed were 2 WRs from the definition of a system offense, a player honed his craft in the CFL before going to the NFL, and a Center. IIRC Ryan Grant was pretty injury prone at Notre Dame, or at least had some off the field issues while there. Arian Foster was also coming off a season where his numbers were cut in half from his Junior season (I don't remember if it was Injuries, Disciplinary, or something in between at UT). Of all those players, Chase Thomas not being drafted is easily the most surprising.

I'm not sure what the point of your second paragraph is because all of it is completely immaterial. The point isn't why they ended up undrafted or how they got to the league. The point is that they came from major colleges, went undrafted, and then made an impact in the NFL.

And sure, "major" college players rarely make it as undrafted free agents. That's because almost all undrafted free agents rarely make an impact, including the small school guys. Just because they're from a small school doesn't mean that they have a better shot of making it compared to major school players.

To pursue UDFA's based solely off of where they went to school is, for lack of a better term, ********.

WCH 05-30-2013 05:23 PM

Antonio Gates absolutely does not count.

Caulibflower 05-30-2013 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WCH (Post 3375999)
Antonio Gates absolutely does not count.

Hahahaha. I know.

K Train 05-30-2013 05:47 PM

But the thing that was said was they rarely ever amount to ANYTHING, theres a lot of middle of the pack players undrafted from big school

Willie Parker UNC
Jason Peters Arkansas
Danny Amendola Texas Tech
Ramon Foster Tennessee
Benjarvus Green-Ellis Ole Miss
Alex Boone Ohio State
Pat Williams Texas AM
Ryan Clark LSU
Cullen Jenkins Central Mich
Antonio Pierce Arizona
LaGarrette Blount Oregon
Donald Penn Utah St.
Vontaze Burfict Arizona st
Selvin Young Texas

Thats just off the top of my head, not many start players up there but solid players who had or are having at least decent careers

Its easy to look at a list of undrafted FAs and not see many stars, but think about looking at a list of the draft....its not like every pick works out. You go through a lot of the 3rd-7th rounds of previous drafts and theres a ton of players who flamed out to nothing or you completely forget about because they are nobodies

descendency 05-30-2013 06:29 PM

Percentages are misleading as players from major colleges will get more interest (especially if they are part of a good unit) because they are viewed as more proven.

There are other biases (like playing near guys that are good) that cause interest to increase in guys at major programs. It's far more likely that you are playing next to a 4-5 star recruit at LSU than Louisiana Lafayette.


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