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-   -   Is Adam Vinatieri a HOFer? (http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=889)

bigbluedefense 11-01-2006 04:39 PM

Is Adam Vinatieri a HOFer?
 
Is he a HOFer? I can't recall a kicker ever being as clutch as this guy. And I can't recall a kicker ever having as much impact on a game as Vinatieri has over the course of his career. He's hit more big game FGs than anyone. He was a legitimate SB MVP nominee. The guy is simply clutch.

Now I know that kickers are not in the HOF (outside one guy I believe who was a qb and kicker in the 30s), but I think this guy deserves to be the first kicker in the HOF. If kickers don't get in just because theyre kickers, then take the position out of the game. They are very important to the success of a team, and Vinatieri is the perfect example of it. The Pats don't win 2 of their 3 SBs without him. And he's won 2 games for Indy this year alone. Am I alone in this sentiment? And do you guys think he'll get in?

Denver Bronco99 11-01-2006 04:44 PM

i mean i dont think so...as morten anderson is the #1 scorer ALL TIME

i think that will hold vinateri out as he isnt the best kicker just the best clutch

njx9 11-01-2006 04:47 PM

and 80ish% career kicker? meh. his great playoff moments aside (a lot of players have had amazing playoff performances and won't get in), he just wasn't all that good over his entire career. if any kicker gets in, it should be morten anderson.

thegame26 11-01-2006 04:51 PM

I would put both of the anderson boys and mark mosely(who won the MVP of the league) in before him. He is simply and average career kicker over his career

bigbluedefense 11-01-2006 04:57 PM

I think when judging a kicker, you can't look at his "numbers". If that were the case, Mike Vanderjagt would be the best kicker in the game, but he is obviously not. What separates the boys from the men in terms of kicking (i know, easy joke here) is how well they perform in the clutch. Its not how many meaningless FGs you can make, its all about making the important ones.

And Vinatieri does it time and time again. He may miss you a FG when youre up 21-3, but the man is golden when youre down 3 with 2 seconds left on the clock from 50 out. Thats ultimately what you want out of your kicker. You want a guy you know can hit it when it counts. And no one ever has done it like Vinatieri. Forget the numbers, numbers don't mean jack here.

Morton Anderson has had a long career and racked up stats with it, but has he had as many big moments as Vinatieri? No. I think Vinatieri's impact on big games makes him a better candidate. The game in NE against Oakland, the 2 SBs, the countless clutch kicks in between, the man has come up big when you needed it the most.

thegame26 11-01-2006 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense
I think when judging a kicker, you can't look at his "numbers". If that were the case, Mike Vanderjagt would be the best kicker in the game, but he is obviously not. What separates the boys from the men in terms of kicking (i know, easy joke here) is how well they perform in the clutch. Its not how many meaningless FGs you can make, its all about making the important ones.

And Vinatieri does it time and time again. He may miss you a FG when youre up 21-3, but the man is golden when youre down 3 with 2 seconds left on the clock from 50 out. Thats ultimately what you want out of your kicker. You want a guy you know can hit it when it counts. And no one ever has done it like Vinatieri. Forget the numbers, numbers don't mean jack here.

Morton Anderson has had a long career and racked up stats with it, but has he had as many big moments as Vinatieri? No. I think Vinatieri's impact on big games makes him a better candidate. The game in NE against Oakland, the 2 SBs, the countless clutch kicks in between, the man has come up big when you needed it the most.


The only impressive clutch kick of his was the kick in the snow against oakland.

Zim3031 11-01-2006 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thegame26
Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense
I think when judging a kicker, you can't look at his "numbers". If that were the case, Mike Vanderjagt would be the best kicker in the game, but he is obviously not. What separates the boys from the men in terms of kicking (i know, easy joke here) is how well they perform in the clutch. Its not how many meaningless FGs you can make, its all about making the important ones.

And Vinatieri does it time and time again. He may miss you a FG when youre up 21-3, but the man is golden when youre down 3 with 2 seconds left on the clock from 50 out. Thats ultimately what you want out of your kicker. You want a guy you know can hit it when it counts. And no one ever has done it like Vinatieri. Forget the numbers, numbers don't mean jack here.

Morton Anderson has had a long career and racked up stats with it, but has he had as many big moments as Vinatieri? No. I think Vinatieri's impact on big games makes him a better candidate. The game in NE against Oakland, the 2 SBs, the countless clutch kicks in between, the man has come up big when you needed it the most.


