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Old 09-07-2007, 11:34 AM    (permalink
iloxygenil
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Default The Reggie Bush Rant Thread

This kid is SO overrated it drives me NUTS. I mean make all the excuses in the world for him you want, but without Payton last year Bush would have been looking like the worst pick in draft history. Without 90 catches (which mostly came out of the backfield) Saints fans would have been screaming their heads off. Payton's offense is what got Reggie the ball in positions to make plays, and that's a good coach, not a good player. He has to be in wide open field to make plays, and that means he's not a runningback. The thing that PROVES that more than anything is his quote last night talking about how you play the game in the NFL.

Talking about how you don't fight for extra yards, how you get what you can get and then just get down. Give me a BREAK, that's not a runningback's mentality. He's worried about fumbling because he said when fighting for extra yards is when he gets stripped and loses the ball. Well, guess what, you don't fight for extra yards, you get punked like you did last night against one of the most mediocre defenses you'll face all year long.

Reggie Bush is just part of the huge hype machine that comes from being the only decent team in a really bad conference. There were a few play makers there, and yes, Reggie was a HUGE one...but guess what kid, this is the NFL, not the pac10, you're not THAT fast, there were DEs running you down last night, and I'm not talking about Julius Peppers or John Abraham caliber defenders here. You can't dance around and wait for someone to screw up, because if you can make the 53 man roster, you're not going to miss very often. So you can just stand and dance all you want, but in the NFL until you get tough and gain some vision as a RB you're a bust as a RB. Good football player, prolly a very good WR/PR/KR guy...but as a RB I wouldn't let you in my backfield.

Don't wanna say I told you so after 1 season and 1 game, because their offense was just handled by a poor defense last night, and Payton will get him where he needs to be and get him touches in the open field. But man alive, I was so happy watching him try to dance around last night, since our D is a LOT like the Colts in terms of speed, minus Bob Sanders, but we also have Deangelo and better even faster LBs.
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Old 09-07-2007, 11:38 AM    (permalink
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why is this in the falcon's team discussion?


and yes, he needs to improve his vision, but he'll be fine this year. you fail to point out how the oline of the Saints got destroyed up front all game. That had alot to do with his poor play.
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Old 09-07-2007, 12:09 PM    (permalink
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Yeah...it does...but it goes in here because I HATE how overrated Reggie Bush is. He's a good WR and KR/PR but man alive as a RB he blows. I've been saying this all along. He played in the Pac10, and until he learns that NFL is faster than the Pac10 and he can't just wait for things to develop and let other people make his plays for him. Bush in space can be scary, very scary, but Bush as a RB makes me a very VERY happy man when I see him back there and not Deuce.
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Old 09-25-2007, 02:35 PM    (permalink
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Yeah...it does...but it goes in here because I HATE how overrated Reggie Bush is. He's a good WR and KR/PR but man alive as a RB he blows. I've been saying this all along. He played in the Pac10, and until he learns that NFL is faster than the Pac10 and he can't just wait for things to develop and let other people make his plays for him. Bush in space can be scary, very scary, but Bush as a RB makes me a very VERY happy man when I see him back there and not Deuce.
i hate this arguement. So apparently only good rbs can come from the SEC ACC and big 10? please... where's steven jackson from? where's MJD from? where's justin fargas from? where's marshawn lynch from?

you can't trivialize what bush did in college because of the conference he played in. They played many tough out of conference schools as well.

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Old 09-25-2007, 02:42 PM    (permalink
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i f***ing hate this arguement. So apparently only good rbs can come from the SEC ACC and big 10? please... where's steven jackson from? where's MJD from? where's justin fargas from? where's marshawn lynch from?

you can't trivialize what bush did in college because of the conference he played in. They played many tough out of conference schools as well.
Nope...they didn't...to be honest Bush was wildly successful but only because his surrounding talent was so good. Bush was fast in college...he's above average in the NFL but he's just not in that 'elite' category anymore. He's not one of the 5 fastest players in the league. He was faster than just about everyone in college.

Also the thing is those backs learned how to translate to the NFL because they are strong runners not run around and dance guys...Bush still has to learn, to say the PAC10 is as fast as the NFL would be completely foolish.

The Saints are now in trouble. Bush has to mature NOW...he has to change his game...NOW...the Saints have to have him step up. They over achieved last year, but the expectations are there, they can't afford to slip back into what they were before...a 3-6 win team...which is what they look like. Putting Brees under pressure is what killed him in SD...he's kinda like Harrington in that fact...so if they can protect him things will turn around.

