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-   -   Dashon Goldson Dirty Player? (http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=57407)

Eazy Picks 09-19-2013 07:36 PM

Dashon Goldson Dirty Player?
 
My opinion of Goldson has always been that he is one of the league's most ferocious hitters, but also one of the cleanest hitters in the game. I live in the bay area and have watched him his entire career, and have always admired how well he timed his hits and have always felt that he got incorrectly flagged a lot because of the sheer force of his hits. I cant tell you how many times I have seen him flagged for what I thought were great hits where he hit the guy so damn hard I guess the ref just thought he had to throw the flag. Two games into the season, and he has already drawn fines both weeks and narrowly avoided a suspension...And now this

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/96...dson-hit-dirty

I cant seem to find a video clip of the hit. I looked on the net and couldnt find it, I looked on NFL game rewind, and could only find 1 play where Sproles was tackled by Goldson, and I didnt really see anything dirty about that play. Anyone who saw the play? Any thoughts? Is the NFL out of control with its rules about hitting receivers? Am I wrong in my assessment that Goldson is a clean hitter with a bad rep? Drew Brees basically called him a headhunter in a press conference this week, and the NFL is obviously looking at him as a repeat offender.

phlysac 09-19-2013 08:22 PM

I've regularly defended Goldson for exactly as you described.

I believe he proved his point to the NFL as well as they've lifted his suspension.

The hit on Sproles though was definitely unnecessary. Sproles was wrapped up, going down and Goldson lined him up helmet-to-helmet. No video but found a still shot.


Ness 09-19-2013 09:06 PM

I don't think he's a dirty player. He just likes to set a tone for the defense.

BallerT1215 09-19-2013 11:18 PM

I don't think so either - that's why I found Brees' comments kind of surprising.

phlysac 09-19-2013 11:39 PM

But, as John Lynch mentioned, the hit on Sproles may have been unnecessary, but realistically, what could he have done differently?

Sproles is 5'7"/8", bending at the waist and leaning towards the ground. How is Goldson supposed to hit him lower?

phlysac 09-19-2013 11:43 PM

And he has been routinely flagged for hits such as this one. This even got him a $30K fine.



So, he's being fined and almost suspended for being a "repeat offender" but how many of these flagged "offenses" were actually illegal hits?

BigBanger 09-20-2013 03:39 AM

Brandon Meriweather is a dirty player. His hit on Eddie Lacey deserves a suspension because he made the same type of hit a few years ago. I think it was on Todd Heap of the Ravens. Where he intentionally drops his head and leads with the crown of his helmet as both players with jumping in the air and completely defenseless. Those types of hits I don't mind being punished even if former great safeties like John Lynch made a career out of of those kind of hits. I can understand that portion of flags and fines and suspensions.

This Goldson hit... Sproles is tiny, going to the ground and Goldson is leading with his shoulder, not his helmet. I saw the highlight a couple days ago. The picture posted in this thread even shows that he's turning his helmet away from the contact (actually putting himself (Goldson) at risk of getting injured if Sproles lowered his head... Then Sproles would be leading into him with the crown of his helmet). This is a clean hit. The NFL needs to start addressing obviously intentional hits like Meriweather and punishing those types of players. Not hits like this one and the Bernard Pollards hit from last week.

EDIT: That hit that phlysac posted is the idea of a perfect hit. Directly into the players chest attempting to separate player from ball. That is textbook.

phlysac 09-20-2013 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigBanger (Post 3451451)
That hit that phlysac posted is the idea of a perfect hit. Directly into the players chest attempting to separate player from ball. That is textbook.

Agree. Yet it was flagged, and Goldson was fined $30,000. It's one of the hits that has him declared a "repeat offender."

Ness 09-20-2013 12:20 PM

The NFL just wants money. It's ridiculous how often Goldson keeps getting fined.

bigbuc 09-20-2013 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phlysac (Post 3451401)
And he has been routinely flagged for hits such as this one. This even got him a $30K fine.



So, he's being fined and almost suspended for being a "repeat offender" but how many of these flagged "offenses" were actually illegal hits?