The only impressive clutch kick of his was the kick in the snow against oakland.

Kicking game winners in the biggest game possible isn't impressive?? :shock:

Ward 11-01-2006 05:03 PM

Adam Vinatieri is important to the history of the NFL, therefore SHOULD get in. Not saying he will, just think he should.

thegame26 11-01-2006 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zim3031
Quote:

Originally Posted by thegame26
Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense
I think when judging a kicker, you can't look at his "numbers". If that were the case, Mike Vanderjagt would be the best kicker in the game, but he is obviously not. What separates the boys from the men in terms of kicking (i know, easy joke here) is how well they perform in the clutch. Its not how many meaningless FGs you can make, its all about making the important ones.

And Vinatieri does it time and time again. He may miss you a FG when youre up 21-3, but the man is golden when youre down 3 with 2 seconds left on the clock from 50 out. Thats ultimately what you want out of your kicker. You want a guy you know can hit it when it counts. And no one ever has done it like Vinatieri. Forget the numbers, numbers don't mean jack here.

Morton Anderson has had a long career and racked up stats with it, but has he had as many big moments as Vinatieri? No. I think Vinatieri's impact on big games makes him a better candidate. The game in NE against Oakland, the 2 SBs, the countless clutch kicks in between, the man has come up big when you needed it the most.


The only impressive clutch kick of his was the kick in the snow against oakland.

Kicking game winners in the biggest game possible isn't impressive?? :shock:

They were all very makeable but thats just me

Zim3031 11-01-2006 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thegame26
Quote:

Originally Posted by Zim3031
Quote:

Originally Posted by thegame26
Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense
I think when judging a kicker, you can't look at his "numbers". If that were the case, Mike Vanderjagt would be the best kicker in the game, but he is obviously not. What separates the boys from the men in terms of kicking (i know, easy joke here) is how well they perform in the clutch. Its not how many meaningless FGs you can make, its all about making the important ones.

And Vinatieri does it time and time again. He may miss you a FG when youre up 21-3, but the man is golden when youre down 3 with 2 seconds left on the clock from 50 out. Thats ultimately what you want out of your kicker. You want a guy you know can hit it when it counts. And no one ever has done it like Vinatieri. Forget the numbers, numbers don't mean jack here.

Morton Anderson has had a long career and racked up stats with it, but has he had as many big moments as Vinatieri? No. I think Vinatieri's impact on big games makes him a better candidate. The game in NE against Oakland, the 2 SBs, the countless clutch kicks in between, the man has come up big when you needed it the most.


The only impressive clutch kick of his was the kick in the snow against oakland.

Kicking game winners in the biggest game possible isn't impressive?? :shock:

They were all very makeable but thats just me

So 48 yard and 41 yard field goals to WIN the superbowl are very makeable???

thegame26 11-01-2006 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zim3031
Quote:

Originally Posted by thegame26
Quote:

Originally Posted by Zim3031
Quote:

Originally Posted by thegame26
Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense
I think when judging a kicker, you can't look at his "numbers". If that were the case, Mike Vanderjagt would be the best kicker in the game, but he is obviously not. What separates the boys from the men in terms of kicking (i know, easy joke here) is how well they perform in the clutch. Its not how many meaningless FGs you can make, its all about making the important ones.

And Vinatieri does it time and time again. He may miss you a FG when youre up 21-3, but the man is golden when youre down 3 with 2 seconds left on the clock from 50 out. Thats ultimately what you want out of your kicker. You want a guy you know can hit it when it counts. And no one ever has done it like Vinatieri. Forget the numbers, numbers don't mean jack here.

Morton Anderson has had a long career and racked up stats with it, but has he had as many big moments as Vinatieri? No. I think Vinatieri's impact on big games makes him a better candidate. The game in NE against Oakland, the 2 SBs, the countless clutch kicks in between, the man has come up big when you needed it the most.


The only impressive clutch kick of his was the kick in the snow against oakland.

Kicking game winners in the biggest game possible isn't impressive?? :shock:

They were all very makeable but thats just me

So 48 yard and 41 yard field goals to WIN the superbowl are very makeable???


Yeah

Basileus777 11-01-2006 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense
I think when judging a kicker, you can't look at his "numbers". If that were the case, Mike Vanderjagt would be the best kicker in the game, but he is obviously not. What separates the boys from the men in terms of kicking (i know, easy joke here) is how well they perform in the clutch. Its not how many meaningless FGs you can make, its all about making the important ones.