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Old 09-25-2007, 02:48 PM    (permalink
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Nope...they didn't...to be honest Bush was wildly successful but only because his surrounding talent was so good. Bush was fast in college...he's above average in the NFL but he's just not in that 'elite' category anymore. He's not one of the 5 fastest players in the league. He was faster than just about everyone in college.

Also the thing is those backs learned how to translate to the NFL because they are strong runners not run around and dance guys...Bush still has to learn, to say the PAC10 is as fast as the NFL would be completely foolish.

I can't really say one thing or another about bush because as far as I know, he could never develop. But, Im just saying that the PAC-10 doesn't necessarily only produce scrub Rbs. Where as all the other conferences only produce quality tailbacks.
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Old 09-07-2007, 12:12 PM    (permalink
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This kid is SO overrated it drives me NUTS. I mean make all the excuses in the world for him you want, but without Payton last year Bush would have been looking like the worst pick in draft history. Without 90 catches (which mostly came out of the backfield) Saints fans would have been screaming their heads off. Payton's offense is what got Reggie the ball in positions to make plays, and that's a good coach, not a good player. He has to be in wide open field to make plays, and that means he's not a runningback. The thing that PROVES that more than anything is his quote last night talking about how you play the game in the NFL.

Talking about how you don't fight for extra yards, how you get what you can get and then just get down. Give me a BREAK, that's not a runningback's mentality. He's worried about fumbling because he said when fighting for extra yards is when he gets stripped and loses the ball. Well, guess what, you don't fight for extra yards, you get punked like you did last night against one of the most mediocre defenses you'll face all year long.

Reggie Bush is just part of the huge hype machine that comes from being the only decent team in a really bad conference. There were a few play makers there, and yes, Reggie was a HUGE one...but guess what kid, this is the NFL, not the pac10, you're not THAT fast, there were DEs running you down last night, and I'm not talking about Julius Peppers or John Abraham caliber defenders here. You can't dance around and wait for someone to screw up, because if you can make the 53 man roster, you're not going to miss very often. So you can just stand and dance all you want, but in the NFL until you get tough and gain some vision as a RB you're a bust as a RB. Good football player, prolly a very good WR/PR/KR guy...but as a RB I wouldn't let you in my backfield.

Don't wanna say I told you so after 1 season and 1 game, because their offense was just handled by a poor defense last night, and Payton will get him where he needs to be and get him touches in the open field. But man alive, I was so happy watching him try to dance around last night, since our D is a LOT like the Colts in terms of speed, minus Bob Sanders, but we also have Deangelo and better even faster LBs.
well first of all... Reggie Bush's game isn't running between the tackles... everyone knows that, he catches the ball, and is great in space.

Secondly... Robert Mathis and Dwight Freeney are two of the faster DEs in the league, so your point about them not being Peppers or Abraham is idiotic.
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Old 09-07-2007, 12:17 PM    (permalink
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well first of all... Reggie Bush's game isn't running between the tackles... everyone knows that, he catches the ball, and is great in space.

Secondly... Robert Mathis and Dwight Freeney are two of the faster DEs in the league, so your point about them not being Peppers or Abraham is idiotic.
Glad you think so, since I saw a white guy who was beaten by bush to the edge still catch him and drag him down after a 2 yard gain. Since you had no idea what I was talking about and just made one of the most dumbass assumptions you could have...way to go. Freeney is a 1 move DE imo, very overrated, but that makes teams double him so it allows other people to look better on their defense. And since Mathis doesn't play every down...it had nothing to do with him. But good try buddy. Oh wait...I forgot Josh Thomas is a freak of nature and runs a 4.3...wait...no he doesn't.
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Old 09-07-2007, 12:49 PM    (permalink
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It sort of surprises me how polarizing Bush is, there really doesn't seem to be a middle ground on him.

Personally, myself, I really like Reggie Bush. I want to watch every play he's on the field. And, truth be told, I can't say I lose any sleep that others feel differently. Everyone is entitled to their opinions, likes/dislikes, what have you.
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Old 09-07-2007, 12:14 PM    (permalink
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This kid is SO overrated it drives me NUTS. I mean make all the excuses in the world for him you want, but without Payton last year Bush would have been looking like the worst pick in draft history. Without 90 catches (which mostly came out of the backfield) Saints fans would have been screaming their heads off. Payton's offense is what got Reggie the ball in positions to make plays, and that's a good coach, not a good player. He has to be in wide open field to make plays, and that means he's not a runningback. The thing that PROVES that more than anything is his quote last night talking about how you play the game in the NFL.