That first hit shouldn't have been a flag or fine. The guy did was he was paid 8 million season to do. He didn't even hit him in the head. That was textbook.

CC.SD 09-20-2013 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ness (Post 3451665)
The NFL just wants money. It's ridiculous how often Goldson keeps getting fined.

Don't the fines go to charity? That's why I never really have a problem with any of these...oh no a rich athlete loses 1/20th of a game check and 50 families get to eat for a week. The horror, the horror...

Ness 09-20-2013 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CC.SD (Post 3451901)
Don't the fines go to charity? That's why I never really have a problem with any of these...oh no a rich athlete loses 1/20th of a game check and 50 families get to eat for a week. The horror, the horror...

I heard that too, but do they really? How much of them go to charity? We're seeing more and more fines crop up every single year.

I always think of this rant in situations like these.


J-Mike88 09-20-2013 05:19 PM

He's dirty and I posted a few pictures and videos last year before a game where he went into knees with his head, which I consider far worse than the one to Sproles.

I'm not going to take time now to look for it again.

Delmas is the only other guy I've seen go low like that more than Dashon. I'm glad the NFL has their eye on him.

bucfan12 09-20-2013 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phlysac (Post 3451401)
And he has been routinely flagged for hits such as this one. This even got him a $30K fine.



So, he's being fined and almost suspended for being a "repeat offender" but how many of these flagged "offenses" were actually illegal hits?

I didn't find this one illegal at all. He comes over the middle and puts a shoulder to the chest to force an incompletion. That is not a head hunting play.

Have mixed reviews on the one to Sproles and his 2nd one to Stephen hill in the Jets game, but this was a clean hard hit that the Refs just panicked. Not one part did I see him launch himself and aim for the head.

bucfan12 09-20-2013 08:42 PM

I see the point on Sproles. I didn't find it neccessary, but then again, we're at game speed here and Sproles is 5-6 inches shorter.

Also, Drew Brees has no room to talk. Ever hear of Bounty Gate? I know Sean Payton has :)

phlysac 09-21-2013 12:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J-Mike88 (Post 3451953)
He's dirty and I posted a few pictures and videos last year before a game where he went into knees with his head, which I consider far worse than the one to Sproles.

I'm not going to take time now to look for it again.

Delmas is the only other guy I've seen go low like that more than Dashon. I'm glad the NFL has their eye on him.

Probably talking about the absolutely clean hit above the knee pad to Jets TE Dedrick Epps.

I posted still shots. He hit him above the knee. just looked ugly because Epps hyper-extended.

Eazy Picks 09-21-2013 03:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phlysac (Post 3451401)
And he has been routinely flagged for hits such as this one. This even got him a $30K fine.



So, he's being fined and almost suspended for being a "repeat offender" but how many of these flagged "offenses" were actually illegal hits?

yea i swear i felt like he got flagged for hits like this all the time. i actually read an interesting tackle about Goldsons coach from his childhood and how he taught him to tackle with proper form, and how Goldson maintains fantastic fundamentals and thats what allows him to deliver such big hits while rarely making illegal hits in today's NFL. But the league flags and fines him anyways just cuz his hits are so jarring.


also great rant by schlereth, gotta love it, and hes speaking the truth too.

Guru 09-21-2013 04:01 PM

I think people for the most part don't realize how fast these guys play and how impossible it is to really control yourself when playing full speed. When your job is to tackle, and you are going full bore and someone tackles another player a split second prior to you getting there and you are going for a form tackle (low, with your shoulder) and the other player shrinks up and leans forward, it's impossible to avoid head to head collisions. It's just part of the game and I don't know what the heck they want these guys to do...? You can't hit high... So you go low.... and the back goes low because of another person tripping him up, how do you avoid that? It's ridiculous to even call someone dirty for those types of hits. FFS Just put flags on them already.

OzTitan 09-21-2013 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ness (Post 3451665)
The NFL just wants money. It's ridiculous how often Goldson keeps getting fined.

They want a track record of evidence showing they are trying to stop "unsafe" play. They want a stat they can point to and say "this is how much we fined players for safety violations. We're trying here, the players aren't".