And Vinatieri does it time and time again. He may miss you a FG when youre up 21-3, but the man is golden when youre down 3 with 2 seconds left on the clock from 50 out. Thats ultimately what you want out of your kicker. You want a guy you know can hit it when it counts. And no one ever has done it like Vinatieri. Forget the numbers, numbers don't mean jack here.

Morton Anderson has had a long career and racked up stats with it, but has he had as many big moments as Vinatieri? No. I think Vinatieri's impact on big games makes him a better candidate. The game in NE against Oakland, the 2 SBs, the countless clutch kicks in between, the man has come up big when you needed it the most.

IIRC Anderson has kicked more game winning fgs than any other kicker in NFL. He also had that game winning kick that got Atlanta into the Superbowl.

bigbluedefense 11-01-2006 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Basileus777
Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense
I think when judging a kicker, you can't look at his "numbers". If that were the case, Mike Vanderjagt would be the best kicker in the game, but he is obviously not. What separates the boys from the men in terms of kicking (i know, easy joke here) is how well they perform in the clutch. Its not how many meaningless FGs you can make, its all about making the important ones.

And Vinatieri does it time and time again. He may miss you a FG when youre up 21-3, but the man is golden when youre down 3 with 2 seconds left on the clock from 50 out. Thats ultimately what you want out of your kicker. You want a guy you know can hit it when it counts. And no one ever has done it like Vinatieri. Forget the numbers, numbers don't mean jack here.

Morton Anderson has had a long career and racked up stats with it, but has he had as many big moments as Vinatieri? No. I think Vinatieri's impact on big games makes him a better candidate. The game in NE against Oakland, the 2 SBs, the countless clutch kicks in between, the man has come up big when you needed it the most.

IIRC Anderson has kicked more game winning fgs than any other kicker in NFL. He also had that game winning kick that got Atlanta into the Superbowl.

When you play as long as he has, thats gonna happen. And his most memorable kick was the one you just mentioned. As long as he's played, thats pretty much THE kick of his career. Vinatieri in a far shorter career has at least 4 kicks that were similar to that one. Think about that.

Dam8610 11-01-2006 05:31 PM

Vinatieri's is a case in which the "signature play", or in this case, plays, that certain moronic HOF voters look for would be the thing to put him over the top if he got in.

Splat 11-01-2006 05:31 PM

JAN STENERUD = First and only "pure" placekicker to enter HOF he played for the Chiefs.

http://www.profootballhof.com/hof/me...?player_id=203

yourfavestoner 11-01-2006 05:44 PM

Kickers should have their own Hall of Fame.

Ravens1991 11-01-2006 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yourfavestoner
Kickers should have their own Hall of Fame.


I like that idea.

PACKmanN 11-01-2006 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ravens1991
Quote:

Originally Posted by yourfavestoner
Kickers should have their own Hall of Fame.


I like that idea.

add punters in there too. Has a punter ever made the HOF?

njx9 11-01-2006 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense
Morton Anderson has had a long career and racked up stats with it, but has he had as many big moments as Vinatieri? No.

do you honestly remember enough of morten anderson's kicks to make that sort of statement?

i mean, ignoring most stats, anderson has BY FAR more 50+ yard field goals than anyone ever, and i find it difficult to beieve that the argument could be made that it's due to longevity. i mean, he couldn't hit from 50 if his life depended on it, and hasn't been able to for several years now (zero in the last four years, 5 in the last 7).

i don't buy that a guy who hasn't, historically, been a very good regular season kicker should get in just because of a couple of playoff appearances. unless, of course, you're prepared to argue that Terrell Davis should get in for the same reason.

thegame26 11-01-2006 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PACKmanN
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ravens1991
Quote:

Originally Posted by yourfavestoner
Kickers should have their own Hall of Fame.


I like that idea.

add punters in there too. Has a punter ever made the HOF?

there is one in it

bigbluedefense 11-01-2006 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by njx9
Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense
Morton Anderson has had a long career and racked up stats with it, but has he had as many big moments as Vinatieri? No.

do you honestly remember enough of morten anderson's kicks to make that sort of statement?

i mean, ignoring most stats, anderson has BY FAR more 50+ yard field goals than anyone ever, and i find it difficult to beieve that the argument could be made that it's due to longevity. i mean, he couldn't hit from 50 if his life depended on it, and hasn't been able to for several years now (zero in the last four years, 5 in the last 7).

i don't buy that a guy who hasn't, historically, been a very good regular season kicker should get in just because of a couple of playoff appearances. unless, of course, you're prepared to argue that Terrell Davis should get in for the same reason.

