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-   -   Future Hall of Famers. (http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7144)

eacantdraft 04-19-2007 08:35 AM

Future Hall of Famers.
 
I love how people think every player who is retiring and has played for a while is going into the Hall of Fame.

Unless you are a true superstar during your playing days, a player is not going to get into the Hall of Fame any time soon.

Football has a huge backlog of potential Hall of Famers as it is. Look at Art Monk and he hasn't gotten in yet. Harry Carson took years to get in to the point where he wanted his name withdrawn from consideration.

The Football Hall of Fame selection method needs some serious reforms. Only 39 people pick the Hall of Famers. Only a maximum of of 6 players can be picked every year. Plus the old timers selections push the backlog of eligable players even more. And expansion has created a bigger pool of more eligable players.

Unless you are Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Brett Favre, Marvin Harrison, and maybe LaDanian Tomlinson (needs to play a few more season), there is no guarantee you will get in the first time, or even the second or third time.

This also means that players like Drew Bledsoe and Eddie George (despite what the homers and fangirls say) won't be getting in at all.

Moses 04-19-2007 08:37 AM

I don't get what your point is?

BigDawg819 04-19-2007 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moses (Post 320707)
I don't get what your point is?

His point appears to be to *****, moan, groan, whine, cry, and complain and he seemed achieve all of them.

eacantdraft 04-19-2007 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moses (Post 320707)
I don't get what your point is?


My point is everyone says this player and that player are a Hall of Famer and most of them aren't even going to get into the Hall of Fame. Certainly not with the election system set up the way it is now. Many worthy players aren't getting in, so how can unworthy candidates get in?

BigDawg819 04-19-2007 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eacantdraft (Post 320723)
My point is everyone says this player and that player are a Hall of Famer and most of them aren't even going to get into the Hall of Fame. Certainly not with the election system set up the way it is now. Many worthy players aren't getting in, so how can unworthy candidates get in?

Thank you Captain Obvious!

Addict 04-19-2007 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigDawg819 (Post 320725)
Thank you Captain Obvious!

Captain Obvious! Fighting evil by playing into their flaws, but only the ones EVERYONE can see!

Anyways. If you wrote all that just to conclude that Drew Bledsoe won't make the Hall, you really should have used those calories to... I don't know get a beer and chill.

bsaza2358 04-19-2007 09:09 AM

IMO, current players who are HOF locks:

Derrick Brooks
Ray Lewis
Brett Favre
Michael Strahan
Champ Bailey
Marvin Harrison
Peyton Manning
Tom Brady
Larry Allen

Players who will certainly get in when all is said and done:

Tony Gonzalez
LaDanian Tomlinson
Brian Urlacher
Warren Sapp
Walter Jones
Jonathan Ogden
Orlando Pace
Terrell Owens
Kevin Mawae
Zach Thomas

Note: I am putting down players with significant NFL service time who already have a legitimate HOF resume. Players like Shawn Alexander and Randy Moss need to prove more to me in terms of production before they can be considered stronger candidates for Canton. Younger guys like Shawne Merriman, Reggie Bush, Larry Fitzgerald, etc. don't have the experience or the numbers to make it, so I didn't include them.

bsaza2358 04-19-2007 09:14 AM

Oh wait, I apologize for "ruining" a really bad thread by discussing the actual proposed topic. Sorry fellas...

BigDawg819 04-19-2007 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bsaza2358 (Post 320769)
Oh wait, I apologize for "ruining" a really bad thread by discussing the actual proposed topic. Sorry fellas...

Hang your head in shame "America's Poster"........SHAME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Moses 04-19-2007 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bsaza2358 (Post 320754)
IMO, current players who are HOF locks:

Derrick Brooks
Ray Lewis
Brett Favre
Michael Strahan
Champ Bailey
Marvin Harrison
Peyton Manning
Tom Brady
Larry Allen

Players who will certainly get in when all is said and done:

Tony Gonzalez
LaDanian Tomlinson
Brian Urlacher
Warren Sapp
Walter Jones
Jonathan Ogden
Orlando Pace
Terrell Owens
Kevin Mawae
Zach Thomas

Note: I am putting down players with significant NFL service time who already have a legitimate HOF resume. Players like Shawn Alexander and Randy Moss need to prove more to me in terms of production before they can be considered stronger candidates for Canton. Younger guys like Shawne Merriman, Reggie Bush, Larry Fitzgerald, etc. don't have the experience or the numbers to make it, so I didn't include them.

