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-   -   Yahoo! Columnist: If Bridgewater is Sliding in Your Mock... (http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=59011)

slats7 04-29-2014 02:03 PM

Yahoo! Columnist: If Bridgewater is Sliding in Your Mock...
 
Teddy Bridgewater's draft stock is falling, and there's no good reason why

By Eric Adelson April 27, 2014 9:41 PM Yahoo Sports


NFL draft experts like to talk about "measurables" at this time of here. So here's one:

Four.

That's the number of interceptions thrown in the entire 2013 season by Teddy Bridgewater. Four interceptions against 31 touchdowns. A year ago, that kind of season would have only reinforced the widely held belief that Bridgewater was a top-two pick in the 2014 draft.

Instead, he's plummeting.

Mike Mayock of NFL Network said this weekend he would not take Bridgewater in the first round; Mayock was formerly very high on the former Louisville star.

Mayock's not alone. The consensus on Bridgewater has veered from highly coveted to highly criticized in the months since he threw for three touchdowns and 447 yards in the Russell Athletic Bowl against Miami. The change in regard for Bridgewater is getting beyond the realm of the curious. It's more in the neighborhood of ridiculous.

NFL cognoscenti seem to flock together: It's a copycat league. Strangely, though, there's little copying of what works among quarterbacks at the pro level. Football minds keep gravitating to the quarterbacks who show unrefined physical prowess over those who have a clear track record on the field. You'd think GMs would learn their lesson after watching Tom Brady and Drew Brees win Super Bowls. Instead, the chase seems to be on for the next Jeff George. Only a month or so after Bridgewater finished his college career, Russell Wilson won the Super Bowl with the Seahawks. Wilson also had four interceptions in his final college season at Wisconsin, against 33 touchdowns. His completion percentage (72.8) was also comparable to Bridgewater's (71.0). Wilson went in the third round, and most thought he would be a first-round pick if he were just a little bit taller. Bridgewater is just a little bit taller: 6-foot-2 to Wilson's 5-11. Is it a second chance to draft a seasoned passer like Wilson?

Or is it a second chance to whiff? Bridgewater is drifting in credibility while former Pitt quarterback Tom Savage, who transferred twice and never got close to the statistical display shown consistently by Bridgewater, is perhaps the hottest name in the draft. Savage is 6-5 with a big arm, and he reminds scouts of Nick Foles, who switched his commitment from Arizona State to Michigan State and then left East Lansing for Arizona. So transferring is now a good sign?

What's even sillier about all this is Bridgewater had lots of decision-making responsibility at the line of scrimmage at Louisville. He took over as starter at age 18 and threw for nearly 10,000 yards over three seasons. His interception count dropped from 12 in his first year to 8 to 4. His intelligence and work ethic have never been questioned, and any concerns about his ability to beat top teams vanished more than a year ago, when Bridgewater dissected a Florida defense considered one of the best in the nation – led by coordinator Dan Quinn, who would leave after that Sugar Bowl for the Seahawks and a Super Bowl title. Savage's only comparable game came in 2013 when he took on title-bound Florida State and threw for 201 yards and two interceptions.

So what happened to Bridgewater? For one thing, he had a poor pro day. He took off his throwing gloves for the occasion – a decision that a good agent would have talked him out of – and he looked wobbly. For many draft experts, it was the first live look at Bridgewater, and it didn't go well. How that one day in an artificial football laboratory undoes three full years of actual play is hard to figure.

But that's what's happened. Experts like Mayock have looked back at the game film and found new flaws in Bridgewater: his deep balls aren't as crisp; his outside-the-hashes targets aren't as accurate. Why that didn't result in more than four interceptions last season is anyone's guess. Perhaps American Athletic Conference defenses are simply inferior. Though that hasn't hurt UCF's Blake Bortles' draft stock much.

The other worry about Bridgewater is his size. Not his height, but his heft. According to his NFL.com combine profile, Bridgewater is 214 pounds and has a "very lean, narrow frame with limited bulk." In fact, a major chunk of the "weaknesses" section of that report has to do with Bridgewater's thickness. "Long term durability could become a concern," it says, "without continued strength and weight gains."