Thats a fair argument. I can't honestly say I can recall all of Morten Anderson's career, so Im wrong for saying that. But you have to agree, that Vinatieri most likely has had more historical significance with his kicks compared to Anderson. I can't say that for sure of course, but we've never seen a kicker get this much attention by the public and players alike. That in itself should validate Vinatieri as more than just a good playoff kicker. The Pats franchised him last year. Franchised a KICKER. Think about that. Obviously he's much more than just a good playoff kicker for NE to do that.

thegame26 11-01-2006 06:16 PM

[quote="bigbluedefense"]
Quote:

Originally Posted by njx9
Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense
Morton Anderson has had a long career and racked up stats with it, but has he had as many big moments as Vinatieri? No.

do you honestly remember enough of morten anderson's kicks to make that sort of statement?

i mean, ignoring most stats, anderson has BY FAR more 50+ yard field goals than anyone ever, and i find it difficult to beieve that the argument could be made that it's due to longevity. i mean, he couldn't hit from 50 if his life depended on it, and hasn't been able to for several years now (zero in the last four years, 5 in the last 7).

i don't buy that a guy who hasn't, historically, been a very good regular season kicker should get in just because of a couple of playoff appearances. unless, of course, you're prepared to argue that Terrell Davis should get in for the same reason.

Thats a fair argument. I can't honestly say I can recall all of Morten Anderson's career, so Im wrong for saying that. But you have to agree, that Vinatieri most likely has had more historical significance with his kicks compared to Anderson. I can't say that for sure of course, but we've never seen a kicker get this much attention by the public and players alike. That in itself should validate Vinatieri as more than just a good playoff kicker. The Pats franchised him last year. Franchised a KICKER. Think about that. Obviously he's much more than just a good playoff kicker for NE to do that.[/quote]

Yet he doesnt play for them anymore

draftguru151 11-01-2006 06:32 PM

I definately think he should, and he probably will. All those game winning kicks, without him the Pats don't have 3 SBs.

njx9 11-01-2006 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense
Quote:

Originally Posted by njx9
Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense
Morton Anderson has had a long career and racked up stats with it, but has he had as many big moments as Vinatieri? No.

do you honestly remember enough of morten anderson's kicks to make that sort of statement?

i mean, ignoring most stats, anderson has BY FAR more 50+ yard field goals than anyone ever, and i find it difficult to beieve that the argument could be made that it's due to longevity. i mean, he couldn't hit from 50 if his life depended on it, and hasn't been able to for several years now (zero in the last four years, 5 in the last 7).

i don't buy that a guy who hasn't, historically, been a very good regular season kicker should get in just because of a couple of playoff appearances. unless, of course, you're prepared to argue that Terrell Davis should get in for the same reason.

Thats a fair argument. I can't honestly say I can recall all of Morten Anderson's career, so Im wrong for saying that. But you have to agree, that Vinatieri most likely has had more historical significance with his kicks compared to Anderson. I can't say that for sure of course, but we've never seen a kicker get this much attention by the public and players alike. That in itself should validate Vinatieri as more than just a good playoff kicker. The Pats franchised him last year. Franchised a KICKER. Think about that. Obviously he's much more than just a good playoff kicker for NE to do that.

for sure. i dunno... i just have a hard time seeing vinatieri as a good enough career kicker to justify his inclusion. he's had a few great kicks lately, but isn't the hall about sustained greatness? i mean, just 4 short years ago, vinatieri was not only a 70% kicker, but he only made 50% from 30-39. he's only had 3 seasons in his career in which he connected with more than 85% of his kicks. clearly numbers are never anything, but i think they have to play a part here. interestingly, he's never tried more than 3 kicks over 50 in a season and never made more than 2 of them.

*shrug* i dunno. i'm just unconvinced that you can justify calling the guy one of the best kickers (really, in this case, the best) of all time based on a handful of kicks in a career of hundreds.

njx9 11-01-2006 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by draftguru151
I definately think he should, and he probably will. All those game winning kicks, without him the Pats don't have 3 SBs.

without terrell davis, the broncos are 0-6 in the super bowl. are you going to support his candidacy as well?


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