Talking about how you don't fight for extra yards, how you get what you can get and then just get down. Give me a BREAK, that's not a runningback's mentality. He's worried about fumbling because he said when fighting for extra yards is when he gets stripped and loses the ball. Well, guess what, you don't fight for extra yards, you get punked like you did last night against one of the most mediocre defenses you'll face all year long.

Reggie Bush is just part of the huge hype machine that comes from being the only decent team in a really bad conference. There were a few play makers there, and yes, Reggie was a HUGE one...but guess what kid, this is the NFL, not the pac10, you're not THAT fast, there were DEs running you down last night, and I'm not talking about Julius Peppers or John Abraham caliber defenders here. You can't dance around and wait for someone to screw up, because if you can make the 53 man roster, you're not going to miss very often. So you can just stand and dance all you want, but in the NFL until you get tough and gain some vision as a RB you're a bust as a RB. Good football player, prolly a very good WR/PR/KR guy...but as a RB I wouldn't let you in my backfield.

Don't wanna say I told you so after 1 season and 1 game, because their offense was just handled by a poor defense last night, and Payton will get him where he needs to be and get him touches in the open field. But man alive, I was so happy watching him try to dance around last night, since our D is a LOT like the Colts in terms of speed, minus Bob Sanders, but we also have Deangelo and better even faster LBs.
Pretty much hit the nail on the head.

He's a Desmond Howard type player.
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Old 09-07-2007, 01:10 PM    (permalink
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Honestly, I think you need to calm down. It isn't the end of the world. Everyone is entitled to their opinions, just like you are to yours. I see no reason to get as upset as you get, over a player receiving much more hype than his production warrants. Just state your opinion on him, and be done with it. If he never improves and is a bust then you are right. However, if he becomes Jesus Christ in cleats, you will look like a fool. I cannot remember myself every getting as upset over anything, as you are getting about Reggie Bush being "overrated." Trust me, it isn't worth getting this angry about. Despite many people thinking the opposite of you, quite a few people do agree with you.
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Old 09-07-2007, 01:49 PM    (permalink
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I get where you're coming from on RB but I think he's still got greatness in him. I think it will take him longer to find it because he's so in love with his own crazy athleticism that he forgets to just do what needs to be done for the team first and worry about making sick moves later.

Like there was one play last night where he had an easy first down if he just dove forward for a yard but instead he tried to juke the crap out of someone and got stopped a half yard short.

In time he will learn when to try that stuff and when not to. His speed and moves are too good for him to be a total failure. Obviously he'll never be a carry-the-mail, power running type of guy but comparing him to Desmond Howard is just plain ignorant.
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Old 09-07-2007, 01:52 PM    (permalink
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I think its kind of ironic that a Falcon fan who supported Vick hates Bush because he is not too good at running between the lanes, but creates a mismatch in the passing game.

Vick was probably just as good throwing during short-medium passes as Bush is running inside, but really shines during deep passes and running, when Bush really shines on sweeps and the passing game.
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Old 09-07-2007, 02:06 PM    (permalink
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Nothing wrong with adding a little spice to a dish, some healthy discussion between fans of division rivals. :p
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Old 09-07-2007, 03:04 PM    (permalink
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I think its kind of ironic that a Falcon fan who supported Vick hates Bush because he is not too good at running between the lanes, but creates a mismatch in the passing game.