Well, about that: Bridgewater needed jaw surgery during college and dropped from 222 pounds to 196. He's put most of that weight back on, and he's likely to add even more bulk once he gets into a nutrition program with his new team. He's only 21, and likely to get bigger as he matures. Bortles, by the way, is a year older than Bridgewater and Savage is nearly three. It's hard to argue their potential is greater than
Bridgewater's just because they have less starting experience.

And as for durability, just revisit the November night in 2012 when Louisville traveled to Rutgers with a BCS bid in the balance. Bridgewater didn't start, as he had a broken wrist and a badly sprained ankle. But he asked to go into the game when the Cardinals fell behind, and promptly rallied them from 11 points down to win. Rutgers coach Kyle Flood called it one of the greatest college performances he's ever seen.

It's easy to wonder if racism is in play here. Alex Smith's draft preview reads almost exactly like Bridgewater's and he went first overall. Now he's a veteran starter for a playoff team. But instead of something nefarious, Bridgewater's fall is more likely because draft experts gravitate to big: big arms, big bodies and big personalities. Statistics and winning are easily dismissed as products of a system. Just ask former Cal standout Aaron Rodgers.

Bridgewater isn't a big talker – there wasn't even a Heisman campaign for him – so he's not going to pump his own tires. That might be hurting him too, especially compared to the always-entertaining Johnny Manziel, who had a former U.S. president at his pro day.

But if you want an egoless, driven, smart and proven quarterback to lead your wayward franchise, you could do worse than to part with the growing majority of the draft experts and pick Teddy Bridgewater.

The consequences for those who pass on him will certainly be "measurable."

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/teddy-b...9TJCQAHxRNbK5_

Don Vito 04-29-2014 02:05 PM

Quarterbacks fall every year, we all know that. This guy is looking for attention and he will probably get it.

fredder 04-29-2014 02:22 PM

I don't agree with Bridgewater's fall but this is just dumb.

Cam went #1 in 2011.
RG3 went #2 in 2012.
The top 2 QBs drafted last year were black.

Clearly people are still racist towards black QBs.......

worldtheofend 04-29-2014 03:36 PM

You (the OP) should be banned for the sensationalist headlines and the complete misconstruing of the truth

He never said that he was dropping because of race

prock 04-29-2014 03:42 PM

Id still be stoked with Bridgewater at 8. The fall is inconceivable.

slats7 04-29-2014 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by worldtheofend (Post 3636800)
You (the OP) should be banned for the sensationalist headlines and the complete misconstruing of the truth

He never said that he was dropping because of race

The columnist plainly and recklessly played the race card to try to explain Bridgewater falling out of favor in recent weeks. Does anyone seriously believe Mayock is a racist?

Babylon 04-29-2014 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by worldtheofend (Post 3636800)
You (the OP) should be banned for the sensationalist headlines and the complete misconstruing of the truth

He never said that he was dropping because of race

Guy even bolded the part where the author brought up race. Not sure about sensationalizing anything.

Nastradamus 04-29-2014 04:33 PM

Terrible article, Jesus

worldtheofend 04-29-2014 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slats7 (Post 3636810)
The columnist plainly and recklessly played the race card to try to explain Bridgewater falling out of favor in recent weeks. Does anyone seriously believe Mayock is a racist?

No he didn't, you must have gotten low marks on your SATs

He is saying that its to infer racial undertones however he goes on to provide info that says thats not the case

:facepalm:

Don Vito 04-29-2014 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by worldtheofend (Post 3636853)
No he didn't, you must have gotten low marks on your SATs

He is saying that its to infer racial undertones however he goes on to provide info that says thats not the case

:facepalm:

Actually after reading it more carefully I see that you are right. Well not about banning anyone, but about the author's arguement not being centered around race. I don't think he needed to bring race into it at all, though.

slats7 04-29-2014 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by worldtheofend (Post 3636853)
No he didn't, you must have gotten low marks on your SATs

He is saying that its to infer racial undertones however he goes on to provide info that says thats not the case

:facepalm:

If he truly believes that race is not a factor, why bring it up at all?