I don't see how you can put Brian Urlacher on that list. He doesn't have close to the requirements needed for a HOF linebacker. Randy Moss has more business in the HOF right now than Brian Urlacher.

Also, guys like Zach Thomas, Kevin Mawae, and Walter Jones likely will never make it.

Jughead10 04-19-2007 09:19 AM

I think Ogden is pretty close to a lock.

Splat 04-19-2007 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bsaza2358 (Post 320754)
IMO, current players who are HOF locks:

Derrick Brooks
Ray Lewis
Brett Favre
Michael Strahan
Champ Bailey
Marvin Harrison
Peyton Manning
Tom Brady
Larry Allen

Players who will certainly get in when all is said and done:

Tony Gonzalez
LaDanian Tomlinson
Brian Urlacher
Warren Sapp
Walter Jones
Jonathan Ogden
Orlando Pace
Terrell Owens
Kevin Mawae
Zach Thomas

Note: I am putting down players with significant NFL service time who already have a legitimate HOF resume. Players like Shawn Alexander and Randy Moss need to prove more to me in terms of production before they can be considered stronger candidates for Canton. Younger guys like Shawne Merriman, Reggie Bush, Larry Fitzgerald, etc. don't have the experience or the numbers to make it, so I didn't include them.

In five years Will Shields.

bsaza2358 04-19-2007 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moses (Post 320775)
I don't see how you can put Brian Urlacher on that list. He doesn't have close to the requirements needed for a HOF linebacker. Randy Moss has more business in the HOF right now than Brian Urlacher.

Also, guys like Zach Thomas, Kevin Mawae, and Walter Jones likely will never make it.

When healthy, Urlacher has compliled excellent statistics. At this point in his career, he is considered the best MLB in the league, and he has been dominant the last 2 seasons. Given the amount of time he has been in the league, it is reasonable to say that with several more dominant and a few more productive seasons, Urlacher can make a case. Is he a first balloter? Absolutely not. He has a much better chance than you'd think.

Your second statement is painfully and horribly incorrect. Zach Thomas may have the weakest resume of all of the players I listed, but his production has been very impressive. When he retires, he will have over 1100 tackles, perhaps 1200. He may be a stat compiler, but he has a pretty strong case.

Kevin Mawae is one of the best Centers in the history of the NFL. He was the best at his position in the league from 1996-2004, and he was amazingly dominant. He was originally on my "locks" list.

Walter Jones would have been the best at his position most of his career, but he happened to be in the NFL when Ogden and Pace were in their primes. Jones is the best LT in the league right now, and he has a bunch more years to carry that mantle. He is a very likely Hall of Famer, but he has 3 more years of dominance and several more solid seasons to go.

princefielder28 04-19-2007 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigDawg819 (Post 320711)
His point appears to be to *****, moan, groan, whine, cry, and complain and he seemed achieve all of them.

That looks about right

bsaza2358 04-19-2007 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jughead10 (Post 320780)
I think Ogden is pretty close to a lock.

Basically, I think all the players on my list will get in. Zach Thomas might be a stretch, but his stats are impressive enough. Ogden and Pace were both incredible in their primes, though Tony Boselli was their equal before his shoulders imploded. Jones is as dominant now as those guys were.

Jughead10 04-19-2007 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bsaza2358 (Post 320796)
Basically, I think all the players on my list will get in. Zach Thomas might be a stretch, but his stats are impressive enough. Ogden and Pace were both incredible in their primes, though Tony Boselli was their equal before his shoulders imploded. Jones is as dominant now as those guys were.