Vick was probably just as good throwing during short-medium passes as Bush is running inside, but really shines during deep passes and running, when Bush really shines on sweeps and the passing game.
stole the words from my mouth. bush is a vick. both may not be traditional to their respective positions on the field but imo, they make their team better by forcing defenses to guess what they will do. personally, even more so than payton, i think bush owes his success to mcallister. say duece doesnt come back well from his big injury in '05. that means defenses would know what the saints would be running with just bush on the field. to say you cant stand bush while being a vick a fan (or used to) is jsut hypocritical dude.
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Old 09-07-2007, 02:07 PM    (permalink
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It drives me nuts too. Al Michaels called him "the electric one" when he got the ball on a PR, it was insanity. I'm just glad the Saints are mesmerized by Bush and neglect to give McAllister touches. If they do that against the Falcons I will be so glad. It's McAllister that I fear. He actually can make runs of over 20+ yards. You know you have lousy vision when you're as fast as anyone else in the NFL and you cannot break a 20+ yard run as a RB.
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Old 09-08-2007, 05:22 AM    (permalink
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It drives me nuts too. Al Michaels called him "the electric one" when he got the ball on a PR, it was insanity. I'm just glad the Saints are mesmerized by Bush and neglect to give McAllister touches. If they do that against the Falcons I will be so glad. It's McAllister that I fear. He actually can make runs of over 20+ yards. You know you have lousy vision when you're as fast as anyone else in the NFL and you cannot break a 20+ yard run as a RB.
McAllister is the one who will win us games too, not Bush. Sean Payton is just mesmerized with all of the gimmick plays that he can think up with Bush so that is why he implements him as much as he does in the offense. If you were to take Reggie, put him in motion to where he lines up in the slot and has a linebacker covering him, then you have the mismatch you're looking for. You could also keep McAllister in the backfield so that teams don't know if you're going to dump it off to Reggie or hand it off to Deuce. It makes perfectly logical sense to do those type of things with someone like Bush in the backfield. It doesn't make sense to hand him the ball and tell him to run a sweep. Defense in the NFL are too fast for sweeps to work. The same thing with a swing pass. You get one chance to do a sweep or swing pass. If it works, great, if not then don't do it again. Never do a sweep or swing pass twice.
Sometimes it takes some good old fashioned smash mouth football to win some games and that's what the Saints game plan should have been against the Colts. Play ball control offense and ram the ball in between the tackles. They also should have never gotten out of their Cover 2 defense which they used in the first half but that is for another rant. Having the defense respect the running game will then set up the play action and also sets up those short dink passes to Bush. I'm sure that most DC's fear McAllister over Bush and that is because he has proven he is a productive back in the NFL and is more than capable of getting it done. However, he needs 20+ carries a game to do that and that won't happen with him splitting time with Reggie Bush. Bush is a good role player that can help open up the offense. He is nothing more than that. The glue is McAllister.
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Old 09-25-2007, 01:32 AM    (permalink
soybean
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It drives me nuts too. Al Michaels called him "the electric one" when he got the ball on a PR, it was insanity. I'm just glad the Saints are mesmerized by Bush and neglect to give McAllister touches. If they do that against the Falcons I will be so glad. It's McAllister that I fear. He actually can make runs of over 20+ yards. You know you have lousy vision when you're as fast as anyone else in the NFL and you cannot break a 20+ yard run as a RB.
i don't know what you're implying, the saints dont give bush any more carries than they do mccallister.
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Old 09-25-2007, 01:37 AM    (permalink
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i don't know what you're implying the saints dont give bush any more carries than they do mccallister.
but they went out of their way to get the ball to bush and seemed to completely forget deuce

no matter now, since deuce is apparently done for the year
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Old 09-25-2007, 01:42 AM    (permalink
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but they went out of their way to get the ball to bush and seemed to completely forget deuce

no matter now, since deuce is apparently done for the year
well they weren't going to give deuce 20+ carries and bush zero. Bush is in only every 5 plays or so anyways.
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Old 09-25-2007, 01:44 AM    (permalink
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Hello, full-time Reggie.
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Old 09-25-2007, 01:38 AM    (permalink
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Well if the early reports are true that Deuce McAllister re-tore his repaired ACL. We're about to see a lot more Reggie Bush than expected for better or worse, he's going to be counted on to carry the load in the rushing game along with occasional carries for Stecker, and Pierre Thomas.

With the way the Offensive line has played this season I don't think any running back would be succesful, Deuce and Bush have been struggling just to make it back to the Line of Scrimmage on most plays.
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Old 09-25-2007, 02:44 AM    (permalink
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With the way the Offensive line has played this season I don't think any running back would be succesful, Deuce and Bush have been struggling just to make it back to the Line of Scrimmage on most plays.
Yeah. And then plenty of haters will pile up... woohoo. I can't wait.
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Old 09-25-2007, 02:56 AM    (permalink
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Yeah. And then plenty of haters will pile up... woohoo. I can't wait.
Have you seen other Saints forums? I just can't take it anymore, everyone is turning on each other even respectable posters are dragging themselves down in emotional angst. There are stories of Saints fans at the Dome fighting each other, and throwing bottles. It's truly a bad time.
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Old 09-07-2007, 03:34 PM    (permalink
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The thing about Vick is we all held out that he would improve. Quarterbacks, especially ones as raw as Vick was coming out, typically take 3-4 years to improve. I stopped defending Vick when it became evident that he would never become the player he should have been. Did he really make the team better? They were fairly mediocre and quite inconsistent with him as the QB. They had one good year that was a product of a last place schedule in the NFC, when Vick had to play a quality opponent (which he didn't face until the NFCCG that's how weak the NFC was) he faltered again. Even before the dog fighting thing I was imploring the Falcons to give Matt Schaub a shot in training camp.
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