SolidGold 04-29-2014 05:31 PM

Wow terrible article - grasping at straws. Geno Smith was a supposed top pick last year by all the so called experts and draftniks and he fell to the 2nd round, when he was on the field we saw why he fell. EJ Manuel was drafted ahead of Smith last year because the Bills saw a big strong passer with a better upside. Basically these teams have there reasons why they project certain players, they look for a skillset that transfers to the next level to go along with their production. This guy's argument places way to much emphasis on college production.

After teams have had an up close view of Bridgewater's ability it appears some teams have found flaws in his game. It is the same reason Savage is rising with some teams apparently, they like his skill set as it translates to the next level.

Who the **** is Eric Adelson? How did he get a job writing about the draft? Are they hiring anyone to churn out ****? If so, are they hiring because I can write better stuff than this.

worldtheofend 04-29-2014 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slats7 (Post 3636862)
If he truly believes that race is not a factor, why bring it up at all?

Its called thinking with perspective

worldtheofend 04-29-2014 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SolidGold (Post 3636893)
Wow terrible article - grasping at straws. Geno Smith was a supposed top pick last year by all the so called experts and draftniks and he fell to the 2nd round, when he was on the field we saw why he fell. EJ Manuel was drafted ahead of Smith last year because the Bills saw a big strong passer with a better upside. Basically these teams have there reasons why they project certain players, they look for a skillset that transfers to the next level to go along with their production. This guy's argument places way to much emphasis on college production.

After teams have had an up close view of Bridgewater's ability it appears some teams have found flaws in his game. It is the same reason Savage is rising with some teams apparently, they like his skill set as it translates to the next level.

Who the **** is Eric Adelson? How did he get a job writing about the draft? Are they hiring anyone to churn out ****? If so, are they hiring because I can write better stuff than this.

Stop posting and get an education

slats7 04-29-2014 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by worldtheofend (Post 3636904)
Its called thinking with perspective

No, it's called posting something inane and controversial to get page hits. No one thought race was a factor until this jerkoff wondered aloud.

E_Bird 04-29-2014 06:02 PM

Before Bridgewater's pro day, he was my 2nd ranked QB; today, he's my 2nd ranked QB.

But I did drop him out of the top 10 overall.

Bridgewater has some top-shelf attributes and some areas of concern. His pro day highlighted some of those concerns - arm strength, down-field accuracy.

But his rare traits - instincts, understanding of the game, etc. - are more difficult to find than prototypical size and/or arm strength.

SolidGold 04-29-2014 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by worldtheofend (Post 3636905)
Stop posting and get an education

ok internet tough guy.

cmarq83 04-29-2014 06:20 PM

Wow, people really cannot handle talking about race in any way. Yes, Bridgewater is not solely falling because of racism in NFL front offices. He has other issues that may or may not be a concern for scouts (poor pro day, small hands, maxed out frame, not elite level NFL arm), but in the context of a larger argument about why Bridgewater's stock has fallen I think it is fair to mention that there could be some race bias involved.

The fact of the matter is that guys like Russell, Newton, Griffin, Freeman, and Manuel, while all were picked high, all had elite level NFL tools. Usually the guys with the best tools are picked the highest, but not in all cases. Matt Ryan, Sam Bradford, Christian Ponder, and a handful of other white QB's have been picked very high on the basis of them being heady, seemingly pro ready QB's despite not having the best tools. We haven't really seen a black equivalent picked that high, whereas Bridgewater would profile as one of those type players.

I'm not saying that it's the reason he's falling, but if a writer in passing alludes that there may be some sort of racial bias involved in somebody's declining draft stock we shouldn't all lose our ****. It's a fair point to make in the context of a larger argument. There is no sense highlighting a singular sentence gpngc style, and focusing on something that isn't all that crucial to the overall point.

slats7 04-29-2014 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmarq83 (Post 3636933)
Wow, people really cannot handle talking about race in any way. Yes, Bridgewater is not solely falling because of racism in NFL front offices. He has other issues that may or may not be a concern for scouts (poor pro day, small hands, maxed out frame, not elite level NFL arm), but in the context of a larger argument about why Bridgewater's stock has fallen I think it is fair to mention that there could be some race bias involved.