OzTitan 09-21-2013 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guru (Post 3452354)
I think people for the most part don't realize how fast these guys play and how impossible it is to really control yourself when playing full speed. When your job is to tackle, and you are going full bore and someone tackles another player a split second prior to you getting there and you are going for a form tackle (low, with your shoulder) and the other player shrinks up and leans forward, it's impossible to avoid head to head collisions. It's just part of the game and I don't know what the heck they want these guys to do...? You can't hit high... So you go low.... and the back goes low because of another person tripping him up, how do you avoid that? It's ridiculous to even call someone dirty for those types of hits. FFS Just put flags on them already.

A lot of these hits are instinctive. Putting on a face mask doesn't mean a human will suddenly be comfortable with leading into physical contact with their faces upright. And hitting hard in a collision sport like the NFL without lowering your head is basically impossible.

The reality is, the difference between a clean and dirty hit as the league sees it now is sheer luck on where contact is actually made. Anyone with any sense can see that a helmet to helmet hit can easily be the outcome without intention, and likely is the outcome without the intention for the vast majority of cases. It's a random outcome.

The league doesn't want players to play safer necessarily. They know they can thank the physical nature of the sport for their premier position in pro US sports. They want to be seen to be doing something though, and suspensions are not ideal as they remove key players from games, damaging the product. Fines are preferable because they don't do that, and their impact on changing behavior I suspect is questionable at best. All it ends up doing is taking money away from players for doing what is instinctive.

Ness 09-21-2013 10:54 PM

I still can't believe he got fined for this hit. The NFL is just fining people to fine people it seems. And once you get a reputation you already have a target on your back. Most of his hits that he's been fined for have been clean, hard nosed football. The Darren Sproles one was the only one where he went for the head. Oh well. At least he blasted Aaron Hernandez's punk ass.

Goldson has never been a dirty player though.




Guru 09-21-2013 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ness (Post 3452565)
I still can't believe he got fined for this hit. The NFL is just fining people to fine people it seems. And once you get a reputation you already have a target on your back. Most of his hits that he's been fined for have been clean, hard nosed football. The Darren Sproles one was the only one where he went for the head. Oh well. At least he blasted Aaron Hernandez's punk ass.

Goldson has never been a dirty player though.




Yeah, that is bs. Like I said just put flags on them.

bantx 09-21-2013 11:37 PM

All these new rules and fines has really killed my interest in football the past few years. I slowly just get tired of rule changes and how soft the league has gotten. I used to love seeing the big hits and celebrations, it was one of my favorite part of football growing up and seeing those things. It's what made me love the sport, but now it doesn't excite me as much as it used to.

J-Mike88 10-05-2013 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bantx (Post 3452573)
All these new rules and fines has really killed my interest in football the past few years. I slowly just get tired of rule changes and how soft the league has gotten.

Soft huh?
Really? Go out there one play, see how soft it is.

Speaking of helmet to helmet hits, check this one out by an 11-year old league here in Texas. http://www.wfaa.com/news/texas-news/...elmet-hit.html

After replaying the video time and time, and pausing it at contact, I don't think it was dirty. He barely lowered his head. Sure, his eyes were down, so he led with the crown instead of head/eyes up, but it wasn't that bad.

But the result was, fractured spine. Why not put some padding on the outside of the helmet, soften the initial blows?

brat316 10-05-2013 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J-Mike88 (Post 3464624)
Soft huh?
Really? Go out there one play, see how soft it is.

Speaking of helmet to helmet hits, check this one out by an 11-year old league here in Texas. http://www.wfaa.com/news/texas-news/...elmet-hit.html

After replaying the video time and time, and pausing it at contact, I don't think it was dirty. He barely lowered his head. Sure, his eyes were down, so he led with the crown instead of head/eyes up, but it wasn't that bad.

But the result was, fractured spine. Why not put some padding on the outside of the helmet, soften the initial blows?

because some people believe that putting padding on the outside will make the force travel to the spine rather than absorb the impact to where the helmet it.


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