I think Jones need a ring. For positions like that where you can't really quantify their dominance, in my opnion having a ring or two can really put their foot firmly in the door.

BigDawg819 04-19-2007 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by princefielder28 (Post 320795)
That looks about right

The truth shall set you free....

bsaza2358 04-19-2007 09:30 AM

I think rings mean a lot less to certain positions than others. LT's are workhorses. You look at the production of others around them to help measure their worth. To me, Hasselbeck and Alexander wouldn't be nearly as effective without Walter Jones sealing off the left side for them every play of every season. A ring would be nice, but I don't think it will hinder him.

Bengals1690 04-19-2007 09:31 AM

palmer and CJ are canton bound. trust me. ill be a homer if i want to.

Moses 04-19-2007 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bsaza2358 (Post 320790)
When healthy, Urlacher has compliled excellent statistics. At this point in his career, he is considered the best MLB in the league, and he has been dominant the last 2 seasons. Given the amount of time he has been in the league, it is reasonable to say that with several more dominant and a few more productive seasons, Urlacher can make a case. Is he a first balloter? Absolutely not. He has a much better chance than you'd think.

Your second statement is painfully and horribly incorrect. Zach Thomas may have the weakest resume of all of the players I listed, but his production has been very impressive. When he retires, he will have over 1100 tackles, perhaps 1200. He may be a stat compiler, but he has a pretty strong case.

Kevin Mawae is one of the best Centers in the history of the NFL. He was the best at his position in the league from 1996-2004, and he was amazingly dominant. He was originally on my "locks" list.

Walter Jones would have been the best at his position most of his career, but he happened to be in the NFL when Ogden and Pace were in their primes. Jones is the best LT in the league right now, and he has a bunch more years to carry that mantle. He is a very likely Hall of Famer, but he has 3 more years of dominance and several more solid seasons to go.

Urlacher isn't in the HOF right now is what I'm saying. I think he's only had two seasons where he was the best MLB in the league. That's really not going to cut it for a HOF MLBer although he does have a lot of play ahead of him. I'm not saying he'll never get in, I'm saying that as of now he hasn't done enough.

I can see both Ogden and Pace getting in, but I can't see Jones. He's the 3rd fiddle to that threesome and I can't see all three getting in.

Thomas is a big stretch. He has nice stats yes, but there's never been a season where he's been the best. He won't even get close in my opinion.

Mawae may get in but I think his reputation as a dirty player will hurt his case.

bsaza2358 04-19-2007 09:37 AM

Moses, every good offensive line player tends to have a nasty demeanor. I don't think Mawae has reputation for playing that dirty. He's not a Denver guy under Alex Gibbs. He is one of the best Centers ever in the NFL, and he will absolutely be in Canton, and deservedly so.

Jones can't be considered a third fiddle to Ogden and Pace because he came into the league just after those guys had reached their peak of dominance. Jones was never any worse than they were, but those guys got the press because they were dominant before he was in the league. Jones has been the best LT for the last 3 years at least, and he has a loooooooong way to go. In the next 2 years, both Ogden and Pace will retire. Jones will get some push from McNeill and Levi Jones for best OT in the game, but the title is his for quite some time. All 3 of those OT's will be in, and it would be a crime if it didn't happen.

I put Urlacher on the list of "likely in when all is said and done" because I know he needs more to make it. He is 29 now, and he probably has 3 more years at top physical condition. I think he's the kind of player who can remain productive into his mid-30's. I think the stats will be there in the end.

We are in agreement that Zach Thomas is a borderline case. Still, I think he has a shot down the line to make it in.

Splat 04-19-2007 09:41 AM

Still waiting to hear why Will Shields was not on your list lol.

bsaza2358 04-19-2007 09:44 AM

Will Shields just retired, so he's not a current player.

Splat 04-19-2007 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bsaza2358 (Post 320863)
Will Shields just retired, so he's not a current player.

True but he is for sure a lock if not something is wrong with how they vote.

Jughead10 04-19-2007 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bsaza2358 (Post 320863)
Will Shields just retired, so he's not a current player.

Did Seau officially retire?


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