The fact of the matter is that guys like Russell, Newton, Griffin, Freeman, and Manuel, while all were picked high, all had elite level NFL tools. Usually the guys with the best tools are picked the highest, but not in all cases. Matt Ryan, Sam Bradford, Christian Ponder, and a handful of other white QB's have been picked very high on the basis of them being heady, seemingly pro ready QB's despite not having the best tools. We haven't really seen a black equivalent picked that high, whereas Bridgewater would profile as one of those type players.

I'm not saying that it's the reason he's falling, but if a writer in passing alludes that there may be some sort of racial bias involved in somebody's declining draft stock we shouldn't all lose our ****. It's a fair point to make in the context of a larger argument. There is no sense highlighting a singular sentence gpngc style, and focusing on something that isn't all that crucial to the overall point.

Actually, it's not fair at all. The stigma of racism can be a career killer, so if you're going to level that charge against another human being, you better have proof when you do so, not mere suspicions. Curiously, the columnist claims that the consensus about Bridgewater has changed, but only lists Mayock as an example. For all we know, NFL front offices are still high on the guy.

Babylon 04-29-2014 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by worldtheofend (Post 3636905)
Stop posting and get an education

Just stop. We don't need your constant inuendo how the whole world is ganging up on the black QB. Gve it a ******* rest junior.

worldtheofend 04-29-2014 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Babylon (Post 3636964)
Just stop. We don't need your constant inuendo how the whole world is ganging up on the black QB. Gve it a ******* rest junior.

If thats how you took it your a moron

Ignore me and never ever reply to my posts again

worldtheofend 04-29-2014 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Babylon (Post 3636964)
Just stop. We don't need your constant inuendo how the whole world is ganging up on the black QB. Gve it a ******* rest junior.

You outta have the taste slapped out of your mouth to think I was insinuating anything dealing with race

Get rid of that Fox News victim complex you have going on there

cmarq83 04-29-2014 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slats7 (Post 3636947)
Actually, it's not fair at all. The stigma of racism can be a career killer, so if you're going to level that charge against another human being, you better have proof when you do so, not mere suspicions. Curiously, the columnist claims that the consensus about Bridgewater has changed, but only lists Mayock as an example. For all we know, NFL front offices are still high on the guy.

He never directly applied it to any individual, thus the first part of your argument is irrelevant. He didn't come out and say "Bill O'Brien is a racist because he believes that Black QB's aren't good leaders." He alluded to the fact that there could be some racial bias either consciously or subconsciously towards black QB's by in large in the NFL. That's hardly a damning indictment of anyone, and certainly puts nobody's job in danger. You're making a mountain out of less than a molehill.

He doesn't even suggest that racism is the cause. This is exactly what he said:

Quote:

It's easy to wonder if racism is in play here. Alex Smith's draft preview reads almost exactly like Bridgewater's and he went first overall. Now he's a veteran starter for a playoff team. But instead of something nefarious, Bridgewater's fall is more likely because draft experts gravitate to big: big arms, big bodies and big personalities.
He suggests that it's easy to speculate racism is in play, but than it says it's more likely a result of the bolded. You were too busy trying to be controversial, you dumbed down the argument.

Kyle472 04-29-2014 07:43 PM

http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=56737 there's already a Bridgewater thread.

worldtheofend 04-29-2014 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmarq83 (Post 3636998)
He never directly applied it to any individual, thus the first part of your argument is irrelevant. He didn't come out and say "Bill O'Brien is a racist because he believes that Black QB's aren't good leaders." He alluded to the fact that there could be some racial bias either consciously or subconsciously towards black QB's by in large in the NFL. That's hardly a damning indictment of anyone, and certainly puts nobody's job in danger. You're making a mountain out of less than a molehill.

He doesn't even suggest that racism is the cause. This is exactly what he said:



He suggests that it's easy to speculate racism is in play, but than it says it's more likely a result of the bolded. You were too busy trying to be controversial, you dumbed down the argument.

You have to remember your dealing with lowest common denominator beings here

If you even mention "race" even if you are just trying to prove a factual point they become sensitive and immediately start with the "race card" charade

If anything it exposes them for who they are


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